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View Poll Results: Do you think Schaub is "Elite"?
Yes 21 22.11%
No 17 17.89%
Fringe 57 60.00%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-11-2011   #41
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Definite Fringe...I won't consider him elite till Andre doesn't have to make a complete stop on deep passes and when Schaub learns to be more accurate and hits him "in-stride"
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Old 08-11-2011   #42
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

I put fringe.

And the only reason I say that is because he has not played on any big stage and performed under pressure. He has not won any play-off games, he has not even played a play-off game.

I know that is not solely his fault, but I need to see Schaub perform in big games before I call him elite.

If Shammy performs big in the play-offs I don't see how anyone could deny that he is elite.
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Old 08-11-2011   #43
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

no, but i have him in the top 10, at worst top 12, and he does what he needs to do to win games, but unfortunately he never had a great defense to carry him. and kris brown ruined our chances in '09.
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Old 08-11-2011   #44
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Quote:
e·lite
noun
1. The choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.
It's the best of, so I think 4 of 32 sounds about right. Maybe 3 of 32 to make it right at the top 10%, but the problem I have with these kinds of questions is that people expand the definition of elite to mean whatever they want. I remember two years ago some guy from ESPN made a list like this with 15 QBs listed as elite, which included Vince Young, but Schaub was #16. It was dumb, because the top 50% can't really be 'elite' by definition.

In any case, I think people need to be more critical graders in general when applying this term, not just to QBs, but to all positions. If you have more than 5 players listed as 'elite', then you're probably stretching the term too much and watering it down. Be strict! It's the only way to uphold the standards!

In that regard, I would be much happier with just labeling Manning and Brady elite, and stopping there, rather than adding a fifth QB like that whiney assclown Rivers to the list. Brees and Rodgers are kind of a toss up for the #3 and #4 spots, but I think Brees is winding down, whereas Rodgers is just beginning his ascent to elite status.
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Old 08-11-2011   #45
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

schaub elite, nope
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Old 08-11-2011   #46
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

The elite QB's in the NFL are

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Rivers
Big Ben

Typically it's like the guys in the top 5, but Ben and Rivers are somewhat of a toss up and Ben has been to 3 SB's and won two of them. I'd call these guys the elites that are constantly at the top every year, have all done some pretty good things in the playoffs, or the SB.

After that you've got a group of guys consisting of in no particular order Matt Ryan, Vick, Schaub, Eli, Freeman, Romo, Flacco.

Nothing wrong with being in that 2nd tier group of guys. Those are all pretty good QB's that can lead a team to a great record and have playoff success. Schaub doesn't need to be elite for fans to be happy with him and with what we have.
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Old 08-11-2011   #47
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by incubry View Post
Definite Fringe...I won't consider him elite till Andre doesn't have to make a complete stop on deep passes and when Schaub learns to be more accurate and hits him "in-stride"
^^^^this
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Old 08-11-2011   #48
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

To me, there's Brady and Manning. Those two are the creme de la creme. They are head and shoulders above everyone else. They've won lots of games, they've won SB, they've won yardage titles, they've set records, etc.

After that, you've got Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, Schaub, Roethlisberger, and Vick. All of those guys have the potential to be elite but for some reason or another, they haven't gotten there. They've all got some questions in their game.

Brees is the guy that's right there at the cusp of eliteness but he just hasn't quite pushed himself into that category. The rest of those guys aren't quite as close and they all need several more years of success and some SBs before they get there.

If Schaub were to come out and have an MVP season and win a SB, he'd leapfrog Brees for that #3 almost but not quite elite position. He's got to have a couple of amazing seasons to get up into that category for me.

I voted fringe because he's in the category of guys who have a shot to get there.
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Old 08-11-2011   #49
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
To me, there's Brady and Manning. Those two are the creme de la creme. They are head and shoulders above everyone else. They've won lots of games, they've won SB, they've won yardage titles, they've set records, etc.

After that, you've got Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, Schaub, Roethlisberger, and Vick. All of those guys have the potential to be elite but for some reason or another, they haven't gotten there. They've all got some questions in their game.

Brees is the guy that's right there at the cusp of eliteness but he just hasn't quite pushed himself into that category. The rest of those guys aren't quite as close and they all need several more years of success and some SBs before they get there.

If Schaub were to come out and have an MVP season and win a SB, he'd leapfrog Brees for that #3 almost but not quite elite position. He's got to have a couple of amazing seasons to get up into that category for me.

I voted fringe because he's in the category of guys who have a shot to get there.
In the last 3 to 4 years I don't see how Brees has been any different than Manning. His numbers are right there with his. He has a SB ring now just as Manning does and his team beat Manning's team where Manning threw an INT to lose it. His numbers were just as good as Manning's that season as well and just as easily could have won the MVP. Rodgers has been better than Manning has in his first 3 seasons of playing. He has a ring just like Manning does and his numbers have been just as good and he can scramble a lot better and has played with a worse O line. The only reason why I'd put Manning over Rodgers at this point is because Manning has done it longer, but in the last two seasons he's been right there with Manning.
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Old 08-11-2011   #50
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by Nawzer View Post
To me an elite qb is someone who has been to the playoffs multiple times and has had success there. I think Schaub is a fringe elite player at this point and unless the Texans experience playoff success, he'll always be a qb that's regarded very highly but not an elite player. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Phillip Rivers are the the elite qbs in the league.
schaub > rivers. period. playoffs or not
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Old 08-11-2011   #51
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by duckbill58 View Post
schaub > rivers. period. playoffs or not
Well I'm glad you ended that debate.
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Old 08-11-2011   #52
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Elite QBs in the league:
Manning (the good one)
Brady
Rodgers
Brees


That's it for me. Top 4 out of 32 starters, which is about the top ~10%.
This is the list that I would draw up for elite, as well.

I'd probably put Schaub in the top 10 or right outside of it, simply because going down the list of current starting QBs reveals it.

In a black and white poll, he's not elite. But in a shades of gray poll like this one, he's easily fringe.
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Old 08-11-2011   #53
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

If you're going to rank QB's by playoff wins do it legitmately. I don't see Sanchez or Flacco anywhere on these lists.

As much as we would like to be able to put QB's in a vacuum we really can't, or at least nobody has really figured out a proper stat to adequately gauge each QB on their own merits. I mean if you're going to say a guy who threw for well over 4k yards, double digit TD's and a ratio that's greater than 1 : 1 is not good because he's never been to the playoffs, then you should definitely be ranking the guys who are mediocre at best, but surrounded by lots of talent/coaching talent. Matt Hasselbeck still must be good, I mean he got the Seahawks that win in the playoffs last year, plus he took his team to the SB (five or 6 years ago), so that's gotta be worth like 3 or 4 of those ever so craved playoff wins.

Yes it's silly to have to take this wins = only stat that matters business to these conclusions, and you can see now why taking only playoff records at face value in QB evaluation is silly. Still though, I wouldn't put Schaub as elite at this moment. He doesn't have enough years of being really good on paper yet.
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Old 08-11-2011   #54
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Rodgers has been better than Manning has in his first 3 seasons of playing. He has a ring just like Manning does and his numbers have been just as good and he can scramble a lot better and has played with a worse O line. The only reason why I'd put Manning over Rodgers at this point is because Manning has done it longer, but in the last two seasons he's been right there with Manning.
I'm just not feeling all the Rodgers love.


I'm just not.
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Old 08-11-2011   #55
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'm just not feeling all the Rodgers love.


I'm just not.
It doesn't really matter. His statistics have been off the charts since his first year of starting and he's been lights out in every post season game he has played and has a ring already. He's a top 4 NFL QB easily at this point.
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Old 08-11-2011   #56
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by duckbill58 View Post
schaub > rivers. period. playoffs or not
Great argument and analysis.
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Old 08-11-2011   #57
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I voted "fringe".

I think Schaub is a really really good QB. He puts up huge numbers and he CAN bring our team back at the end to score the winning points (despite popular belief). I buy the playoffs arguement but only slightly. I don't think we can consider him elite until we do get a few playoff wins and the post season is more consistent.

I think Marino is one of the greatest QBs ever even though he never won a super bowl. I think Peyton Manning is one of the greatest QBs ever even though he's only won 1. I think players/QBs can have greatness be greatness without the "rings".

But I reserve Elite to be truly ELITE. Manning and Brady are Elite in my mind. Schaub isn't there yet but he's getting close, in my opinion.
So is barry sanders elite ?
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Old 08-11-2011   #58
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Well I'm glad you ended that debate.
SmartA$$!! I mean,
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Old 08-11-2011   #59
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Yeah, elite.....why not.
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Old 08-12-2011   #60
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
To me, there's Brady and Manning. Those two are the creme de la creme. They are head and shoulders above everyone else. They've won lots of games, they've won SB, they've won yardage titles, they've set records, etc.

After that, you've got Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, Schaub, Roethlisberger, and Vick. All of those guys have the potential to be elite but for some reason or another, they haven't gotten there. They've all got some questions in their game.

Brees is the guy that's right there at the cusp of eliteness but he just hasn't quite pushed himself into that category. The rest of those guys aren't quite as close and they all need several more years of success and some SBs before they get there.

If Schaub were to come out and have an MVP season and win a SB, he'd leapfrog Brees for that #3 almost but not quite elite position. He's got to have a couple of amazing seasons to get up into that category for me.

I voted fringe because he's in the category of guys who have a shot to get there.
I have to agree with TPN.
There are only two.
I judge the "Elite" status this way: If any of the guys that folks have listed/discussed retired tomorrow, would they be Hall of Fame worthy? There are only two guys currently playing with the resumes that would draw a definite, no argument, no-brainer "yes" answer to that question: Brady and Manning. Therefore, everyone else mentioned - Big Ben, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Vick - are all at whatever designation comes right below "Elite". They may be on their way, but they still have work to do. If you put the "Are the Hall of Fame material" question to each of those guys, you don't get a definite "yes"; you get a "maybe" or a "yeah if...." as in yeah, if he wins another ring (Brees, Rodgers) or yeah, if he was more consistent (Big Ben), yeah, if he wins a ring or two (Vick and perhaps Schaub).

And for those who say there are HoF'ers like Marino who don't actually have a ring, they better have great numbers. And when Marino retired he pretty much owned the QB record book.
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