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Old 08-07-2011   #21
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
They played different roles . DA = Wes Welker and JJ = Alvin Harper . One's job is get the 3rd and 5 the other is to be a big play threat .
To a degree.

You had AJ as the WR1. Most times Walter was WR2. And you had a combination of either DA or JJ out there as a 3rd WR.

It feels like DA got the majority of time at WR3 in 2009, and then JJ got that chance in 2010. JJ getting stronger as the years go by.

DA's salary was a problem, too. IIRC, Denver tried to get him from us (when McDaniels was HC of Broncos) but we matched and therefore kept him...which means we probably should have let him go to begin with. At least I think that's how it went down.

Anyway, we have Dorin Dickerson and two UDFAs who will gladly take anything that Jacoby won't win and/or hold onto. There are worse things that could happen than the Texans being wrong about JJ vs. DA.
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Old 08-07-2011   #22
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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To a degree.

You had AJ as the WR1. Most times Walter was WR2. And you had a combination of either DA or JJ out there as a 3rd WR.

It feels like DA got the majority of time at WR3 in 2009, and then JJ got that chance in 2010. JJ getting stronger as the years go by.

DA's salary was a problem, too. IIRC, Denver tried to get him from us (when McDaniels was HC of Broncos) but we matched and therefore kept him...which means we probably should have let him go to begin with. At least I think that's how it went down.

Anyway, we have Dorin Dickerson and two UDFAs who will gladly take anything that Jacoby won't win and/or hold onto. There are worse things that could happen than the Texans being wrong about JJ vs. DA.
My point is as goofy as DA was , he had the highest wunderlich in his draft class . He was a good slot reciever cause he could make his reads fast . He was also sure handed and played special teams . Not bad for a guy who was going to the Wharton School of business .

I do agree about Dickerson and the FAs . The Texans skill positions are getting very deep real quick .
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Old 08-07-2011   #23
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

Great work GP. I agree that Jacoby has huge potential and when he finally gets it, he's going to be very dangerous. Let's hope that's this year.

I also agree with Honoring Earl here, Jacoby and Anderson play two completely different WR roles and are asked to do completely different things. You can't evaluate their stats against each others.

I'm also really excited about the WR group we have on this team. The 1st and 2nd year guys have TONS of potential!
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Old 08-07-2011   #24
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
They played different roles . DA = Wes Welker and JJ = Alvin Harper . One's job is get the 3rd and 5 the other is to be a big play threat .
DA is Welker in his wettest dream. DA was a WR who was average at best. Slow+small=unable to gain separation/box out DBS.
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Old 08-07-2011   #25
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

Anderson is not Welker by any means but their roles are close to each other.
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Old 08-07-2011   #26
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

JJ is not as consistant as alvin harper. hes more like chris sanders from the oilers. so much dang potential but never really put it all together. so much speed and can break it any time he touches the ball, but poor hands.
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Old 08-07-2011   #27
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

i'm with earl on this one; these two are completely different and comparing stats like that without other parameters (down/distance/time of game etc) doesn't show a whole lot in my opinion.

JJ is undoubtedly going to look better; he's going to 'flash' a lot more due to the opportunities he's given to make plays on the outside and on deep routes, while DA runs short to intermediate routes and gains tough yardage.

i'm not trying to crap on JJ here, just saying that the way those stats are presented doesn't accurately depict what these guys did.

with that said, i'm hoping maehl can pick up our offense and contribute in some ways for us, he seems like a great replacement for the DA role and could represent a pleasant upgrade at least athletically over DA.
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Old 08-07-2011   #28
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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Originally Posted by pbat488 View Post
i'm with earl on this one; these two are completely different and comparing stats like that without other parameters (down/distance/time of game etc) doesn't show a whole lot in my opinion.

JJ is undoubtedly going to look better; he's going to 'flash' a lot more due to the opportunities he's given to make plays on the outside and on deep routes, while DA runs short to intermediate routes and gains tough yardage.

i'm not trying to crap on JJ here, just saying that the way those stats are presented doesn't accurately depict what these guys did.

with that said, i'm hoping maehl can pick up our offense and contribute in some ways for us, he seems like a great replacement for the DA role and could represent a pleasant upgrade at least athletically over DA.
Maehl had the faster 3 cone drill ever recorded at the combine . I guess this means he can explode out of his cuts .
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Old 08-07-2011   #29
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

Could DA do THIS??



'nuff said.
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Old 08-07-2011   #30
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

I always thought a WR's role was to put up yards and score TDs.

JJ outperformed DA in every category but fumbles/fumbles lost.

9 TDs to 3. More first downs. Longer gains, by a pretty big margin.

I don't understand this idea that David Anderson is somehow the Kurt Rambis of the NFL and he has his own "niche." LOL.

You guys want somebody who can catch a 5-yard curl pattern and be dead on the spot? Fine. You want a guy who can catch a quick slant and get 1 yard of YAC before being tackled? OK. DA's that guy.

He didn't really do anything extraordinary as it's being proposed. He's become a legend around here, and for what I can't seem to understand. For getting to do the string dance three times out of a 5-year career here? For 3 TDs in 5 years? Curls and quick slants? It's hard for me to sit here and say I'm not trying to minimize his "role," but it's just odd that his "role" is so small in the grand scheme of things.

I guess the "role" argument will suffice as to why David Anderson will always be highly revered around here. JJ Moses was like DA: Caught the ball on punt returns, did decent with it, but never scored or could seemingly never break away form the pack.

We've got a WR3 in Jacoby Jones and it's being made out that his stats were better because of "roles?" I don't follow the logic. I'd even go so far as to say that JJ might be more valuable than Kevin Walter, but that would cause all hell to break loose if I dared say that. For some reason, Jacoby Jones is destined to be in a few people's doghouse forever.

I think the "disappointment" factor when he doesn't dazzle every time he's targeted, whether it's his fault or not on the play, coupled with what might be a perception of Jacoby goofing around and not being as serious about football as a guy like DA, is what makes most people hesitate to get behind the guy and root for him.

All I know is that the guy is electric and he can score points. There was even a time or two or three last season where JJ made incredible catches, even for TDs, and it was the spark our offense needed to chip away from the all-too-familiar deficit we'd be in every game.
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Old 08-08-2011   #31
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
I always thought a WR's role was to put up yards and score TDs.

JJ outperformed DA in every category but fumbles/fumbles lost.

9 TDs to 3. More first downs. Longer gains, by a pretty big margin.

I don't understand this idea that David Anderson is somehow the Kurt Rambis of the NFL and he has his own "niche." LOL.

You guys want somebody who can catch a 5-yard curl pattern and be dead on the spot? Fine. You want a guy who can catch a quick slant and get 1 yard of YAC before being tackled? OK. DA's that guy.

He didn't really do anything extraordinary as it's being proposed. He's become a legend around here, and for what I can't seem to understand. For getting to do the string dance three times out of a 5-year career here? For 3 TDs in 5 years? Curls and quick slants? It's hard for me to sit here and say I'm not trying to minimize his "role," but it's just odd that his "role" is so small in the grand scheme of things.

I guess the "role" argument will suffice as to why David Anderson will always be highly revered around here. JJ Moses was like DA: Caught the ball on punt returns, did decent with it, but never scored or could seemingly never break away form the pack.

We've got a WR3 in Jacoby Jones and it's being made out that his stats were better because of "roles?" I don't follow the logic. I'd even go so far as to say that JJ might be more valuable than Kevin Walter, but that would cause all hell to break loose if I dared say that. For some reason, Jacoby Jones is destined to be in a few people's doghouse forever.

I think the "disappointment" factor when he doesn't dazzle every time he's targeted, whether it's his fault or not on the play, coupled with what might be a perception of Jacoby goofing around and not being as serious about football as a guy like DA, is what makes most people hesitate to get behind the guy and root for him.

All I know is that the guy is electric and he can score points. There was even a time or two or three last season where JJ made incredible catches, even for TDs, and it was the spark our offense needed to chip away from the all-too-familiar deficit we'd be in every game.
You see what I see. Jacoby makes plays that gets the Texans WINS.
DA is a "Rudy"-like character. As long as the team doesn't depend on him
for ACTUAL production, the fans can feel their hearts warmed by the
"lil engine that could" getting a catch or two, then promptly falling down
within 2 yards after the catch.
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Old 08-08-2011   #32
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
I always thought a WR's role was to put up yards and score TDs.

JJ outperformed DA in every category but fumbles/fumbles lost.

9 TDs to 3. More first downs. Longer gains, by a pretty big margin.

I don't understand this idea that David Anderson is somehow the Kurt Rambis of the NFL and he has his own "niche." LOL.

You guys want somebody who can catch a 5-yard curl pattern and be dead on the spot? Fine. You want a guy who can catch a quick slant and get 1 yard of YAC before being tackled? OK. DA's that guy.

He didn't really do anything extraordinary as it's being proposed. He's become a legend around here, and for what I can't seem to understand.
For getting to do the string dance three times out of a 5-year career here? For 3 TDs in 5 years? Curls and quick slants? It's hard for me to sit here and say I'm not trying to minimize his "role," but it's just odd that his "role" is so small in the grand scheme of things.

I guess the "role" argument will suffice as to why David Anderson will always be highly revered around here. JJ Moses was like DA: Caught the ball on punt returns, did decent with it, but never scored or could seemingly never break away form the pack.

We've got a WR3 in Jacoby Jones and it's being made out that his stats were better because of "roles?" I don't follow the logic. I'd even go so far as to say that JJ might be more valuable than Kevin Walter, but that would cause all hell to break loose if I dared say that. For some reason, Jacoby Jones is destined to be in a few people's doghouse forever.

I think the "disappointment" factor when he doesn't dazzle every time he's targeted, whether it's his fault or not on the play, coupled with what might be a perception of Jacoby goofing around and not being as serious about football as a guy like DA, is what makes most people hesitate to get behind the guy and root for him.

All I know is that the guy is electric and he can score points. There was even a time or two or three last season where JJ made incredible catches, even for TDs, and it was the spark our offense needed to chip away from the all-too-familiar deficit we'd be in every game.
But he is the funniest football player evar!
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Old 08-08-2011   #33
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

I don't think ANYONE is saying JJ doesn't have more talent or more potential, that much is clear. Nor do I think anyone was saying we should have kept DA over JJ.

Sure, stats like that are great, but when I think of JJ vs. DA, I have to give DA reliability. JJ might be the flashier wide receiver, but he was hit or miss. Sure, he'd take some to the house, which, I am no discounting by any means.

But he'd also make boneheaded drops or fumbles during returns that just make you shake your head. The question is: do you want your third wideout to be a guy who can potentially lose the game for you, or for him to potentially win the game for you?

To be honest, I don't know how comfortable I feel hinging the gameplan on JJ. He's a playmaker to be sure, and I hope he gets his stuff together. If he can become a reliable threat, that means, not just lightining striking once in a while, then we'll have a great #2 on our hands.

As far as Kevin Walter is concerned, he underperformed last year, to be sure. But I love having him in there across Andre where he can pick up first downs and block the edges out so Arian can go wild.
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Old 08-08-2011   #34
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

*repost*
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Old 08-08-2011   #35
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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But he is the funniest football player evar!
I bet he's a blast to hang out with, that's for sure. And seems like he lives pretty modestly (the Cribs: Locked Out! Edition video).

I bet he's going to have fun living in Colorado, that's for sure.
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Old 08-08-2011   #36
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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I don't think ANYONE is saying JJ doesn't have more talent or more potential, that much is clear. Nor do I think anyone was saying we should have kept DA over JJ.

Sure, stats like that are great, but when I think of JJ vs. DA, I have to give DA reliability.
Reliability? That sounds so boring, though. And slow. "I have a really reliable car. She's not much to look at it, but she'll do alright to get me up and down the road." Can't score a hot chick with a white '99 Civic.

Just messing with you, man. In honor of DA, I had to come up with some comedy in this post.

I think he could do better in a Spread type offense, which is what the Pats run and what McDaniels was trying to run in Denver. Not sure if it's what's awaiting him NOW...but still, he ought to get some playing time in Denver for sure.

Long live The String Dance!
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Old 08-08-2011   #37
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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I don't think ANYONE is saying JJ doesn't have more talent or more potential, that much is clear. Nor do I think anyone was saying we should have kept DA over JJ.

Sure, stats like that are great, but when I think of JJ vs. DA, I have to give DA reliability. JJ might be the flashier wide receiver, but he was hit or miss. Sure, he'd take some to the house, which, I am no discounting by any means.

But he'd also make boneheaded drops or fumbles during returns that just make you shake your head. The question is: do you want your third wideout to be a guy who can potentially lose the game for you, or for him to potentially win the game for you?

To be honest, I don't know how comfortable I feel hinging the gameplan on JJ. He's a playmaker to be sure, and I hope he gets his stuff together. If he can become a reliable threat, that means, not just lightining striking once in a while, then we'll have a great #2 on our hands.

As far as Kevin Walter is concerned, he underperformed last year, to be sure. But I love having him in there across Andre where he can pick up first downs and block the edges out so Arian can go wild.
Reliable-Schmiable...



JJ didn't make THIS list.. but look at some of the names on it.... They ALL SUCK and are unreliable.. everyone on it should be replaced by David Anderson!!

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb...rank=232&year=



I understand.. The guys on this list get close to 100 looks per year, but even so, JJ didn't make it, so can we stop making his drop issue out to be "Chronic"?

You can't make an omelet if you don't break a few eggs.

I'll wager that if you gave JJ enough passes to make this list, you'd see him in the pro bowl.

PS - GP, I'm with you on KW ;-)
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Old 08-08-2011   #38
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

1. When looking at stats (I'll admit I'm a huge stats junkie) you have to keep it in perspective. You can't just rely on the number given. Just like in rushing or receiving yards, the total figure is great, but looking at those yards compared to the number of rushes or receptions is highly important. The same goes for dropped passes. You've got to compare the number of drops to how many "catchable" balls were thrown that way. Then you can likely have a more even playing field. Likewise, a pass may be harder or easier to catch if your 5 yards from the LOS vs. 20 yards. Jacoby was targeted 79 times compared to Andre's 138 and Anderson's 18. Keep that in perspective when looking at dropped passes.

2. I stand by the FACT that just because they're called Wide Recievers doesn't mean they are asked to do the same thing. Nobody is saying Anderson is better than Jacoby. But the two play vastly different positions even though they're both dubbed "WR". It's like saying LB. The weakside, middle and strongside linebacker positions are all asked to do different things on the field just as the Split End, Flanker and Slot receivers are with the WR grouping. Anderson's skillset is best suited for staying closer to the L.O.S. and that's how he was used, he wasn't asked to go downfield, that's what Jacoby is better. Just by virtue of their "sub-position" within the WR group, Jacoby is more likely to have a higher Yards Per Catch average than Anderson. DA's position is a highly valuable one and can be a QBs best friend. I'm not saying DA is irreplaceable, I think the position is.... and I have really high hopes for Jeff Maehl. I really hope he has a good camps and gets a shot this year.

But comparing Jacoby vs. Anderson stat for stat would be like comparing the WOLB vs. SOLB in Wade's defense. Ware/Mario play the WOLB position and rush 95% of the time.... the other Outside spot not as much. So you'd probably be correct in saying Ware is better than his counterpart in x,y,z category because "look at the stats" but that's probably why they're in the position they're in (playing that spot).
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Old 08-08-2011   #39
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post

But comparing Jacoby vs. Anderson stat for stat would be like comparing the WOLB vs. SOLB in Wade's defense. Ware/Mario play the WOLB position and rush 95% of the time.... the other Outside spot not as much. So you'd probably be correct in saying Ware is better than his counterpart in x,y,z category because "look at the stats" but that's probably why they're in the position they're in (playing that spot).
The premise of the thread is basically a straw man argument to me. I wouldn't compare DA to JJ, personally.
Other than this thread, I really haven't noticed many people making a comparison between the two players.

OTH, I agree with the opinion that JJ has more value than DA on virtually every level, except as a comedian.

JJ is more prone to make me cry than to make me laugh... as CretorFrigg says, Jacoby has dropped more balls than puberty.
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Old 08-08-2011   #40
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Default Re: Stat comparison: JJ and DA...a definitive analysis???

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Originally Posted by _superMario90_ View Post
Reliable-Schmiable...



JJ didn't make THIS list.. but look at some of the names on it.... They ALL SUCK and are unreliable.. everyone on it should be replaced by David Anderson!!

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb...rank=232&year=



I understand.. The guys on this list get close to 100 looks per year, but even so, JJ didn't make it, so can we stop making his drop issue out to be "Chronic"?

You can't make an omelet if you don't break a few eggs.

I'll wager that if you gave JJ enough passes to make this list, you'd see him in the pro bowl.

PS - GP, I'm with you on KW ;-)
http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb...d=8327&team=34

4 drops on 78 targets for JJ
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