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Old 08-21-2011   #1
76Texan
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Default The battle for #2 CB is on

And so far KJ is ahead.

In the Jets game, KJ gave up a 6yd catch playing off-man and an 11-yd slant.
Allen gave up a 5-yd catch playing off-man and a 12yd slant.

Pretty much a wash.

In the Saints game, KJ made the tackle on a 9yd pass to Moore in the outside flat on the second play, but that was in zone. The Texans' scheme simply didn't have a defender close enough to defend the play better.

Allen made a tackle on a 19yd pass to Moore in Cover 3.
Allen lined up on Moore, but did not squeeze the skinny post route.
I would chalk this one to Manning or split the responsibility between the two.
Those who wants to see their CB to "man up" would have to put this one on Allen though.

On the 56yd TD pass to Morgan, KJ simply didn't follow the receiver.
It looks like he was playing underneath all the way.
Replay shows that Manning bit a head fake by the receiver Morgan (pretending to cut behind KJ to the outside.)
In this coverage call (if there was no miscommunication involved), this one was on Manning.

On the 43-yd pass to Meachem (which could have been a 51-yd TD easily), Allen was learning the back pedal anew and it showed he wasn't very good at it.
From the replay, Yeap, Allen "fell down" comig off his backpedal and allowed the receiver to run free to the outside.
The replay is from the Saints feed; the Texans' feed didn't have it
- Spencer Tilman probably deleted it intentionally to cover up for his boy Allen

Screen shots will follow when I have some time.
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Old 08-22-2011   #2
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Default

On the long pass play, I think kj did the wrong thing. But manning cannot let a guy get up over the top of him like that regardless.

I think at this point it's still not decided, but in curious why you left out the two pass break ups by Allen, especially the one on the slant route near the end zone?

And you think kj is only slightly ahead? Of a scrub that spends more time on the floor than he does?

If kj is really good and better than many think, why is there even competition going in there? Maybe they are closer in play level than some thought?

I think that it's not decided at this point, but I will say that Kareem has stepped his game up. He looks a lot more confident and for the most part he's covered well. I'd still like to see him get his hands on some passes, but I'm happy that he hasnt been a huge liability.
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Old 08-22-2011   #3
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Basing things off of our 2 preseason games alone, I'd agree that KJ is winning.
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Old 08-22-2011   #4
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

76, don't you think its a little harsh to be calling out KJ and labelling him as even-stevens with the first round bust off the street?

Give him a break man
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Old 08-22-2011   #5
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Being 5 years younger, I think it's in the franchise's best long term interest to have Kareem win this battle out.

Studying how Joseph goes about his business will also certainly help out.

Besides, if KJ doesn't pick it up, he may be following Allen's career path in the not too distant future.
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Old 08-22-2011   #6
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
On the 56yd TD pass to Morgan, KJ simply didn't follow the receiver.
It looks like he was playing underneath all the way.
Replay shows that Manning bit a head fake by the receiver Morgan (pretending to cut behind KJ to the outside.)
In this coverage call (if there was no miscommunication involved), this one was on Manning.
According to Kubiak, there was a mistake. They were playing quarters and someone (like KJ, I think) thought they were playing halves.

In halves, KJ would have had the underneath and Manning would have had the deep zone. In quarters, that route looks like it's right along the seam but KJ should have taken that guy. Manning probably shouldn't have allowed the guy to get deeper than him but I don't think it was strictly his responsibility on that one.

So I blame KJ on that one.
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Old 08-22-2011   #7
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

I'm glad someone made a KJ thread because IMO all that matters is he has improved from last season. He didn't look great in the Saints or Jets game, but he didn't look bad either.

Overall he's had two pretty quiet games, which for a CB is a very good thing. It did look like on that one TD in the Saints game there was some miscommunication as the guy went right past him and he let him go, but that's what Preseason is for to get those things worked out.

I think KJ has looked better thus far. Allen was simply burned on that Meachem TD and that just simply can't do.
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Old 08-22-2011   #8
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

KJ is good at all the shallow stuff. He's very much like Dunta Robinson, though I think DR was a bit better at deeper stuff than KJ is at this point.

If a WR catches a slant or a curl or some other quick route, KJ is pretty solid in the tackling area of playing CB out there.

But if he has to cover large swaths of field, running WITH a WR and keeping in the better position the whole time...he seems to lose focus and ends up trailing the WR too far. And he doesn't have the twitch speed to make up those lost steps. IMO, of course.

I'd like to see KJ being allowed to jam the WR at the line, but at snap he gets to drop back quickly and one of our LBs also drops back to cover a shallow area where the WR is at...while KJ is preparing for deeper moves the WR might make. Then the LB can continue to pursue the short pass to that WR, or pass him off to KJ if a RB wheels out to that side and the LB has to cover the safety valve RB on that play (if there is one).

You're just going to have to protect the guy with more than pure Safety help from Manning or Quin. Otherwise, IMO, teams will exploit Manning/Quin always helping KJ out. It'll be Pick Your Poison time out there.

To me, Jason Allen should be out there as much as we can stand to see him out there. At least in the 2011 season, and allow KJ to slow down and pick up the 3-4 system WP is teaching here. Just my $0.02 though.
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Old 08-22-2011   #9
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

As long as KJ side is pretty quiet like last 2 preseason games, I am OK with it. Glad this isn't for #1 CB battle which would have been the case for last season.

Go Texans!!!
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Old 08-22-2011   #10
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

On that bomb to morgan, it appeared to be cover 3 or quarters. In any case, unless there a guy threatening the flat,the defender carriies the wr.
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Old 08-22-2011   #11
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
On that bomb to morgan, it appeared to be cover 3 or quarters. In any case, unless there a guy threatening the flat,the defender carriies the wr.
In his day after presser, Kubiak said they were actually in halves but somebody thought they were in quarters. I'm much of an X's and O's type person but I think halves means the receiver was the CB's responsibility.
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Old 08-22-2011   #12
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Is the battle for who is playing better or who sucks less?
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Old 08-22-2011   #13
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allstar View Post
Basing things off of our 2 preseason games alone, I'd agree that KJ is winning.
I agree, and did Manning look to either be slow afoot, slow flip, or slow decision on that play?
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Old 08-22-2011   #14
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

So in the 3.5 seconds it's been since your last "KJ is a future HOF CB" thread he's gone from future HOF CB to greatest of all times!!!

GREAT news!!

Except.....

2 preseason games does not a bad rookie season undo. To be honest, it looks as if he has stepped his game up. Which is good but that's what is supposed to happen, so it's not that big of a check mark. The coverage units have been satisfactory to me so far and it's been with Allen at the top. KJ doesn't just need to be ahead by a little. KJ needs to go big, bad wolf and blow this door down.

Look, I'll be stoked IF it happens but we don't need another thread tomorrow or next week or until the games start counting about the baby steps Kareem is a year late on.
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Old 08-22-2011   #15
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

From what I've seen, Jackson has improved from last year. And this past game seemed to be more professional looking than the previous preseason game. At this point, that's all I'm really asking for. I want to see steady improvement from Jackson and Mario (among other players).

He's been beat a few times and he's blanketed his receiver some. That penalty Quin got, the contact before the throw, where he tripped up on the TE.... Jackson was on his receiver the entire way down the field and to the endzone. I'm cautiously optimistic that he's progressing.

Allen to me is not a special CB and I think most of us like him because he's a little more consistent than Jackson. He's a solid corner. I'm hoping Joseph really looks like a legit #1 and that it helps Allen and Jackson mature on this team. When Allen got beat I was like 'well I think Jackson is in the lead now'. Then a couple plays later Allen had that GREAT pass breakup on the slant route and was thinking 'well I think Allen just went back in the lead!' LOL

All I want to see is steady improvement. I want to see Jackson continue learning, developing and getting comfortable. If he supplants Allen halfway through the season and becomes an adequate starting #2 corner then that's all we need and I'll be happy.
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Old 08-22-2011   #16
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Having Allen and Jackson fight it out for #2 CB is like fighting over Rosie O'Donnell or Janet Reno to be your next girlfriend.
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Old 08-22-2011   #17
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherstang84 View Post
In his day after presser, Kubiak said they were actually in halves but somebody thought they were in quarters. I'm much of an X's and O's type person but I think halves means the receiver was the CB's responsibility.
I thought it was the other way around. i thought they were in quarters but someone thought they were in halves.

If they were in halves, then KJ played it right and it was Manning's man. KJ had the underneath zone and had to hand off his guy to Manning.

If they were in quarters, then KJ played it wrong and should have stayed on the guy but Manning shouldn't have let the guy get past him, either. KJ would have had the deep right side of the field and Manning would have the deep zone in the right middle of the field.
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Old 08-22-2011   #18
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

On the long td, home boy was fast. Even without a MA, it's tough to stop very fast.
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Old 08-22-2011   #19
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

I think the battle needs to go between McMannis and Allen. McMannis is the only one I see making a play every week.
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Old 08-22-2011   #20
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Default Re: The battle for #2 CB is on

Battle? Maybe a "my daddy can whip your daddy" name calling.
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