Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2011   #1
ATXtexanfan
Site Contributor
 
ATXtexanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: leander, tx
Age: 36
Posts: 3,218
Rep Power: 13230 ATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respectedATXtexanfan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default if we have a top ten defense?

if we have a top ten defense does it matter how mario plays? i'll take an 11 man unit over an all pro olb. so far everything has looked improved but everyone is all over mario. if he fails and leaves we have barwin and reid for next year and dont have to worry about his deal. i'm done with all the mario talk cause it looks like we will have an attacking D with or without him being special.
ATXtexanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011   #2
Allstar
Bona fide
 
Allstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,074
Rep Power: 18186 Allstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respectedAllstar is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Hell no it wouldn't matter how Mario plays. That would actually be an ideal situation, considering his contract situation.
Allstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011   #3
Brandon420tx
Flounder
 
Brandon420tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Age: 26
Posts: 4,067
Rep Power: 12627 Brandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respectedBrandon420tx is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to Brandon420tx
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

For someone who's done with all the mario talk, you sure started a thread that will inevitably be completely about him. Really, people are getting too hung up on Mario's performance, he's a very valuable player to have on this defense
__________________
New more casual style goalline blitz game
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/signup?ref=66361
Brandon420tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011   #4
DocBar
Hall of Fame
 
DocBar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: I'm international
Section: Channel 700-ish on NFL Sunday Ticket
Age: 44
Posts: 8,847
Rep Power: 53446 DocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

That's the best you could come up with? How about if we have a top 10 defense to go with our top 5 offense, can we threepeat in the Super Bowl?
__________________
“If you take a highly intelligent person and give them the best possible, elite education, then you will most likely wind up with an academic who is completely impervious to reality.” Halton Arp
DocBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011   #5
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 22,716
Rep Power: 123706 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXtexanfan View Post
if we have a top ten defense does it matter how mario plays? i'll take an 11 man unit over an all pro olb. so far everything has looked improved but everyone is all over mario. if he fails and leaves we have barwin and reid for next year and dont have to worry about his deal. i'm done with all the mario talk cause it looks like we will have an attacking D with or without him being special.
Since you are done with Mario talk, I do not expect any response from you, but you asked so here goes again. Of course it matters how each and every player performs. What many readers don't seem to get is Mario is different than any other player due to cap hit of apprx. $14 million and is in last year of contract. More importantly, unless he has a completely abysmal season, he should bring a very lucrative trade offer from at least a couple 4-3 teams. I have repeatedly said I am not advocating a trade but want to listen to any offer that betters Texans. I don't want to see Mario walk away after season for nothing. If he is real good, he will be offered a real sweet deal or we can acccept a trade. Texans are in the driver seat.

We only have 3 pre-season games behind us and Mario looks incrementally better, but he has not distinguished himself. His job is to blow blockers up, toss opponents aside like a tornado and cause havoc in the backfield. Same as when he was a 4-3 DE. Can he do this? I think he can. Will he is the issue.

Sure it is a team sport but #1 pick is supposed to do his job and then some whether it is a QB, RB, CB, LT, OLB or Mario Williams. I think it was very wise for Wade to hedge his bets by drafting Reed.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011   #6
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Brooks reed is a violent tackler.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011   #7
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,982
Rep Power: 119828 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I think it was very wise for Wade to hedge his bets by drafting Reed.
Drafting Reed wasn't about hedging bets. They absolutely had to find OLB help in the draft. They had 3 guys on the roster, (Williams, Barwin, & Nading) penciled in at OLB. Barwin was coming off a major ankle injury. I thought they would draft 2 OLBs, but finding Braman as a UDFA seems to be a lucky break.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 08-28-2011   #8
gtexan02
Working?
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boston
Age: 30
Posts: 15,573
Rep Power: 48121 gtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Vikings gave up a 1st, 2 3rds, and swapped a 6th for Allen. I would expect something similar for Mario.
__________________
Adios until next season. See you then
gtexan02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #9
80tothezone
Hall of Fame
 
80tothezone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,598
Rep Power: 5078 80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected80tothezone is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I got to agree with ya even though I am a fan of trading him, it isn't going to happen and the D is doing very well. So it is really a mute point, we going into the season with what we got and as a unit they look real good, don't know about top 10 but they look damn good so who really cares what we do with MW ... LONG As they put rings on their fingers at the end of the yr who really cares....

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
__________________
Thinking inside the box is not thinking, it is processing..... GET OUT OF THE BOX AND THINK!!!
80tothezone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #10
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 22,716
Rep Power: 123706 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Vikings gave up a 1st, 2 3rds, and swapped a 6th for Allen. I would expect something similar for Mario.
Man. if that was offered, I do it right after I recovered from fainting. Oh, lordy, I am off to figure a draft with two firsts, a second, three thirds...
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #11
Hervoyel
The Right Track
 
Hervoyel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 49
Posts: 14,543
Rep Power: 225674 Hervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

You draft guys to build a defense. A starting defense is composed of 11 players. If none of them are standing out statistically but your defense is in or around the top ten (admittedly unlikely but still...) then you win games and hang up your "Mission Accomplished" banner. Mario isn't the most "fluid" OLB I've ever seen and still looks kind of stiff to me but who cares. He's making his presence felt and other players are benefitting from it. He's not accumulating stats at the rate we're accustomed to but notice that nobody is in a hurry to be the first team to ignore Mario Williams.

I suspect that the first offense that tries to get away with that will pay dearly.
__________________
A wise man once said "...well at this point it's all been hashed out and you either see it or don't. Hoping for a win next week" - HTown2ATX
Hervoyel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #12
prostock101
Mr. Big
 
prostock101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 471
Rep Power: 275 prostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respectedprostock101 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

"His job is to blow blockers up, toss opponents aside like a tornado and cause havoc in the backfield. Same as when he was a 4-3 DE."

I'm sorry, but when did he ever do this? Someone please show me a clip of him in "tornado mode". And while you're at it. Show me all these double teams he was supposedly up against as a DE.
prostock101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #13
welsh texan
Lest we forget
 
welsh texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Llandudno, Wales
Age: 26
Posts: 1,621
Rep Power: 22601 welsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Even if Mario doesn't have a big statistical impact you know that teams have to gameplan for him anyway, and that opens things up for others around him. I think the Texans have the right idea with him this season, there isn't really a lot to lose by letting him play it out.

If he isn't worth the money he's offered elsewhere to our team, let him walk.

I'd rather have 2nd year Brooks Reed starting OLB than Rookie Brooks Reed anyway, he'll have more time to develop and similar to Barwin's rookie season he'll have his chance to make an impact.
__________________
They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the gowing down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.
welsh texan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #14
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 33,339
Rep Power: 194858 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXtexanfan View Post
if we have a top ten defense does it matter how mario plays? i'll take an 11 man unit over an all pro olb. so far everything has looked improved but everyone is all over mario. if he fails and leaves we have barwin and reid for next year and dont have to worry about his deal. i'm done with all the mario talk cause it looks like we will have an attacking D with or without him being special.
If we have a top ten defense... then throw in a badass Mario.... we'll have the greatest defense of All TIME
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #15
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 22,716
Rep Power: 123706 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
You draft guys to build a defense. A starting defense is composed of 11 players. If none of them are standing out statistically but your defense is in or around the top ten (admittedly unlikely but still...) then you win games and hang up your "Mission Accomplished" banner. Mario isn't the most "fluid" OLB I've ever seen and still looks kind of stiff to me but who cares. He's making his presence felt and other players are benefitting from it. He's not accumulating stats at the rate we're accustomed to but notice that nobody is in a hurry to be the first team to ignore Mario Williams.

I suspect that the first offense that tries to get away with that will pay dearly.
I don't care so much about statistics as very misleading but I do watch the player. If any are not playing as he should, it is time to consider a replacement.
If Mario makes his presence known and others create the havoc, cool beans. I need to see a bit more impact from him and soon.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #16
XI CMURDER IX
Gig 'em
 
XI CMURDER IX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: College Station, Texas
Posts: 548
Rep Power: 1517 XI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respectedXI CMURDER IX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If we have a top ten defense... then throw in a badass Mario.... we'll have the greatest defense of All TIME
Even with Cream Jackson!?!?!?!?!
XI CMURDER IX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #17
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 22,716
Rep Power: 123706 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prostock101 View Post
"His job is to blow blockers up, toss opponents aside like a tornado and cause havoc in the backfield. Same as when he was a 4-3 DE."

I'm sorry, but when did he ever do this? Someone please show me a clip of him in "tornado mode". And while you're at it. Show me all these double teams he was supposedly up against as a DE.
I said it is his job, never said he was or was not doing the job.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #18
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 22,716
Rep Power: 123706 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
Even if Mario doesn't have a big statistical impact you know that teams have to gameplan for him anyway, and that opens things up for others around him. I think the Texans have the right idea with him this season, there isn't really a lot to lose by letting him play it out.

If he isn't worth the money he's offered elsewhere to our team, let him walk.

I'd rather have 2nd year Brooks Reed starting OLB than Rookie Brooks Reed anyway, he'll have more time to develop and similar to Barwin's rookie season he'll have his chance to make an impact.
But see this is the point that I and others bring up, we don't want him to just walk. We want something for him. If he is offered a long term contract beginning at $12m next season and say 5 years $75m & we don't match, I want something in return.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #19
mussop
Hall of Fame
 
mussop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,082
Rep Power: 92801 mussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
You draft guys to build a defense. A starting defense is composed of 11 players. If none of them are standing out statistically but your defense is in or around the top ten (admittedly unlikely but still...) then you win games and hang up your "Mission Accomplished" banner. Mario isn't the most "fluid" OLB I've ever seen and still looks kind of stiff to me but who cares. He's making his presence felt and other players are benefitting from it. He's not accumulating stats at the rate we're accustomed to but notice that nobody is in a hurry to be the first team to ignore Mario Williams.

I suspect that the first offense that tries to get away with that will pay dearly.
Really? Seriously? Really? This is like the 5 time I have read this type post. How are you coming up with this?
__________________
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots." Albert Einstein
mussop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011   #20
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 33,339
Rep Power: 194858 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: if we have a top ten defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
But see this is the point that I and others bring up, we don't want him to just walk. We want something for him. If he is offered a long term contract beginning at $12m next season and say 5 years $75m & we don't match, I want something in return.

So why don't we lock him up now?

Guarantee him $40million, $14 million signing bonus lock him up for the next 3 years or so. If he doesn't curl your toes as an OLB, I'm sure well still get good offers for him as a 4-3 DE.

The $14 million bonus would equate to the same cap hit we're taking this year.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger