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That cheapskate McNair!
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
No.
One offseason is not a trend. He does it again, and then it'll be dropped.
One offseason is not a trend. He does it again, and then it'll be dropped.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
He won't have a choice in 2013 and beyond. 90% of the current cap is 108 million, so if that's the floor in 2013, he will be forced to stay above that number. I really do wonder how that is going to work though, will teams way under the cap rework contracts for star players to pay them a bunch in one year to meet the minimum?
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I've always thought it was a silly and baseless reason to criticize McNair. He's got his faults but this isn't one of them.
michaelm
vox nihili
I'm not sure where the trend is re: the willingness to spend money.
It was never an issue, IMO, so there is not a cheapness trend to point to.
I'm surprised at how people confuse poor scouting, poor talent recognition, and poor personnel decisions with cheapness.
"We over paid Ahman Green"
"We over paid Eric Moulds"
"We over paid Antonio Smith"
etc...
"The Texans have to over pay good free agents to get them to come here"
There has been a consistent theme of people complaining about the Texans over paying for this or that, and the team is always up near the salary cap.
We have conversations every single year about how much room they have under the cap (usually not a lot)
I can't for the life of me figure out how that translates to cheapness.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This ^^^^^^^^^
It could have possibly been that Rick Smith and Kubiak wanted to go after all kinds of free agents over the years, but Bob said no the majority of the time handicapping them of filling holes and improving the team through free agency. We'll never know 100%, but they all got the blame for 5 years of ineptitude.
GP
Go Texans!
This is valid.
What if we shed players and go back to turtling up?
Those guys are going to have to figure out how to keep Joseph, Manning, Vickers, Foster, Andre Johnson, Mario, Schaub, and a whole slew of tweeners like Cushing.
Granted, I know not all of their contracts expire at the same time...but still, they have to figure out how to structure things so that we keep what we have AND go after new players who hit free agency.
What if some of our guys are injured and can't return? What if DeMeco can't handle it anymore? What if Cushing's knee is worse than we know? What if Andre gets injured so badly that he's not the same AJ anymore?
What about a Schaub injury that renders him less than optimal strength?
Running back injuries or Arian demanding a trade to a bigger better team, just because he "can"?
So many things can happen, and these front office guys have got to play the free agency system and the draft with high degree of difficulty.
I will obviously shut up for now. But if this is just a vacation from reality, with us returning to our mundane Texans life a few seasons from now? Well, I guess every 10 years we get to have some fun around here.
Maybe BOTH sides should drop it?
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
The salary cap is the salary cap, it's a fixed price. That's really Rick Smith's responsibility to manage for McNair and to get Kubes the players he needs within those parameters.
McNair pays the FO and coaching staff for which there isn't a cap. Kubiak is a highly paid coach.
So I have never understood the comments.
McNair pays the FO and coaching staff for which there isn't a cap. Kubiak is a highly paid coach.
So I have never understood the comments.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Great rebuttal. Maybe you should just neg rep him and run instead like you did with me. That will really show him.
Bob's history of running a franchise and making decisions surely has given the fans the benefit of the doubt now hasn't it. But carry on though, I'd hate to interfere with your insults of the entire fan base.
Probably the best idea yet. This thread was certainly started to be a fire burner.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
I never really thought he was cheap. That has never been my issue with him.
My issue has been the dumbass coaches who are too stubborn unless they know that this time, for real, like seriously, no for real, they will be fired if no playoffs or less than probably 11-5 without playoffs (or at least you would think but clearly Kubiak has 4 leaf clover DNA to still have his job).
Remember last year when Kareem was getting burnt/falling all over the field and all we heard was "we'll stick with what we've got" and all that other BS and they just kept sticking him out there, game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,...
Get my point. (Still so effing pissed about the SD game last year where some no namer Ajiritoutou or some such nonsense burned us up for 2 TD's and a career day!!!!!!!!)
So basically, I guess what I am saying is I want him to slide a little farther away from the plaid picnic table cover and basket and a little closer to a (dare I say) Jerra type......hear me out before you go ape ****. I'm not saying become Jerra, but having a little of that in you may not be bad.
Also the whole "character" only guys is getting old too.
Just IMO.
My issue has been the dumbass coaches who are too stubborn unless they know that this time, for real, like seriously, no for real, they will be fired if no playoffs or less than probably 11-5 without playoffs (or at least you would think but clearly Kubiak has 4 leaf clover DNA to still have his job).
Remember last year when Kareem was getting burnt/falling all over the field and all we heard was "we'll stick with what we've got" and all that other BS and they just kept sticking him out there, game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,game after game,...
Get my point. (Still so effing pissed about the SD game last year where some no namer Ajiritoutou or some such nonsense burned us up for 2 TD's and a career day!!!!!!!!)
So basically, I guess what I am saying is I want him to slide a little farther away from the plaid picnic table cover and basket and a little closer to a (dare I say) Jerra type......hear me out before you go ape ****. I'm not saying become Jerra, but having a little of that in you may not be bad.
Also the whole "character" only guys is getting old too.
Just IMO.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
You can blame McNair for his choices of FO personel, but calling him cheap has been ridiculous. Sure, we've sucked but have always been bumping the max of the cap. McNair has never been a Jerry Jones type owner that sticks his face in decisions that are usually left up to GMs and coach's. He pays Smith and crew to do their job and has always ponied up the cabbage when asked. Now, I'm sure he has final say in big money. But since we've been up against the cap year in year out I reckon he's said yes a majority of the time
Personel decisions have not been very good, period.
*This is going to be my only comment on this subject since we now have football....unless I'm challenged by someone I care to discuss with
Personel decisions have not been very good, period.
*This is going to be my only comment on this subject since we now have football....unless I'm challenged by someone I care to discuss with
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/team
Not sure 2010's numbers. And we're one of seven teams over the cap for 2011 so.....
McNair could have said no all he wanted but the fact still remains that we've had some of the highest payrolls during our existence. I'd argue that when the regime changed in 2006 he did make a concerted effort to spend wisely. Not cheaply. We had tons of bad signings that led to dead money. 2006, 2007, 2008 was used to help clear some of that and get the team healthy. We've been in good situations financial the last few years because of that prudence, not cheapness. Let's not confuse the two.
What are the thoughts on extending the contracts recently of Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans and Owen Daniels. Each making them near the highest paid at their respective positions? Keeping Schaub and paying his $10 Million bonus. Bringing in Wade Phillips and making him the highest paid DC in the league...
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
badboy
Hall of Fame
Actually, Texecutioner, I was hoping all would mumble a bit, say good job but prove your player/coaching decisions were good ones and then go back to football. I am a bit naive.
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
Funniest Blind Squirrel reference ever man. Wish I could rep ya, but I did yesterday.
I got him for ya, and added to yours for the guy neg rep'ing you... My rep power rules!
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't take you for a trouble maker or anything. Not really your style, but you should have known what kind of potential this one had. No big deal. Hopefully, this season is the big start in the right direction and next year the trend can continue.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I got him for ya, and added to yours for the guy neg rep'ing you... My rep power rules!
Thanks big dog. Read your message as well. Back atcha!!!
GP
Go Texans!
Thanks guys.
Toan and SteveSlaton20 are swimming upstream here. You two guys neg rep us, and we'll just band together and (1) neg rep YOU and get yours down to zero. And we'll then go out and (2) Positive rep ourselves and boost us up four times where we were before.
And if you say "It's sad that you think rep means anything," then why in the hell are you neg repping like little Nancies in the first place???
The rep system works. It shows who tries to be a good board member and who plays shenanigans and tries to be a bully.
Toan and SteveSlaton20 are swimming upstream here. You two guys neg rep us, and we'll just band together and (1) neg rep YOU and get yours down to zero. And we'll then go out and (2) Positive rep ourselves and boost us up four times where we were before.
And if you say "It's sad that you think rep means anything," then why in the hell are you neg repping like little Nancies in the first place???
The rep system works. It shows who tries to be a good board member and who plays shenanigans and tries to be a bully.
GP
Go Texans!
I got him for ya, and added to yours for the guy neg rep'ing you... My rep power rules!
Rep your way, too. I got you a +75 boost.
Toan and SteveSlaton20 are the good cholesterol of the message board health system. Thanks you two!
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You see this is the worst example you could make though. There are teams in the NFL every season that do really well from improving their team in free agency. It's the free agency fear mongers that always want to point at the Redskins or the Cowboys and act like that's always what happens if you try to improve your team in free agency with quality players. It's always some "Redskins" reference as if going after a quality player to fill a hole on your team is like buying a car on the internet without getting to check the engine or get a "Car Faxx" to find out the history. The Redskins references are old and they're not the norm. I wish people would stop trying to point to Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones every single time a player is mentioned that could help out the Texans possibly. At least in free agency you have a strong idea of what kind of guy you're bringing to your team and if he can play in the NFL or not. IN the draft you're always rolling the dice on potential.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I don't take you for a trouble maker or anything. Not really your style, but you should have known what kind of potential this one had. No big deal. Hopefully, this season is the big start in the right direction and next year the trend can continue.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Free agency is a tool just like the draft or scouts or trainers; if used effectively your team gets better. Hipefully, we are now in a position to start using the draft & BPA to strengthen team into a perenial powerhouse. We could then use FA if that just right player at just right price comes along. The new television deal should really be a sweet one as sponsors too were scared of no football & probably was a wake up call for them also.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Lol!!! Where in my post did I ever say that no team will improve by using free agency. Like I said, free agency should be used smartly. Quality teams use free agency to tune up their teams but they don't build their teams through free agency. Teams that target the "star" free agents every year don't really improve that much. And yes, I will use Snyder and Jones as those people that do that. And they have squat to show for it. Unlike the Eagles who build through the draft and target a high price free agent once in a while to try to put them over the top.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
The Eagles have been probably just as aggressive in FA or even more than the Skins over the last few years. They're actually a great example to make as to why FA works to improve your team. They've been fantastic at it. They just haven't been as stupid as the Skins as far as who they've picked up and who they've paid.
And you say that a team can't build off of it?? Well I disagree and there are examples to show for it. Just look at Seattle last season. They were going nowhere. Carroll went in there and put a lot of new pieces in place and made that team respectable again in one off season where they ended up over achieving and even beat the former SB champs in the playoffs when they weren't supposed to go anywhere last season. This year, they've stacked that team with Rice, Zach Miller, added a QB in Jackson which isn't great but they still have added more pieces and now they've got a very nice receiving core. They also added Lynch through trade last season which is also sort of like using free agency.
Look at what the Jets did. They weren't looking to go anywhere and in one off season Rex brought a team all the way to the AFC championship and then reloaded with all kinds of guys in the off season last year and went right back just barely losing in both games.
These are just current examples of teams that have turned around fast and have a nice roster because of it. I don't even understand why people use the term or the idea of "building through the draft," because unless you're going to sit out of the entire draft which no team would ever do then you're always building through the draft ever season. It's pretty much a rule to draft players.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Yeah and what's amazing is how all of a sudden Wade comes along and most likely says he wants this or that defensive player and wala we are getting them or going after them.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Bingo!!! That's my whole point. Teams have to be smart with their money and not throw it away at someone who is very risky. Asante Samuel and Aso were very low risk signings. Fat Albert was a huge risk and it blew up in their face.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
What do you mean "the past".....Billionaire Bob didn't pony up enough to get Aso!!
I'm glad you got that out of the way!!
No, this is not valid. You are missing the point completely.
McNair has spent money year after year after year on players. He throws money away on guys like David Car & he's bent over backwards to give Andre Johnson money. 3 huge contracts in a 6 year period, do you remember that?
Antonio Smith, remember him? Jacques Reeves, I think he got as much money as the top CB that year.
It has never been a pocket book problem. The problem has been who Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak decided to give that money to.
This offseason just happen to work to the Texans' philosophy. JJo & DMan are the same type of FA they've always gone after, young, in their primes or entering.....
Not paying Dunta was definitely a turning point for the Texans if you ask me..... demanding a player be able to live up to their paycheck.
Can someone neg rep this guy for me?
GP
Go Texans!
I think you think Gary and Rick are like managers of a Costco who get to hire their own employees with no approval needed from above.
Bob McNair is not going to spend any kind of money on people he doesn't want to spend money on.
I seriously doubt McNair builds model trains up in his penthouse suite while Rick and Gary are free to add or cut any person they want: See the issues with Carr and Dunta, two guys whom Bob loved like his own sons and wouldn't let go without a fight. Case closed.
You're attempting to acquit Bob McNair of being an accessory to this crime, and it doesn't wash TK. He was signing the checks, he was being told who was out there, and he could have made any number of moves. Unless we're to believe that all McNair does is sit around and count his cash and stroll the vacant walkways of Reliant, checking up on the hot dog stand and making sure the hot dogs taste good while Gary and Rick play boss all day. Whatever.
Bob McNair finally waved the white flag of surrender. The first domino to fall was hiring a proven d-coord, and I won't buy for one single second that Richard Smith nor Frank Bush were solely the choices of Kubiak--This would be, once again, trying to act like Bob is out pruning flowers with his wife while Gary and Rick oversee his estate. Not happenin'. Bob just figured it was time to play Big Boy Football. Period.
And THAT is the bottom line. That' how we got here: Bob tried it one way--HIS way--and he's had to totally throw in all his chips and go all in. Maybe he looked back on his weepy act when the owners patted him on the back for the Ravens overtime loss and figured he looked like the schmuck everybody thought him to be back then? Maybe Bob isn't getting angry...he's getting EVEN? 'Bout damn time.
The only thing I agree with you is that NOW was somehow the most perfect storm for Bob to throw his chips in. That's the sort of good fortune that quite frankly has been due to us for the past 10 years now. After the shitty expansion draft offerings we had to choose from, this is putting things back to a level footing IMO.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Rep requires spelling and grammar??
We're talking about McNair being cheap. If you want to change the subject & blame McNair for Rick & Gary's decisions.... fine. I'm not arguing that.
It does not matter
It does not matter
It does not matter
who they gave the money to
who they gave the money to
who they gave the money to
He can't be cheap if he's spending money
He can't be cheap if he's spending money
He can't be cheap if he's spending money
The only difference now, is that you agree with the guys they've picked up. He's not spending any more money than before. Had they signed Aso... maybe that support your position.
But signing Manning and Joseph doesn't make him any less cheap than he's been in the past.
It's the same type of signing.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
This thread is just going to end with the "Cheapers" saying McNair is still cheap and he needs to put the team in salary cap hell (Which now exists again) before they are satisfied. . .
While the public defenders state that he's always been spending money.
It'll be a circular argument and basically you're almost never going to get rid of every person who thinks McNair is cheap, because those people will hold on to their pessimistic values until the Texans organization goes above and beyond some very high bars that the Cheapers have set for the team.
Should probably just drop it at this point.
While the public defenders state that he's always been spending money.
It'll be a circular argument and basically you're almost never going to get rid of every person who thinks McNair is cheap, because those people will hold on to their pessimistic values until the Texans organization goes above and beyond some very high bars that the Cheapers have set for the team.
Should probably just drop it at this point.
GP
Go Texans!
Oh, I was thinking we went over the cap or something. So we're not spending any more now than we have in the past???
Several guys are going to have to restructure contracts. That's a first out of the past 10 years of football here. Must be spending more and not less.
Coaches were hired on the cheap, too. I bet Wade is making hella' more money than the past two guys combined.
Bob has seen the light.
Fred
Veteran
Must spread rep...
No, you are missing the point completely. The point is delusional people who think the number one problem with the Texans is that Bob is cheap are positive repping themselves and neg repping anyone who says something true. I expect your rep to drop below zero any second now.
For some people the problem has to be the owner because it would be hard to watch the games of their crummy team if they admitted the players sucked or that the head coach was a blithering doofus. While all the signings this year seem great, I'm having a hard time getting excited because the head coach will still be ... Gary Kubiak. (If Foster runs for over 200 yards against Indy to lead us to victory, and then in the game at Indy we come out passing every down, Wade better punch Gary in the face, ala Buddy Ryan).
To blame the owner, he has to be a "meddler" or a "cheapskate". Bob isn't really a "meddler" so he must be a "cheapskate". The fact that the Texans payroll has always been high is not relevant - and anyone who says it is will be negative repped! (Actually I think Bob is a low-grade meddler. Not a Jerra or Danny, but probably not supportive of bringing in the Rae Curruths and Pacman Jones of the world.)
If Joseph, Manning, and Vickers all fall short of expectations it will be because Billionaire Bob was CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP going into this season.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Rep requires spelling and grammar??
Huh?
I was poking fun at Steve Slaton.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Repped for truth.
Umm, not being sarcastic here, but have you had a proper look around these theads?
drs23
Veteran
Well said. Good post.
Blake
MMQB
This thread is lame. Basically yall are defending McNair by saying he is over the cap and spends alot, but at the same time are displaying how stupid he is with his money on bad contracts for over the hill players.
Ahman Green
Todd Wade
Anthony Weaver
Robaire Smith
Morlon Greenwood
Eric Moulds
10 years. 1 winning record. Zero playoff appearances. And last year the 2nd worst secondary in NFL history. Congrats McNair. You paid millions and millions for mediocrity.
Yay! McNair isnt cheap, he is stupid! /Thread.
Ahman Green
Todd Wade
Anthony Weaver
Robaire Smith
Morlon Greenwood
Eric Moulds
10 years. 1 winning record. Zero playoff appearances. And last year the 2nd worst secondary in NFL history. Congrats McNair. You paid millions and millions for mediocrity.
Yay! McNair isnt cheap, he is stupid! /Thread.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
McNair is the GM?
Blake
MMQB
It all comes from the top down brother.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
That's my beef with the crowd that calls McNair cheap. It's a completely baseless arguement. There's plenty of stuff to complain about: Bad signings, no playoff appearances, etc etc. But calling him cheap just smells of desperation for fans to find something, anything, to complain about even if it's completely false.