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Old 08-04-2011   #41
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

I don't think it's time for shit flinging threads just yet.
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Old 08-04-2011   #42
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by bo orlando View Post
challenging kids is different than kicking them in the ass when they mess up. kicking somebody when they're down is the easiest way to make them not want to do what you're trying to teach them. positive reinforcement is not the same as coddling.
Jeez...We're talking about football players here, not kindergarten. All I was saying is that you have to have balance. Praise the hell out out of them when they do good, get on their ass when they screw the pooch. It's just a figure of speech.
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Old 08-04-2011   #43
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Faaaantastic. The old "Gotta' protect my 1st round draft pick" game by Kubiak & Company.

(Sigh)

Oh come on GP! We haven't seen anything yet to indicate whether or not KJ will improve within the new system or not. At least wait until we see him in a couple preseason games before you start criticizing any positive comments about him. I doubt he's going to become the cornerback we all wish he could be, but at least let him perform before the bashing starts.
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Old 08-04-2011   #44
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
I don't think it's time for shit flinging threads just yet.
I agree with this guy. Let's hold off on the criticism until we actually see something.
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Old 08-04-2011   #45
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Oh come on GP! We haven't seen anything yet to indicate whether or not KJ will improve within the new system or not. At least wait until we see him in a couple preseason before you start criticizing any positive comments about him. I doubt he's going to become the cornerback we all wish he could be, but at least let him perform before the bashing starts.
i think most are going off of last seasons performance which we all know how that went.
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Old 08-04-2011   #46
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

Good thing is that Joseph and manning should be practicing today. I am curious on how they will look
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Old 08-04-2011   #47
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

I'm hoping Jackson really bounces back this year and benefits from Joseph and Manning. The thing about this fanbase (myself included) is that when a player gets on our 'bad side' it's awfully tough for us to 'forgive' him. Dunta Robinson, a fan favorite, basically turned into public enemy number one. I fear that even if Jackson improves some and becomes a solid #2 corner, it may never be enough for us to forget his rookie season.
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Old 08-04-2011   #48
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I'm hoping Jackson really bounces back this year and benefits from Joseph and Manning. The thing about this fanbase (myself included) is that when a player gets on our 'bad side' it's awfully tough for us to 'forgive' him. Dunta Robinson, a fan favorite, basically turned into public enemy number one. I fear that even if Jackson improves some and becomes a solid #2 corner, it may never be enough for us to forget his rookie season.
That's a good point. I'm trying to come up with an example of a player that started bad, who got markedly better and we quit criticizing. The closest ones I can come up with are Brown at LT and Myers at C. They still get their fair share of criticism.
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Old 08-04-2011   #49
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Hopefully, Wade isn't using that ridiculous shuffle-step that Bush was re-training the DBs to do last year.

I'm surprised it isn't mentioned more.

I've always suspected that the shuffle-step technique was responsible for a large number of slips, trips and falls by our secondary.


---
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Old 08-04-2011   #50
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
That's a good point. I'm trying to come up with an example of a player that started bad, who got markedly better and we quit criticizing. The closest ones I can come up with are Brown at LT and Myers at C. They still get their fair share of criticism.
Yea really good examples, particularly Chris Myers. Jenkins throwing him out of the way will forever be etched into our brains... poor guy. I've actually thought Myers has been pretty good for us overall and a really good trade, what was it like a 6th round pick for him?
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Old 08-04-2011   #51
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
Yea really good examples, particularly Chris Myers. Jenkins throwing him out of the way will forever be etched into our brains... poor guy. I've actually thought Myers has been pretty good for us overall and a really good trade, what was it like a 6th round pick for him?
I'm not sure what we gave for him. I'm just glad we've had some continuity on the OL. I'm also that we've had so many players that started bad and stayed bad. That's a leading cause for all the KJ criticism. We're accustomed to what ya see is what ya get.
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Old 08-04-2011   #52
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
i think most are going off of last seasons performance which we all know how that went.
Well, duh. That does not mean there is absolutely no way that Kareem Jackson could improve this offseason. It's just Kubiak giving his thoughts to a sportswriter. Does anyone expect Kubiak or any other coach to say 'Well gee, I think KJ has gotten worse since last year and probably should have gone undrafted'. It's just asinine to criticize this stuff before we have any idea what his production in 2011 will be. Preseason is only two weeks away, and we should get a much better idea of how he will perform after that.

Go look at the way Elway and the Broncos are protecting Tim Tebow's feelings despite his inability to hit moving targets with a football.

And just for the hell of it, here's what Rex Ryan said about Gholston when he came to the Jets:
Quote:
"I'm looking forward to meeting Vernon and seeing what makes him tick...if the guy's got it in him, we're (going to) get it out of him."
No bullshit, he didn't need to tear him down but rather left it out there in potential despite knowing full well that he was worthless the year before. A couple years later after Vernon was off the team Ryan ripped him in his book calling him a phony. Kubiak's not doing anything special here. If anyone can find a quote of a current NFL head coach ripping down on a recent 1st round draft pick I'd love to hear it.
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Old 08-04-2011   #53
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Hopefully, Wade isn't using that ridiculous shuffle-step that Bush was re-training the DBs to do last year.

I'm surprised it isn't mentioned more.

I've always suspected that the shuffle-step technique was responsible for a large number of slips, trips and falls by our secondary.


---
Yeah, they've scrapped that crap. And I agree, I think that was a huge fail.

They've talked about how this is more like what KJ learned in Alabama and I think that's a LOT of what they're referring to when they say that.
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Old 08-04-2011   #54
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I'm not sure what we gave for him. I'm just glad we've had some continuity on the OL. I'm also that we've had so many players that started bad and stayed bad. That's a leading cause for all the KJ criticism. We're accustomed to what ya see is what ya get.
TRUE. I cannot think of one player who started that bad who turned out to be pretty good. Not one not on our team anyways.
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Old 08-04-2011   #55
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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As Jackson's biggest critic since he was drafted and as a fan of Harris, I'm still gonna give coaches time to re-train him. We are starting to pile on KJ.
Good post, someone please rep him for me. I'm sure KJ had a 100+ reps in practice yesterday and the story for effect mentioned 2 of them on the opposite extremes. Give the kid a break and lets see how he looks in the preseason before we bury this guy for good.

I also agree with Ol Miss T, his rookie season is over, forgive and forget, if my wife had some of the attitudes on this board, I never would have gotten thru the first month of marriage. The defensive coaching staff has no ties to this kid or anybody else, he'll either earn the job in practice, sit or get cut. It's as simple as that.
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Old 08-04-2011   #56
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Well, duh. That does not mean there is absolutely no way that Kareem Jackson could improve this offseason. It's just Kubiak giving his thoughts to a sportswriter. Does anyone expect Kubiak or any other coach to say 'Well gee, I think KJ has gotten worse since last year and probably should have gone undrafted'. It's just asinine to criticize this stuff before we have any idea what his production in 2011 will be. Preseason is only two weeks away, and we should get a much better idea of how he will perform after that.

Go look at the way Elway and the Broncos are protecting Tim Tebow's feelings despite his inability to hit moving targets with a football.

And just for the hell of it, here's what Rex Ryan said about Gholston when he came to the Jets:


No bullshit, he didn't need to tear him down but rather left it out there in potential despite knowing full well that he was worthless the year before. A couple years later after Vernon was off the team Ryan ripped him in his book calling him a phony. Kubiak's not doing anything special here. If anyone can find a quote of a current head coach ripping down on a recent 1st round draft pick I'd love to hear it.
i agree but honesty is always the best way to go
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Old 08-04-2011   #57
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
TRUE. I cannot think of one player who started that bad who turned out to be pretty good. Not one not on our team anyways.
IIRC, Jerry Rice and Nnamdi Asomugha didn't have good rookie seasons. Rice dropped a lot of passes. And Nnamdi wasn't even a starter. I'm sure there are a lot of other examples.

With our team? Yeah, not so much. Maybe Arian who has stated publicly that he wasn't doing the right things at the beginning of his rookie season and didn't start to get his head straight until midway through.
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Old 08-04-2011   #58
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by nytexan View Post
Good post, someone please rep him for me. I'm sure KJ had a 100+ reps in practice yesterday and the story for effect mentioned 2 of them on the opposite extremes. Give the kid a break and lets see how he looks in the preseason before we bury this guy for good.

I also agree with Ol Miss T, his rookie season is over, forgive and forget, if my wife had some of the attitudes on this board, I never would have gotten thru the first month of marriage. The defensive coaching staff has no ties to this kid or anybody else, he'll either earn the job in practice, sit or get cut. It's as simple as that.
Well he's definitely not getting cut. The Texans are at/above the cap and a cut to a 1st round pick from last year would drop the remainder of his signing bonus into 2011, which would kill our cap. He will definitely be with the team through next year to avoid cap obligations, but that doesn't necessarily mean he earned the spot.
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Old 08-04-2011   #59
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Well we all know Kubiak knows nothing about Defense our Defensive players now poor wade has to work with this NFL ready CB
What Wade would have probably recognized had he been here last year is that KJ may have come from an NFL-ready-like pro set D..........but he was NOT NFL READY.......not unlike many Juniors whose unrealistic egos bump heads with their NFL reality.
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Old 08-04-2011   #60
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Default Re: Secondary Getting Extra Attention.

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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Hopefully, Wade isn't using that ridiculous shuffle-step that Bush was re-training the DBs to do last year.

I'm surprised it isn't mentioned more.

I've always suspected that the shuffle-step technique was responsible for a large number of slips, trips and falls by our secondary.


---
Excellent point. I had completely forgotten about that.
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