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View Poll Results: Do you think Schaub is "Elite"?
Yes 21 22.11%
No 17 17.89%
Fringe 57 60.00%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-11-2011   #1
HTown2ATX
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Default The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

So, probably like everyone else, the second the lockout was over, trash talking, general football talk and in depth/stat crunching football talk and testosterone over load started for me and probably most here too. (feels sooooo good to be posting and reading the "Texans Talk" section again and not just relegated to no sports section).

Anyway, so me and a friend who is a Packers die hard at my second job have been talking non stop football since the lockout ended.

We were talking about Elite QB's and I made the argument that Schaub, at least in my mind is clearly in that conversation. I said that he should definitely be in the top 10 in the league, pointed out the year he had the best stats in the league and was a top P. Manning, etc.

His argument was that Schaub couldn't be considered Eilte as he has not had a playoff win. I refuted this with he hasn't even BEEN there yet which is not on him. I also mentioned that clearly Andre Johnson is Elite and he has never been to the playoffs, etc. So I at least blew his argument up enough that he finally at least conceeded that Schaub is "fringe" Elite.

But, this just got me wondering what other Texans fans thought?

I'm sure this has been debated at some point, so sorry if this is a re-tread, but I didn't see or participate in the thread if there was one so this is new to me anyway

For the record, and you can see my posts from last season when we were all crapping on each other during the 2010 meltdown, I was clearly down on everything and wanted Kubes the eff out as in yesterday. Well, I'm still not sold on Kubes and wonder just what pics of McNair he has, but, with what we have so far done in the off season, I am genuinely starting to get really excited about this season!!!!! I even took this Monday off to watch a Pre-Season game against the JETS!! haha, I must be crazy!

Anyway, what say you? Schaub is "Elite" or no in your eyes?
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Old 08-11-2011   #2
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

To me an elite qb is someone who has been to the playoffs multiple times and has had success there. I think Schaub is a fringe elite player at this point and unless the Texans experience playoff success, he'll always be a qb that's regarded very highly but not an elite player. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Phillip Rivers are the the elite qbs in the league.
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Old 08-11-2011   #3
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

I voted "fringe".

I think Schaub is a really really good QB. He puts up huge numbers and he CAN bring our team back at the end to score the winning points (despite popular belief). I buy the playoffs arguement but only slightly. I don't think we can consider him elite until we do get a few playoff wins and the post season is more consistent.

I think Marino is one of the greatest QBs ever even though he never won a super bowl. I think Peyton Manning is one of the greatest QBs ever even though he's only won 1. I think players/QBs can have greatness be greatness without the "rings".

But I reserve Elite to be truly ELITE. Manning and Brady are Elite in my mind. Schaub isn't there yet but he's getting close, in my opinion.
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Old 08-11-2011   #4
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Thing is, QB's are often measured by wins, losses and playoff appearances. It's the nature of the position, I think. The QB is the leader, and w's and l's are often - fairly or not - linked directly back to them.

Reciever's, on the other hand, are a tad different. One can use statistics to measure the effectiveness of a reciever. You are correct: Andre has never been to a playoff game, but, I would consider him an elite reciever? Is that fair? I don't know.

If the Texans lose a game, nine times out of ten, that loss will be linked to Matt Schaub somehow. Even if Andre did something to blow the game, Schaub will be blamed. Again, it's the nature of the position.

This is all just my opinion, of course.

And, or the record, I, personally, love Schaub, and think he's on the fringes of being "elite." He needs a few more w's.
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Old 08-11-2011   #5
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Elite QBs in the league:
Manning (the good one)
Brady
Rodgers
Brees


That's it for me. Top 4 out of 32 starters, which is about the top ~10%.
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Old 08-11-2011   #6
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

I said no. When he starts to win games that matters I may change my mind.

Schaub is an average QB with an elite WR that inflates Schaubs stats.
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Old 08-11-2011   #7
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

I voted No because I don't think he's currently elite, and I don't believe there is a fringe when it comes to elite - you either are or you aren't.

I do think he's clearly above average, and while I stated there I don't believe in the "fringe" category, I think he is on the level immediately below elite, and he has the potential of reaching elite as soon as this season.
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Old 08-11-2011   #8
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

*fringe*

He shows flashes of being elite some times, but just flashes!
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Old 08-11-2011   #9
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

As much as it pains me to say no I had to. I think to be an elite qb in this league you have to be in the top 10 percent which gives you around 5 truly elite qb's. Matt is top ten in my mind no doubt and a pro bowl caliber guy, but not elite.
Brady, Manning, Brees, Rothliesburger, Rodgers are the elite guys. However just like withe Rodgers last year he only needs that one run the th trophy to make that jump. I see not much difference in him and Phillip Rivers who hasn't had much postseason success.
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Old 08-11-2011   #10
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Not elite but that has less to do with Schaubs stats as it does with overall team performance.
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Old 08-11-2011   #11
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

In order to be elite he will need the rest of the team to play well and get him over the hump. Every year we talk about the talented team we have but never win which leads me to believe that the coaching is the problem and not the players. We will see what this year brings.
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Old 08-11-2011   #12
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Elite QBs in the league:
Manning (the good one)
Brady
Rodgers
Brees


That's it for me. Top 4 out of 32 starters, which is about the top ~10%.
This is the correct way to go about doing this. Top 10 percent. We have the same players listed as elite, too.

Schaub defintely belongs in the fringe category. Say Top 20-25%. In the last two seasons he's been as good as anyone in the league with TDs and yards. If he had a decent defense that kept the other team from scoring less than 25 points, he'd have a much, much better win-loss record. That said, some losses are on him (Ravens last year, even though without him we wouldn't have even been in the position to win...)
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Old 08-11-2011   #13
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Elite is top 5 to me and he is not but is very close. I really like him for this team. Was a steal for 2 seconds. 4,000 yds consistently is hard to sneer at.
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Old 08-11-2011   #14
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Elite is top 5 to me and he is not but is very close. I really like him for this team. Was a steal for 2 seconds. 4,000 yds consistently is hard to sneer at.
So who's your 5th guy if you take the four I listed above? I had a hard time thinking of a clear fifth best QB, so I cut it off at four. Phillip Rivers? Vick? Schaub? Eli Manning? Cutler? Rothlesburger? I think it's a tough call, but the first four were easy for me.
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Old 08-11-2011   #15
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Tough. Who's better? Matt Ryan or Matt Schaub?
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Old 08-11-2011   #16
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonaaayyyy View Post
Tough. Who's better? Matt Ryan or Matt Schaub?
As a Texan fan I dont want to answer that!
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Old 08-11-2011   #17
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Meh... These discussions while fun, are meaningless. This isn't baseball where the pitcher gets the W, L or ND. This is football, the ultimate team sport. What could Schaub have done to stop the Jets from going 68 yards in 42 seconds with no timeouts? I'm not sure Schaub could've stopped Brice McCain (I think) from hitting a set shot right into the Jags recievers hands.

Point is, the QB can control some things on the field, but again its a team sport.

Is Schaub what I would call an elite QB? No. In fact in my opinion there are only 2 current QB's that hold in that regard. Otherwise, it's guys like Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, Johnny U, etc....
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Old 08-11-2011   #18
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Well what is elite anyways? Only 2 QB's are on a different level from the rest of the league and the next 10 qb's are pretty much above avg.
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Old 08-11-2011   #19
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Meh... These discussions while fun, are meaningless. This isn't baseball where the pitcher gets the W, L or ND. This is football, the ultimate team sport. What could Schaub have done to stop the Jets from going 68 yards in 42 seconds with no timeouts? I'm not sure Schaub could've stopped Brice McCain (I think) from hitting a set shot right into the Jags recievers hands.

Point is, the QB can control some things on the field, but again its a team sport.

Is Schaub what I would call an elite QB? No. In fact in my opinion there are only 2 current QB's that hold in that regard. Otherwise, it's guys like Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, Johnny U, etc....
um.....yeah......pretty much this.

Schaub is darn good, and would still be good without AJ, and I for one am happy as hell to have him as our starting QB. But elite? Nope.
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Old 08-11-2011   #20
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Default Re: The "Elite-ness" of Schaub

Just to go along with the progression here, you have to win 10 Superbowls to be elite....so....nobody ever has been yet...

Thank you...

Who was that QB who won a Superbowl with the Ravens?

Just askin'.

I'm pretty sure that every "elite" QB ever has made some bad plays, even in key game-is-on-the-line situations. On the flip side, I mostly agree that a QB shouldn't be accountable for something like....oh....one of the worst secondaries in history.

Frankly, I think Matt really has to win the big one to be considered elite because....well, he's goofy looking.
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