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Old 08-18-2011   #1
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Default Can Texans win without head coach?

Mods may merge this with "is this Texans year" and I almost posted this there. I think it may be a bit different so we will see.

1st, I want to say I was a big fan and defender of Kubiak for years but he pretty much lost me last season. Bringing Phillips aboard who has a tremendous draft and free agency signing period. SMith may have pulled in some UDFA also (Braman for one).

If Gary (as an offensive coordinator) can keep the O reving and scoring and nothing suggest yet he cannot (ok first pre-season game starters looked rusty) AND Wade's D does what he has historically shown, Texans should be in playoffs and go beyond first round.

*Note that Robert McNair surprised many with the approach this off season getting Manning and Joseph. If Texans win but Gary (as a head coach) looks unsure or makes several poor calls; will McNair go looking?
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Old 08-18-2011   #2
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

This thread could closely follow the earlier one I posted asking if Kubiak could be NFL Coach of Year. For those unaware, I queried if Texan go deep in play offs could Gary win the award that is based on the past season not previous ones.

As of now, I think if team wins 10 games the owner will proudly point to his wise choice of head coach.
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Old 08-18-2011   #3
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Mods may merge this with "is this Texans year" and I almost posted this there. I think it may be a bit different so we will see.

1st, I want to say I was a big fan and defender of Kubiak for years but he pretty much lost me last season. Bringing Phillips aboard who has a tremendous draft and free agency signing period. SMith may have pulled in some UDFA also (Braman for one).

If Gary (as an offensive coordinator) can keep the O reving and scoring and nothing suggest yet he cannot (ok first pre-season game starters looked rusty) AND Wade's D does what he has historically shown, Texans should be in playoffs and go beyond first round.

*Note that Robert McNair surprised many with the approach this off season getting Manning and Joseph. If Texans win but Gary (as a head coach) looks unsure or makes several poor calls; will McNair go looking?
Highly doubtful that Kubiak goes anywhere if this team makes the playoffs or finishes with a 10-6 or better record.

Gary is McNairs guy ..... He has a lot of faith in him and the fact that he is still here after last season should tell you that.

Last years defensive failures are more the fault of GM Rick Smith not fixing the back end. He left Kubiak with a bunch of kids in the secondary and blew the pick on KJ to boot .... Gary did and said what he had to do under the circumstances.

Point blank , no one in the NFL holds himself more accountable than Gary ....
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Old 08-18-2011   #4
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Highly doubtful that Kubiak goes anywhere if this team makes the playoffs or finishes with a 10-6 or better record.

Gary is McNairs guy ..... He has a lot of faith in him and the fact that he is still here after last season should tell you that.

Last years defensive failures are more the fault of GM Rick Smith not fixing the back end. He left Kubiak with a bunch of kids in the secondary and blew the pick on KJ to boot .... Gary did and said what he had to do under the circumstances.

Point blank , no one in the NFL holds himself more accountable than Gary ....
The bolded eventually irritated many fans and was discussed on this MB as Kubiak kept repeating "it was on" him. Do you think he will change that approach? Not the being accountable but voicing it with no plan on how to be better.
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Old 08-18-2011   #5
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

There has been no accountability within the Texans organization as far as the on the field product goes. Otherwise Gary would've been fired after the 2009 season. (The 2nd yr that Gary/BOBBY said this is the yr the team was going to make the playoffs)

Hopefully this will change this yr. But they are going to have to prove it on the field.

To answer your question, no I dont believe the Texans can win a SB with Gary as HC. Of course the Colts won one in spite of Dungy. So I guess anything is possible.
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Old 08-18-2011   #6
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
The bolded eventually irritated many fans and was discussed on this MB as Kubiak kept repeating "it was on" him. Do you think he will change that approach? Not the being accountable but voicing it with no plan on how to be better.
I'd like to add two things that I've spoken with a player on defense about (names will not be disclosed).

1. The softness issue - I've historically been on the fence with the 'team softness' issue. From what was said, most of the players on this team play hard, hit hard and are not "soft". There were a couple last year that did not play like they were focused every single day on winning the superbowl. What this team lacked last year was not the physical toughness... they weren't soft in that regard... it was the killer instinct/the mental toughness. Having the mental attitude to crush your opponent every snap of the game and never let up. Some players are not on this team anymore because of that. We've added several integral pieces that enbody this quality. MENTAL TOUGHNESS.

2. Kubiak - Gary is not the same coach in the locker room as he is in front of the public camera. Don't be fooled that he is soft on players or does not hold them accountable. He deeply cares about his players but don't mistake that for softness.
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Old 08-18-2011   #7
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

I do not know what is wrong with the Texans, but something is. And whatever that something actually is, I blame the head coach and GM for it. We are in our 10th year now and the best we have to show for that is ONCE the team was 9-7. Once.
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Old 08-18-2011   #8
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Highly doubtful that Kubiak goes anywhere if this team makes the playoffs or finishes with a 10-6 or better record.

Gary is McNairs guy ..... He has a lot of faith in him and the fact that he is still here after last season should tell you that.

Last years defensive failures are more the fault of GM Rick Smith not fixing the back end. He left Kubiak with a bunch of kids in the secondary and blew the pick on KJ to boot .... Gary did and said what he had to do under the circumstances.

Point blank , no one in the NFL holds himself more accountable than Gary ....
Just...wow.

Guess Gary get's off totally free then. Nothing is his fault. Ever. Never mind the defensive coordinator HE HIRED (this third in five years, btw).

Look, people, the NFL is designed to turn around teams in four, maybe five years. By "turn around" I mean taking a terrible team and getting them into the playoffs. Despite what you guys think, it is do-able.

At SOME point, someone is going to have to look at the fact that we've changed a) offensive coordinators, b) defensive coordinators, c) quarterbacks, d) various assistant coaches and realize that we need to take a firm look at the person who is the head coach.

At some point, something has to give. Gary just can't continue giving McNair excuses and firing people. Someone has to look at his job performance at some point.
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Old 08-18-2011   #9
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Mods may merge this with "is this Texans year" and I almost posted this there. I think it may be a bit different so we will see.

1st, I want to say I was a big fan and defender of Kubiak for years but he pretty much lost me last season. Bringing Phillips aboard who has a tremendous draft and free agency signing period. SMith may have pulled in some UDFA also (Braman for one).

If Gary (as an offensive coordinator) can keep the O reving and scoring and nothing suggest yet he cannot (ok first pre-season game starters looked rusty) AND Wade's D does what he has historically shown, Texans should be in playoffs and go beyond first round.

*Note that Robert McNair surprised many with the approach this off season getting Manning and Joseph. If Texans win but Gary (as a head coach) looks unsure or makes several poor calls; will McNair go looking?
I hate these IF, IF types of threads. Let's play some real games before we start all the speculating and the if, if stuff. It is going to be what it is. I am excited about Sept. 11 arriving and getting to go to the games and see how the season unfolds. We are undefeated, baby. LOL. Enjoy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Just...wow.

Guess Gary get's off totally free then. Nothing is his fault. Ever. Never mind the defensive coordinator HE HIRED (this third in five years, btw).

Look, people, the NFL is designed to turn around teams in four, maybe five years. By "turn around" I mean taking a terrible team and getting them into the playoffs. Despite what you guys think, it is do-able.

At SOME point, someone is going to have to look at the fact that we've changed a) offensive coordinators, b) defensive coordinators, c) quarterbacks, d) various assistant coaches and realize that we need to take a firm look at the person who is the head coach.

At some point, something has to give. Gary just can't continue giving McNair excuses and firing people. Someone has to look at his job performance at some point.
I don't think there is any doubt that Gary's job is on the line this year. He needs to put a quality, focused product on the field week after week. Can he do it? I don't know. But I am rooting for him to succeed, not fail.
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Old 08-18-2011   #10
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by GlassHalfFull View Post
I hate these IF, IF types of threads. Let's play some real games before we start all the speculating and the if, if stuff. It is going to be what it is. I am excited about Sept. 11 arriving and getting to go to the games and see how the season unfolds. We are undefeated, baby. LOL. Enjoy it.



I don't think there is any doubt that Gary's job is on the line this year. He needs to put a quality, focused product on the field week after week. Can he do it? I don't know. But I am rooting for him to succeed, not fail.
I am rooting for the TEAM to succeed. The Texans as a team is more important than Gary, the coach.

Are we sure his job is on the line? It appears that they do have a sense of strong urgency, based on their moves in free agency. But a fear that the "lockout" excuse is waiting in the wings, ready to be used to justify another poor showing.

I don't want to get into a long, protracted Gary Kubiak debate. There are enough of those threads on there, and all they do is get repetitive. I'm just saying we have to keep the big picture in mind, and remember that this guy has had enough time and resources to do his job.
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Old 08-18-2011   #11
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
I am rooting for the TEAM to succeed. The Texans as a team is more important than Gary, the coach.

Are we sure his job is on the line? It appears that they do have a sense of strong urgency, based on their moves in free agency. But a fear that the "lockout" excuse is waiting in the wings, ready to be used to justify another poor showing.

I don't want to get into a long, protracted Gary Kubiak debate. There are enough of those threads on there, and all they do is get repetitive. I'm just saying we have to keep the big picture in mind, and remember that this guy has had enough time and resources to do his job.
The team is my priority also, I just am not separating the two at this point.

As far as are we sure, if by we you mean the message board, who knows. There are as many opinions on here are there are posters. I am sure. But what do I know? Nada. Just a fan. And I agree that the last thing we need is another Gary debate. I thought twice before posting in here at all, broke my normal policy of ignoring these types of threads. Should have gone with my first instinct.
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Old 08-18-2011   #12
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

A lot of teams have won in situations where the head coach was more involved in one side of the ball than the other. The key is getting into a situation where the DC on the other side of the ball is able to hold up his end.

With the Buccaneers, as long as Dungy was there, they were going to have problems because all the focus was on the defensive side of the ball. When Dungy left, you got into a situation where it was Gruden vs. Kiffen and that turned into a Super Bowl even if it didn't last long.

With the Ravens, Billick was the offense guy and the defense was its own thing. Billick was never able to recreate the offensive juggernaut he'd built in Minnesota but at least he was able to put up enough points and stay out of the defense's way to let it do what it did.

With the Saints, Payton needed to have the good DC to offset his offensive mnd. With the Colts, Dungy was more of a defensive guy and left the offense to Peyton and Moore.

Hopefully, now that we've got Wade, we can get into that same sort of split and attain the same sort of balance.

Can we win big with Kubiak as the HC and him concentrating more on the offense? Definitely. It's been done before and it will be done again.

Will we? I have my doubts.
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Old 08-18-2011   #13
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post

2. Kubiak - Gary is not the same coach in the locker room as he is in front of the public camera. Don't be fooled that he is soft on players or does not hold them accountable. He deeply cares about his players but don't mistake that for softness.
Im not sure you know how truthful that statement is .... Good post.

The fact that Gary deflects attention away from his players in front of the media is one thing. Notice this team has no media circus surrounding it - Thats because they keep it in house. You want circus sideshow .... watch the Jets ....
Thats what the average fan doesnt see which might give them the idea Gary is soft .... Close the door behind you on the way into that mans office and the Mr Niceguy suddenly left the building.
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Old 08-18-2011   #14
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Just...wow.

Guess Gary get's off totally free then. Nothing is his fault. Ever. Never mind the defensive coordinator HE HIRED (this third in five years, btw).

Look, people, the NFL is designed to turn around teams in four, maybe five years. By "turn around" I mean taking a terrible team and getting them into the playoffs. Despite what you guys think, it is do-able.

At SOME point, someone is going to have to look at the fact that we've changed a) offensive coordinators, b) defensive coordinators, c) quarterbacks, d) various assistant coaches and realize that we need to take a firm look at the person who is the head coach.

At some point, something has to give. Gary just can't continue giving McNair excuses and firing people. Someone has to look at his job performance at some point.
Yes but if the team wins consistently, will anyone including McNair insist on improving the head coach position?
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Old 08-18-2011   #15
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by GlassHalfFull View Post
I hate these IF, IF types of threads. Let's play some real games before we start all the speculating and the if, if stuff. It is going to be what it is. I am excited about Sept. 11 arriving and getting to go to the games and see how the season unfolds. We are undefeated, baby. LOL. Enjoy it.



I don't think there is any doubt that Gary's job is on the line this year. He needs to put a quality, focused product on the field week after week. Can he do it? I don't know. But I am rooting for him to succeed, not fail.
So you're only concerned about W-L column and care nothing about the players, coaches, scouts, trainers or owner or how the wins are achieved?
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Old 08-18-2011   #16
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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So you're only concerned about W-L column and care nothing about the players, coaches, scouts, trainers or owner or how the wins are achieved?
At the end of the day, my friend, scoreboard is the only stat that really matters.

Most of y'all know that I've been hard on Gary, and I did not think he either earned or deserved to be retained in 2011. However, due to the obvious implications of the lockout and implementing a brand new staff overhaul, I can understand McNair's logic in keeping him for another season.

In spite of my own reservations about Gary as HC, I am as optimistic this season as I have been in a long time. If that optimism is misplaced, then what can I say? But, I see things that allow me to have hope, including the addition of Wade and quite a few defensive players that have the potential to really give us a defense that can defend leads and even win some games. And let's face it, Gary has a great offense.

Besides, we're fans! Short for fanatic, we are the reason why they play this game! If we can't get excited about a new season, and must continually blast the team for sins of the past, then what is the point? All teams are 0-0 right now, so anything is possible. We can debate probabilities, and we will, but we cannot deny that we have as good a shot of seeing something wonderful happen this season as any other season in our 10 year history.

So if I can do it, Texans faithful, so can you! Take the leap!!
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Old 08-18-2011   #17
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

Coach is getting fired if they don't make the playoffs this year. They are way too talented not to.
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Old 08-18-2011   #18
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

I am just in wait and see mode which means not too high and not too low right now.
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Old 08-18-2011   #19
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
So you're only concerned about W-L column and care nothing about the players, coaches, scouts, trainers or owner or how the wins are achieved?
Interesting extrapolation from what I have posted so far. But since you cared enough to ask, I will care enough to answer. Sadly, my answer will be long, involved and off point. However, I promise I will get to the point eventually.

If you care to remember (hehehe, see what I did there), I was objecting to the word IF in the original post and the subsequent theoretical out comings that may or may not ever come to pass.

My life philosophy is not to worry about the IFs, to me ifs and coulda's or shoulda's are counterproductive and a waste of my time and energy. I take care of what I have control of, worry about what is in my power to influence, and leave the rest to a higher power.

As I extrapolate that philosophy to my football fandom, I get frustrated by threads that seem overly speculative. To me, they are counterproductive and a waste of my time and energy. In the future I will stay out of these threads and stay in the threads that I enjoy and find informative. This has been an especially long difficult offseason, between our disappointing production on the field and the lockout. I am ready and anxious to move forward to the games and the resulting football discussions. I learn a lot reading the football discussion threads here. There is an amazing amount of football knowledge and news posted here. I find TexansTalk my best source for news and information. I don't necessarily post much in the football threads, but I do read pretty much every word.

Now back to your original accusation that I care nothing about the players, coaches........and how the win is achieved. If that is how you need to interpret my writings, more power to you. I actually care quite a bit about the players, coaches and team as a whole. I just do not believe that any postings of mine on an internet message board will have any effect on the above.
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Old 08-18-2011   #20
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Default Re: Can Texans win without head coach?

GlassHalfFull is far to reasonable and logical to be a poster on this board.
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