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Old 09-03-2011   #1
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Default Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

Been reading a lot of articles about this and that team leaving or trying to leave. Sometimes at the bottom of the story it seems a lot of people are pointing fingers at Austin but not really giving consitent explanations. The articles themselves don't dive into the cause either, bad journalist in my opinion. So I ask what is going on with the Big 12.
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Old 09-03-2011   #2
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

I'd say the key factor is Greed... now who is the greediest? I'll leave that to those who profess to be experts... which seems to differ according to what team they support
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Old 09-03-2011   #3
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

Think Texas got such a bigger piece of the pie that others are hurt by it.

Heard an ESPN table jockey say Texas & Texas A&M will not compete in any sports for a very long time.

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Old 09-03-2011   #4
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If the conference had started a Big 12 network a couple years ago, the Big 12 would be fine. But they didn't do that and instead let the third tier rights go to waste, thus other conferences looked more attractive monetary wise. I think that's the basic premise of the issue, but after Texas made the LHN, that killed any hopes of a conference network in which all member schools benefit. That's why I think people blame UT in this mess, because the LHN was more important than the Big 12.
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Old 09-03-2011   #5
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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Tradition =
Very very sad it had to come to this. I have tried to be as objective as possible about this subject and have tried to do more reading than talking about it, and I am with Dutch. Texas cared more about themselves than they cared about the Big 12. They are perfectly content going the way of Notre Dame and becoming an independent.

So yes, I blame Texas for this mess, but I also don't think there are many schools that would have turned down the deal Texas was given. Are they the culprits? Yes. But is it hypocritical to "hate" on them all the while knowing most schools would have done the same thing? Yes.
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Old 09-03-2011   #6
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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If the conference had started a Big 12 network a couple years ago, the Big 12 would be fine. But they didn't do that and instead let the third tier rights go to waste, thus other conferences looked more attractive monetary wise. I think that's the basic premise of the issue, but after Texas made the LHN, that killed any hopes of a conference network in which all member schools benefit. That's why I think people blame UT in this mess, because the LHN was more important than the Big 12.
Thanks Dutch, that makes a lot of sense. I never thought of the big 12 network angle.
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Old 09-03-2011   #7
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

heard the big 12 referred to as texas +8. dont have a link but heard that OU and OSU have had conversations with pac 12. either the big 12 or big east will be blown up within the next few years.
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Old 09-03-2011   #8
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

Everyone has some blame in this. The problem is nobody wants to man up and take responsibility. Texas deserves some blame with the TV deal. A&M deserves some blame for not taking the TV deal that Texas offered a few years ago. The Big XII commish deserves blame for not putting in a Conference TV deal 2 years ago.

At the end of the day, the Big XII has no real history as a conference like the SEC or Pac 10.

I predict Oklahoma, Texas, OSU, and Tech head to the Pac 16, Mizzou joins A&M in the SEC and the rest are SOL.
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Old 09-03-2011   #9
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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Everyone has some blame in this. The problem is nobody wants to man up and take responsibility. Texas deserves some blame with the TV deal. A&M deserves some blame for not taking the TV deal that Texas offered a few years ago. The Big XII commish deserves blame for not putting in a Conference TV deal 2 years ago.

At the end of the day, the Big XII has no real history as a conference like the SEC or Pac 10.

I predict Oklahoma, Texas, OSU, and Tech head to the Pac 16, Mizzou joins A&M in the SEC and the rest are SOL.
The TV "deal" Texas offered A&M a few years ago was crap and was nothing like what the Longhorn Network has turned out to be. Everyone acts like A&M got offered this amazing deal and like the fools Aggies are they turned it down. Untrue. The deal was crap and required far too much money up front for A&M to bite.

If Texas had come to A&M, or better yet the entire Big XII, when ESPN got involved, then the conference could have been saved. But Texas did what Texas, and most other schools, does best and that was look out for themselves. So A&M did the same thing and looked out for themselves.
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Old 09-03-2011   #10
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The TV "deal" Texas offered A&M a few years ago was crap and was nothing like what the Longhorn Network has turned out to be. Everyone acts like A&M got offered this amazing deal and like the fools Aggies are they turned it down. Untrue. The deal was crap and required far too much money up front for A&M to bite.

If Texas had come to A&M, or better yet the entire Big XII, when ESPN got involved, then the conference could have been saved. But Texas did what Texas, and most other schools, does best and that was look out for themselves. So A&M did the same thing and looked out for themselves.
In all Fairness, we have no idea what the details of the offer was. We know they approached A&M to discuss it, but that's about it. In any case, whats the incentive of a Texas network? All it does is tie up
The schools tier 3 rights for X years. If A&M had taken that deal they wouldn't be allowed to enter the SEC, and they would be joined at the hip with UT. F that. They prefer money over a stable conference, and OU and Neb aren't going to stand for that. A conference network means all members get the revenue, not just the big dogs, which is what happened here. OU could start their own network, but I think they would rather join the PAC or SEC.
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Old 09-04-2011   #11
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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The Big XII commish deserves blame for not putting in a Conference TV deal 2 years ago.
Dan Beebe deserves most of the blame and the rest of the blame is shared by all the schools except Nebraska. Nebraska got tired of everyone voting with Texas. For instance, when they voted on permanently moving the championship game to Dallas, Nebraska was the lone dissenting vote. So when Kansas State, Iowa State, and Baylor are left out of the super conferences they can blame themselves for not voting with Nebraska more often.
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Old 09-04-2011   #12
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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Dan Beebe deserves most of the blame and the rest of the blame is shared by all the schools except Nebraska. Nebraska got tired of everyone voting with Texas. For instance, when they voted on permanently moving the championship game to Dallas, Nebraska was the lone dissenting vote. So when Kansas State, Iowa State, and Baylor are left out of the super conferences they can blame themselves for not voting with Nebraska more often.
Nebraska voted FOR the unequal revenue distribution though. So they aren't entirely blameless.
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Old 09-04-2011   #13
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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Originally Posted by Doppelganger View Post
Everyone has some blame in this. The problem is nobody wants to man up and take responsibility. Texas deserves some blame with the TV deal. A&M deserves some blame for not taking the TV deal that Texas offered a few years ago. The Big XII commish deserves blame for not putting in a Conference TV deal 2 years ago.

At the end of the day, the Big XII has no real history as a conference like the SEC or Pac 10.

I predict Oklahoma, Texas, OSU, and Tech head to the Pac 16, Mizzou joins A&M in the SEC and the rest are SOL.
Wtf? How does that give any blame to A&M for not taking a deal to create a network? That has absolutely nothing to do with the demise of the conference, maybe it could have kept the rivalry from dying but that's it.

Once UT decided to take its third tier rights and broadcast it by themselves, they set UT apart from the rest of the conference. There's no way for the other schools to go out and negotiate a 9 school partial conference TV deal when the biggest dog isn't included. Look at how much revenue the Big 10, SEC and PAC get with their contracts including their networks. It's a ridiculous amount of money compared to the Big 12 and they all share it.

Obviously Auburn, Bama and LSU could have made their own networks and left the smaller schools out, but they didn't and unquestionably made the conference stronger and more profitable doing so. Now they are all in it together, whereas the Big 12 hasn't had that sort of comradery since they set up unequal revenue sharing. The schools always have been in it for themselves, and once a better offer comes along, they are willing to jump ship. That's why Nebraska and CU left, they got better deals, and that's why A&M is leaving too, because they know the SEC will be much more profitable than the Big 12 ever could be.
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Old 09-04-2011   #14
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

1. No revenue sharing
2. The split of tv revenue where UT, A$M, OU got the biggest chunk of the pie.
3. LHN instead of a Big XII network.
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Old 09-04-2011   #15
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

A&M, Nebraska, and OU complaining about unequal revenue sharing is hilarious. ALL the big schools voted for it, because they ALL were looking out for themselves over the likes of Iowa State and Baylor.

Last summer, when the realignment talk was happening, and Nebraska and Colorado left, OU and Texas relinquished their share of the exit fees for both schools. You know who demanded ALL of it to stay in the conference? A&M. So I don't want to hear about how Texas is greedy and that's why the conference is breaking up. Texas and OU were actually both willing to share that money, but A&M tried to force a power play (because their athletic department was in the red, lol). Ofcourse all of the small schools just said ok because it was better to lose the money and stay in a conference with Texas, OU and A&M than to go join the MWC or WAC.

Nebraska left because it got tired of being pushed around by Texas. That is actually a decade old complaint because Texas required raising academic requirements of student athletes, and all of a sudden Nebraska couldn't recruit dumb juco mercenaries to come in, dominate football, and not go to class. Nebraska becoming a nobody right when the formation of the big12 happened is not a fluke. It took them over a decade to compete, and the entire time they did nothing but hate Texas because of it. Combine that with a horrible record vs Texas, and crazy jealousy regarding the big 12 championship game a couple years back, and Tom Osborne decided to run scared.

Colorado decided that it didn't fit the culture of the big 12, and acted pre-eminently regarding realignment. The fans may think otherwise, but the school chancellors weren't just trying to escape Texas. They just saw realignment coming, and didn't want to be in the position that Kansas and Kansas State are now in; not having a seat at the table.

Now, for A&M leaving. This is where the spin starts getting really good. A&M, their homers, and joe schmoe who hears their friend say it, or hears that hack Richard Justice write about it- they would have you believe that "Texas chose money, over the stability of the conference" or something to that effect. That is spin, pure and simple. Yes, A&M is pissed about the LHN. But what are they actually pissed about- it's certainly not unequal income. They voted for that and worked the system in their favor only a year ago. What they are actually mad about is that they are a lesser program than Texas and everyone knows it. Their inferiority complex is so strong that they couldn't stand all of the attention Texas was getting, so they are going to a conference that gets more national exposure. The LHN is only the straw that broke the camels back because that's where it really sunk in that nobody cares about A&M nationally. They come off as a weird, wanna be military cult full of awkward traditions like nut holding and prancing around with swords- and the entire country knows it. Lucky for them they have their best team in 15 years and have fooled the CFB pundits that they can be a national power. Nevermind that A&M hasn't had a convincingly strong winning era in the last 30 years that wasn't immediately followed by ncaa infractions and probation. So they are riding 1 good season to an SEC invite (and don't tell them that the SEC is really just offering them to try and lure the real prize, Texas in; that one really stings). The funny part in all this is that this is precisely when A&M should stay in the big12, create some momentum, and build a brand. But instead, they are letting their inferiority get the best of them, run from Texas, join the SEC, where even their best team in 15 years is still a 4-5 loss team in the SEC. Congratulations aggies, you are getting what you want. Another 30 years of football irrelevance. It's not like history has shown what happens when this is done (*cough*, Arkansas, *cough*).

So yeah, Texas is completely to blame for this. It's all their fault that they are the #2 most valuable University in the country, and #1 within a conference. It's all their fault that Texas got an offer that no school in the country would pass up, and then accepted it (because it was within the rules of what member institutions of their own conference voted on and agreed upon). If you really want to place blame- place blame at the feet of those who didn't have the foresight to see that Texas is/was simply in better position to reap the benefits of unequal revenue sharing.
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Old 09-04-2011   #16
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A&M, Nebraska, and OU complaining about unequal revenue sharing is hilarious. ALL the big schools voted for it, because they ALL were looking out for themselves over the likes of Iowa State and Baylor.

Last summer, when the realignment talk was happening, and Nebraska and Colorado left, OU and Texas relinquished their share of the exit fees for both schools. You know who demanded ALL of it to stay in the conference? A&M. So I don't want to hear about how Texas is greedy and that's why the conference is breaking up. Texas and OU were actually both willing to share that money, but A&M tried to force a power play (because their athletic department was in the red, lol). Ofcourse all of the small schools just said ok because it was better to lose the money and stay in a conference with Texas, OU and A&M than to go join the MWC or WAC.

Nebraska left because it got tired of being pushed around by Texas. That is actually a decade old complaint because Texas required raising academic requirements of student athletes, and all of a sudden Nebraska couldn't recruit dumb juco mercenaries to come in, dominate football, and not go to class. Nebraska becoming a nobody right when the formation of the big12 happened is not a fluke. It took them over a decade to compete, and the entire time they did nothing but hate Texas because of it. Combine that with a horrible record vs Texas, and crazy jealousy regarding the big 12 championship game a couple years back, and Tom Osborne decided to run scared.

Colorado decided that it didn't fit the culture of the big 12, and acted pre-eminently regarding realignment. The fans may think otherwise, but the school chancellors weren't just trying to escape Texas. They just saw realignment coming, and didn't want to be in the position that Kansas and Kansas State are now in; not having a seat at the table.

Now, for A&M leaving. This is where the spin starts getting really good. A&M, their homers, and joe schmoe who hears their friend say it, or hears that hack Richard Justice write about it- they would have you believe that "Texas chose money, over the stability of the conference" or something to that effect. That is spin, pure and simple. Yes, A&M is pissed about the LHN. But what are they actually pissed about- it's certainly not unequal income. They voted for that and worked the system in their favor only a year ago. What they are actually mad about is that they are a lesser program than Texas and everyone knows it. Their inferiority complex is so strong that they couldn't stand all of the attention Texas was getting, so they are going to a conference that gets more national exposure. The LHN is only the straw that broke the camels back because that's where it really sunk in that nobody cares about A&M nationally. They come off as a weird, wanna be military cult full of awkward traditions like nut holding and prancing around with swords- and the entire country knows it. Lucky for them they have their best team in 15 years and have fooled the CFB pundits that they can be a national power. Nevermind that A&M hasn't had a convincingly strong winning era in the last 30 years that wasn't immediately followed by ncaa infractions and probation. So they are riding 1 good season to an SEC invite (and don't tell them that the SEC is really just offering them to try and lure the real prize, Texas in; that one really stings). The funny part in all this is that this is precisely when A&M should stay in the big12, create some momentum, and build a brand. But instead, they are letting their inferiority get the best of them, run from Texas, join the SEC, where even their best team in 15 years is still a 4-5 loss team in the SEC. Congratulations aggies, you are getting what you want. Another 30 years of football irrelevance. It's not like history has shown what happens when this is done (*cough*, Arkansas, *cough*).

So yeah, Texas is completely to blame for this. It's all their fault that they are the #2 most valuable University in the country, and #1 within a conference. It's all their fault that Texas got an offer that no school in the country would pass up, and then accepted it (because it was within the rules of what member institutions of their own conference voted on and agreed upon). If you really want to place blame- place blame at the feet of those who didn't have the foresight to see that Texas is/was simply in better position to reap the benefits of unequal revenue sharing.
Thanks for the dumb post. It was only a matter of time before arrogant t-sip brought up inferior Aggie. The only thing good about your posts is your avatar.
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Old 09-04-2011   #17
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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Thanks for the dumb post. It was only a matter of time before arrogant t-sip brought up inferior Aggie. The only thing good about your posts is your avatar.
My post is more factual and accurate than all other information on the topic on this entire message board combined, but because you can't admit your own inferiority complex, its "dumb". Hilarious.
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Old 09-04-2011   #18
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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A&M, Nebraska, and OU complaining about unequal revenue sharing is hilarious. ALL the big schools voted for it, because they ALL were looking out for themselves over the likes of Iowa State and Baylor.
That was decided long ago when the Big 12 was formed, and really has little to do with the current breakup. CU certainly wasn't getting anything out of that deal though, and given that they will make about ~18-20 mill a year in the Pac 12, there's no way they turn down that offer. Nebraska on the other hand was only getting ~14 mill a year most recently, but will be making 20-25 mill a year in the Big 10. So again, an upgrade in income because the Big 12 wasn't doing enough to generate revenue. But that's really nothing new, it has been like that since the conference was formed, so I don't think that was the deciding factor.


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Last summer, when the realignment talk was happening, and Nebraska and Colorado left, OU and Texas relinquished their share of the exit fees for both schools. You know who demanded ALL of it to stay in the conference? A&M. So I don't want to hear about how Texas is greedy and that's why the conference is breaking up. Texas and OU were actually both willing to share that money, but A&M tried to force a power play (because their athletic department was in the red, lol). Ofcourse all of the small schools just said ok because it was better to lose the money and stay in a conference with Texas, OU and A&M than to go join the MWC or WAC.
I agree the demand for exit fees is greedy, no debating that. The problem with what you're saying is that you seem to claim that has something to do with the conference breakup. Please tell me what school this exit fee demand has driven away from the conference? If nothing else, it seems as though A&M demanded that money to offset their exit fees, which they knew they would be paying in the future.

On a side note, do you have a citation for the exit fee cash being paid in 2010? (I thought it was to be paid in 2011) If not, your assertion that they are losing money that year is incorrect:

The Numbers:

2010 A&M Athletic Department Budget
Revenues $66,839,400
Expenses $60,337,063
Income $6,502.337
Operating Income less Debt $33,890

http://www.kbtx.com/sports/headlines/50904862.html

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Nebraska left because it got tired of being pushed around by Texas. That is actually a decade old complaint because Texas required raising academic requirements of student athletes, and all of a sudden Nebraska couldn't recruit dumb juco mercenaries to come in, dominate football, and not go to class. Nebraska becoming a nobody right when the formation of the big12 happened is not a fluke. It took them over a decade to compete, and the entire time they did nothing but hate Texas because of it. Combine that with a horrible record vs Texas, and crazy jealousy regarding the big 12 championship game a couple years back, and Tom Osborne decided to run scared.
Again, citation needed. I can only assume this is a common red herring going around the UT messageboards, but if your assertion is that the Big 12 raised academic standards too high for Nebraska to compete, then it would only be the biggest blunder in the history of NU to join the Big 10, which is regarded as the best conference academically speaking. Then again, that's just a logical assumption...

The conference championship being moved to Dallas is an interesting issue. It only makes sense for each conference to have a specific place for their championship games. Choosing the largest city with the greatest stadium around the conference only makes sense to me, if NU thought there was a better venue in the Big 12, then they are fooling themselves. I really think this is a specious argument at best, as the Big 10 championship will be in Indiana for the next 5 years. It's not really that much further from Omaha than Dallas is.


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Colorado decided that it didn't fit the culture of the big 12, and acted pre-eminently regarding realignment. The fans may think otherwise, but the school chancellors weren't just trying to escape Texas. They just saw realignment coming, and didn't want to be in the position that Kansas and Kansas State are now in; not having a seat at the table.
Totally agree with this. I don't blame CU at all, as I think they were scared UT, A&M, Tech, OU and OKST could take up the 5 spots in the Pac last year. Either way, they are still in a better position than that would be in the Big 12, which is good for them.

Quote:
Now, for A&M leaving. This is where the spin starts getting really good. A&M, their homers, and joe schmoe who hears their friend say it, or hears that hack Richard Justice write about it- they would have you believe that "Texas chose money, over the stability of the conference" or something to that effect. That is spin, pure and simple. Yes, A&M is pissed about the LHN. But what are they actually pissed about- it's certainly not unequal income. They voted for that and worked the system in their favor only a year ago. What they are actually mad about is that they are a lesser program than Texas and everyone knows it. Their inferiority complex is so strong that they couldn't stand all of the attention Texas was getting, so they are going to a conference that gets more national exposure. The LHN is only the straw that broke the camels back because that's where it really sunk in that nobody cares about A&M nationally. They come off as a weird, wanna be military cult full of awkward traditions like nut holding and prancing around with swords- and the entire country knows it. Lucky for them they have their best team in 15 years and have fooled the CFB pundits that they can be a national power. Nevermind that A&M hasn't had a convincingly strong winning era in the last 30 years that wasn't immediately followed by ncaa infractions and probation. So they are riding 1 good season to an SEC invite (and don't tell them that the SEC is really just offering them to try and lure the real prize, Texas in; that one really stings). The funny part in all this is that this is precisely when A&M should stay in the big12, create some momentum, and build a brand. But instead, they are letting their inferiority get the best of them, run from Texas, join the SEC, where even their best team in 15 years is still a 4-5 loss team in the SEC. Congratulations aggies, you are getting what you want. Another 30 years of football irrelevance. It's not like history has shown what happens when this is done (*cough*, Arkansas, *cough*).
Blah blah blah, Texas got a great deal. We know that. But here's something interesting to consider:

Quote:
Last year, schools received roughly $9 million each from the conference's deal with ABC/ESPN and another $7 million to $8 million from the BTN. Add revenue from bowl games, the NCAA basketball tournament and licensing, and you arrive at the estimated $22 million-a-year distribution figure that's the envy of every Division I school outside the Southeastern Conference.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...k-tv-executive

So the Big 10, without Nebraska, got 7-8 million a year for all its schools. That's a great deal, and I can only imagine that a Big 12 network deal would do just as well, if not better. Get 8 million more a year in a Big 12 network deal, and every school is making 18+ million a year, 22ish for the big schools. That's enough to keep CU from leaving, and probably Nebraska too. But nooooooo, Texas wanted its own network, and has for years, which is why B12 TV never happened. So don't try to sell me on this "Texas did what's best for them" crap, Dodds has been planning this for years, which is why the Big 12 never made it against the rules for schools to make their own networks (Unlike the Big10, PAC, SEC and ACC).


Also, you really don't give the SEC enough credit if you think they are talking with A&M in hopes of Texas joining too. If Texas wanted to join the SEC, they could do it, no question. But they don't, they want to stay in the Big 12, join the Pac 16 or go independent. I think that much is clear, and is likely in that order. The SEC sees what's coming, they know 16 team conferences are just around the corner, so they want to strike first with a Texas team, and probably grab Mizzou, UNC, Maryland, Florida State, or whoever else to expand their TV markets. They want money for their schools, because that makes them all a stronger conference.


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So yeah, Texas is completely to blame for this. It's all their fault that they are the #2 most valuable University in the country, and #1 within a conference. It's all their fault that Texas got an offer that no school in the country would pass up, and then accepted it (because it was within the rules of what member institutions of their own conference voted on and agreed upon). If you really want to place blame- place blame at the feet of those who didn't have the foresight to see that Texas is/was simply in better position to reap the benefits of unequal revenue sharing.
Funny how they put themselves in that position, it's almost as if Dan Beebe is on their side...
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Old 09-04-2011   #19
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Wtf? How does that give any blame to A&M for not taking a deal to create a network? That has absolutely nothing to do with the demise of the conference, maybe it could have kept the rivalry from dying but that's it.

Once UT decided to take its third tier rights and broadcast it by themselves, they set UT apart from the rest of the conference. There's no way for the other schools to go out and negotiate a 9 school partial conference TV deal when the biggest dog isn't included. Look at how much revenue the Big 10, SEC and PAC get with their contracts including their networks. It's a ridiculous amount of money compared to the Big 12 and they all share it.

Obviously Auburn, Bama and LSU could have made their own networks and left the smaller schools out, but they didn't and unquestionably made the conference stronger and more profitable doing so. Now they are all in it together, whereas the Big 12 hasn't had that sort of comradery since they set up unequal revenue sharing. The schools always have been in it for themselves, and once a better offer comes along, they are willing to jump ship. That's why Nebraska and CU left, they got better deals, and that's why A&M is leaving too, because they know the SEC will be much more profitable than the Big 12 ever could be.
The SEC allows schools to sell third tier tv rights. Florida for instance has a deal with the Sunshine Network.
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Old 09-04-2011   #20
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Default Re: Why is the Big 12 breaking up or in trouble?

Just found this on truth and rumors.

Pickens blames Texas for Big 12 chaos

08:22 AM ET 09.04 | While Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds professed his love for the Big 12, Oklahoma State billionaire booster Boone Pickens says the league won't last much longer. Pickens believes the Cowboys will end up in the Pac-12, with Oklahoma. He largely blames Texas' insistence on creating the Longhorn Network. "The network could have been the straw that broke the camel's back," Pickens said. Dodds "is a friend of mine," Pickens said. "But DeLoss had too many cards and he played every damn one of them. I think that's too bad. You get tired of saying 'aaah' while you get something shoved down your throat."

Austin American-Statesman
..

Read more: http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_r...#ixzz1X1C5t4dB
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