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View Poll Results: Secondary options you prefer.
Manning and Quinn at Safety/ Joseph and Allen at CB 44 49.44%
Manning and Quinn at Safety/ Joseph and Jackson at CB 28 31.46%
Nolan and Manning at Safety/ Joseph and Quinn at CB 11 12.36%
Manning and Quinn at safety/ Joseph and "rookie" at CB 6 6.74%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-04-2011   #21
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

So some of you say K. Jac was a rookie he deserves another shot, so whats so different about Nolan. His first season of true playing time and i can tell you he looked 50% better than K. Jac, oh well i like it with Quin and Manning then Joseph and Allen
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Old 08-04-2011   #22
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
^^This^^

Yesterday Jacskon gets beaten on a double move by an UDFA , today beaten by a practice squad guy .... This isnt good news.


I just wonder who would get the nod at CB2 if its not Jackson .... is it Allen ? or one of the rookies ?!


I get the feling that Jackson will get the starting nod unless one of those others really shows well and he flat out fails. Someone is gonna have to take that job from him convincingly.



Yep .... It didn tmatter who they had back there , they all looked the same to me accept the name and number on the jersey.
Allen did pick off Schaub today
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Old 08-04-2011   #23
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So some of you say K. Jac was a rookie he deserves another shot, so whats so different about Nolan. His first season of true playing time and i can tell you he looked 50% better than K. Jac, oh well i like it with Quin and Manning then Joseph and Allen
The difference, IMO, is that KJ's problem is technique while Nolan's main problem is horrible instincts.

At safety, you cannot start if you have poor instincts, angles, or spacial awareness. Nolan struggles with all three, significantly.

KJ sounds like he needs some serious coaching. His technique is poor enough to not allow him to utilize his athletic ability. That can be fixed, can be coached.

Poor instincts cannot be coached.
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Old 08-04-2011   #24
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The difference, IMO, is that KJ's problem is technique while Nolan's main problem is horrible instincts.

At safety, you cannot start if you have poor instincts, angles, or spacial awareness. Nolan struggles with all three, significantly.

KJ sounds like he needs some serious coaching. His technique is poor enough to not allow him to utilize his athletic ability. That can be fixed, can be coached.

Poor instincts cannot be coached.

Double post.
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Old 08-04-2011   #25
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The difference, IMO, is that KJ's problem is technique while Nolan's main problem is horrible instincts.

At safety, you cannot start if you have poor instincts, angles, or spacial awareness. Nolan struggles with all three, significantly.

KJ sounds like he needs some serious coaching. His technique is poor enough to not allow him to utilize his athletic ability. That can be sized, can be coached.

Poor instincts cannot be coached.
Nolans instincts are fine.

Anyways if he struggled with all that and he still looked better than kj, then what does that say about kj?

I don't understand this thought process that kj is one of the only players that stand to improve with better coaching.
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Old 08-04-2011   #26
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
The difference, IMO, is that KJ's problem is technique while Nolan's main problem is horrible instincts.

At safety, you cannot start if you have poor instincts, angles, or spacial awareness. Nolan struggles with all three, significantly.

KJ sounds like he needs some serious coaching. His technique is poor enough to not allow him to utilize his athletic ability. That can be fixed, can be coached.

Poor instincts cannot be coached.
i dunno Nolan had what 3 ints, and that last one of the season looked pretty good. He also recorded a sack. Seemed to me he was always in position to make a play.
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Old 08-04-2011   #27
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
The difference, IMO, is that KJ's problem is technique while Nolan's main problem is horrible instincts.

At safety, you cannot start if you have poor instincts, angles, or spacial awareness. Nolan struggles with all three, significantly.

KJ sounds like he needs some serious coaching. His technique is poor enough to not allow him to utilize his athletic ability. That can be fixed, can be coached.

Poor instincts cannot be coached.
Technique is a part of KJ's problems .... but a lack of straight line speed just compounds it.

I think he's a nickle guy at best .... but thats just my opinion.
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Old 08-04-2011   #28
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i dunno Nolan had what 3 ints, and that last one of the season looked pretty good. He also recorded a sack. Seemed to me he was always in position to make a play.
Agree to disagree again I suppose. Positioning is Nolan's biggest weakness. Poor positioning resulting from poor instincts, angles, and spacial recognition.

Nolan was consistently picked on last year. On quite a few occasions, Nolan ended up behind the corner when playing deep zone. Many times he overran ball carriers along the sidelines, or misread the trajectory of the ball.
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Old 08-04-2011   #29
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

Those are our options at CB? It's going to be a really long year.

Joseph is the only solid option we have. Quin is decent, a #3 (our best last year).

The front 7 better bring it.
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Old 08-04-2011   #30
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Technique is a part of KJ's problems .... but a lack of straight line speed just compounds it.

I think he's a nickle guy at best .... but thats just my opinion.
Who knows. Im not a huge fan of Jackson but he's more valuable than both Allen and Nolan IMO.

There are alot of successful corners with comparable athletic ability to Jackson. They are successful due to technique. KJ will have to be one of those guys that CANNOT afford to take a misstep. He needs to really work on his technique.

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I don't understand this thought process that kj is one of the only players that stand to improve with better coaching.
That's not what is being stated.

Some things can be coached, some things cannot. Technique is an issue that can be fixed through coaching. Poor instincts cannot be fixed, only dimmed with athletic ability. If someone takes bad angles consistently, it is naive to think that it will change. Angles taken to ball carriers come from instincts. Spacial awareness comes from instincts. It boils down to what can be coached and what cannot be coached.
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Old 08-04-2011   #31
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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Who knows. Im not a huge fan of Jackson but he's more valuable than both Allen and Nolan IMO.

There are alot of successful corners with comparable athletic ability to Jackson. They are successful due to technique. KJ will have to be one of those guys that CANNOT afford to take a misstep. He needs to really work on his technique.



That's not what is being stated.

Some things can be coached, some things cannot. Technique is an issue that can be fixed through coaching. Poor instincts cannot be fixed, only dimmed with athletic ability. If someone takes bad angles consistently, it is naive to think that it will change. Angles taken to ball carriers come from instincts. Spacial awareness comes from instincts. It boils down to what can be coached and what cannot be coached.
what is this based on ??? If we go off of last season not true, J. Allen outplayed K. Jac in every aspect last season. Would rather have last years allen on the field than last years K. Jac.
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Old 08-04-2011   #32
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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what is this based on ??? If we go off of last season not true, J. Allen outplayed K. Jac in every aspect last season. Would rather have last years allen on the field than last years K. Jac.
Why do you keep asking this question? It's based on what I saw and my opinion. That is what it is always based on. Who is good and who is not is, for the most part, opinion. I don't understand the use of this question.
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Old 08-04-2011   #33
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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And for the record I don't think our safeties were as bad as they were made out to be. Wilson had been ok in the years he was here before the past one, and Bernard was an impact player in his first year here.

I think that last years defense was just Clusterfu&@...

...poor coaching.
Agreed.

I've been saying in 2009, they let the guys do what they were brought here to do. In 2010 they tried to cover their weaknesses instead of play to their strengths.

Hopefully Wade won't be that foolish. I thought we were a talented squad, on both sides of the ball in 2010. After the draft & the last week.. even more so.
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Old 08-04-2011   #34
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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Troy Nolan did not play well for the Texans last year. Any situation in which he is starting for us is not good. He is a liability plain and simple.
He was basically a red-shirted 7th round pick.

We don't know how good he's going to be.
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Old 08-04-2011   #35
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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Nolans instincts are fine.

Anyways if he struggled with all that and he still looked better than kj, then what does that say about kj?

I don't understand this thought process that kj is one of the only players that stand to improve with better coaching.
They really need to let us rep people more frequently.
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Old 08-04-2011   #36
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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He was basically a red-shirted 7th round pick.

We don't know how good he's going to be.
I mean, that can be said about anyone.

My point is that he lacks the first thing you need, instincts.

Compare him to Jackson. Jackson displayed good instincts, especially when he was put in a position to play short zone against corners. He showed an ability to jump routes, based on instincts. Sometimes it was a little bit early, but that happens. His problems came from technique, and as Corrosion says he doesn't have the athletic ability to make up for it. He can't take a misstep and expect to catch up to a receiver.

This was evident when he played too close to receivers as his balance was very poor last year. Any misstep and he was stumbling and/or losing ground on the receiver immediately. That can be fixed.

A side note about the stumbling and falling down. It looks to me like Jackson's feet aren't doing what his mind wants them to do. He takes a misstep and immediately tries to make up for it causing him to lose balance. IMO with good technique he could be successful.

Nolan just plain misreads things.

Just my opinion, but Jackson looks alot more coachable than does Nolan.
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Old 08-04-2011   #37
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Some things can be coached, some things cannot. Technique is an issue that can be fixed through coaching. Poor instincts cannot be fixed, only dimmed with athletic ability. If someone takes bad angles consistently, it is naive to think that it will change. Angles taken to ball carriers come from instincts. Spacial awareness comes from instincts. It boils down to what can be coached and what cannot be coached.
Well that wasn't even the main part of my post. I disagree that a player with poor instincts makes some of the plays he did last year.

For the limited time he played, he made more plays than Jackson did all year. If his instincts are poor then Jacksons are are none.

And angles taken on ball carriers is something that is coached when a player consistent takes bad angles (which I don't know if Nolan did or didn't do). As a lb and db your are coached on your angles on the field and definitely in the film room. That statement you made is just flat out incorrect.
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Old 08-04-2011   #38
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Actually d linemen are coached on angles as well. Angles are constantly being talked about and coached.
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Old 08-04-2011   #39
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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For the limited time he played, he made more plays than Jackson did all year. If his instincts are poor then Jacksons are are none.
Disagree. What plays? Nolan had 3 INTs, Jackson had 2 INTs.

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And angles taken on ball carriers is something that is coached when a player consistent takes bad angles (which I don't know if Nolan did or didn't do). As a lb and db your are coached on your angles on the field and definitely in the film room. That statement you made is just flat out incorrect.
Nolan consistently took poor angles. Obviously, a coach tries to improve every aspect, but not every aspect is easily improved. If a guy doesn't understand basic angles and is not able to calculate and implement them on the spot he shouldn't be playing in the NFL.

I'm not saying every player takes perfect angles every time, but when a guy is taking poor angles almost every play there is a significant problem that will not be easily fixed, if ever.

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Actually d linemen are coached on angles as well. Angles are constantly being talked about and coached.
Everything is coached.

If your a manager, and your subordinate yells at a customer, you tell him not to do it. However, if he doesn't already understand not to do that then there is a significant problem.

Same goes for football. If a guy takes bad angles consistently, you will tell him how to fix it. After awhile, you realize it isn't something you can really coach out of the guy.

It's the same concept.

Instincts are natural. They cannot be completely changed through coaching. Technique can be completely changed through coaching.

Edit:

To add to this, angles rely on instincts. You cannot coach every angle that needs to be taken. Eventually, I guy needs to have the instincts to take an angle on the fly. If its something that is always harped on by coaches and is consistently being botched, then there is a serious problem.
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Old 08-04-2011   #40
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Default Re: Is moving Quinn To Safety smart ?

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I mean, that can be said about anyone.

My point is that he lacks the first thing you need, instincts.

Compare him to Jackson. Jackson displayed good instincts...


Just my opinion, but Jackson looks alot more coachable than does Nolan.
I'm not a one or the other kind of guy. I want both to succeed. We've got to put 53 men on the roster a few weeks from now. I'd like to think they all have potential.

To say one of the 11 guys that sucked on our defense last year is more coachable than another is splitting hairs.

If the question is, do I think we would be better playing Nolan at Safety or Jackson at Corner, I'm going with Jackson at corner.

Now my Safety depth chart looks like:
Manning, Quin, Nolan, Keo

Instead of :
Manning, Nolan, Keo, Barber...

CB:
Joseph, Quin, Jackson, Harris, McMannis, Carmichael, McCain

is only slightly better than

Joseph, Jackson, Harris, McMannis, Carmichael
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