That cheapskate McNair!

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by FirstTexansFan

I got him for ya, and added to yours for the guy neg rep'ing you... My rep power rules!

Thanks big dog. Read your message as well. Back atcha!!!

[GP]

Thanks guys.

Toan and SteveSlaton20 are swimming upstream here. You two guys neg rep us, and we'll just band together and (1) neg rep YOU and get yours down to zero. And we'll then go out and (2) Positive rep ourselves and boost us up four times where we were before.

And if you say "It's sad that you think rep means anything," then why in the hell are you neg repping like little Nancies in the first place???

The rep system works. It shows who tries to be a good board member and who plays shenanigans and tries to be a bully.

[GP]

Originally Posted by FirstTexansFan

I got him for ya, and added to yours for the guy neg rep'ing you... My rep power rules!

Rep your way, too. I got you a +75 boost.

Toan and SteveSlaton20 are the good cholesterol of the message board health system. Thanks you two!

[stingray]

Free agency should be used to complete a good team not to make a good team. Just look at where it got the Redskins when they were throwing money like Pac Man jones at a strip bar. It got them in cap hell and a very mediocre team.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by stingray

Free agency should be used to complete a good team not to make it a good team. Just look at where it got the Redskins when they were throwing money like Pac Man jones at a strip bar. It got them in cap hell and a very mediocre team.

You see this is the worst example you could make though. There are teams in the NFL every season that do really well from improving their team in free agency. It's the free agency fear mongers that always want to point at the Redskins or the Cowboys and act like that's always what happens if you try to improve your team in free agency with quality players. It's always some "Redskins" reference as if going after a quality player to fill a hole on your team is like buying a car on the internet without getting to check the engine or get a "Car Faxx" to find out the history. The Redskins references are old and they're not the norm. I wish people would stop trying to point to Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones every single time a player is mentioned that could help out the Texans possibly. At least in free agency you have a strong idea of what kind of guy you're bringing to your team and if he can play in the NFL or not. IN the draft you're always rolling the dice on potential.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I don't take you for a trouble maker or anything. Not really your style, but you should have known what kind of potential this one had. No big deal. Hopefully, this season is the big start in the right direction and next year the trend can continue.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by stingray

Free agency should be used to complete a good team not to make a good team. Just look at where it got the Redskins when they were throwing money like Pac Man jones at a strip bar. It got them in cap hell and a very mediocre team.

Free agency is a tool just like the draft or scouts or trainers; if used effectively your team gets better. Hipefully, we are now in a position to start using the draft & BPA to strengthen team into a perenial powerhouse. We could then use FA if that just right player at just right price comes along. The new television deal should really be a sweet one as sponsors too were scared of no football & probably was a wake up call for them also.

[stingray]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

You see this is the worst example you could make though. There are teams in the NFL every season that do really well from improving their team in free agency. It's the free agency fear mongers that always want to point at the Redskins or the Cowboys and act like that's always what happens if you try to improve your team in free agency with quality players. It's always some "Redskins" reference as if going after a quality player to fill a hole on your team is like buying a car on the internet without getting to check the engine or get a "Car Faxx" to find out the history. The Redskins references are old and they're not the norm. I wish people would stop trying to point to Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones every single time a player is mentioned that could help out the Texans possibly. At least in free agency you have a strong idea of what kind of guy you're bringing to your team and if he can play in the NFL or not. IN the draft you're always rolling the dice on potential.

Lol!!! Where in my post did I ever say that no team will improve by using free agency. Like I said, free agency should be used smartly. Quality teams use free agency to tune up their teams but they don't build their teams through free agency. Teams that target the "star" free agents every year don't really improve that much. And yes, I will use Snyder and Jones as those people that do that. And they have squat to show for it. Unlike the Eagles who build through the draft and target a high price free agent once in a while to try to put them over the top.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by stingray

Lol!!! Where in my post did I ever say that no team will improve by using free agency. Like I said, free agency should be used smartly. Quality teams use free agency to tune up their teams but they don't build their teams through free agency. Teams that target the "star" free agents every year don't really improve that much. And yes, I will use Schneider and Jones as those people that do that. And they have squat to show for it. Unlike the Eagles who build through the draft and target a high price free agent once in a while to try to put them over the top.

The Eagles have been probably just as aggressive in FA or even more than the Skins over the last few years. They're actually a great example to make as to why FA works to improve your team. They've been fantastic at it. They just haven't been as stupid as the Skins as far as who they've picked up and who they've paid.

And you say that a team can't build off of it?? Well I disagree and there are examples to show for it. Just look at Seattle last season. They were going nowhere. Carroll went in there and put a lot of new pieces in place and made that team respectable again in one off season where they ended up over achieving and even beat the former SB champs in the playoffs when they weren't supposed to go anywhere last season. This year, they've stacked that team with Rice, Zach Miller, added a QB in Jackson which isn't great but they still have added more pieces and now they've got a very nice receiving core. They also added Lynch through trade last season which is also sort of like using free agency.

Look at what the Jets did. They weren't looking to go anywhere and in one off season Rex brought a team all the way to the AFC championship and then reloaded with all kinds of guys in the off season last year and went right back just barely losing in both games.

These are just current examples of teams that have turned around fast and have a nice roster because of it. I don't even understand why people use the term or the idea of "building through the draft," because unless you're going to sit out of the entire draft which no team would ever do then you're always building through the draft ever season. It's pretty much a rule to draft players.

[El Tejano]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

This ^^^^^^^^^




It could have possibly been that Rick Smith and Kubiak wanted to go after all kinds of free agents over the years, but Bob said no the majority of the time handicapping them of filling holes and improving the team through free agency. We'll never know 100%, but they all got the blame for 5 years of ineptitude.

Yeah and what's amazing is how all of a sudden Wade comes along and most likely says he wants this or that defensive player and wala we are getting them or going after them.

[stingray]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

The Eagles have been probably just as aggressive in FA or even more than the Skins over the last few years. They're actually a great example to make as to why FA works to improve your team. They've been fantastic at it. They just haven't been as stupid as the Skins as far as who they've picked up and who they've paid.

Bingo!!! That's my whole point. Teams have to be smart with their money and not throw it away at someone who is very risky. Asante Samuel and Aso were very low risk signings. Fat Albert was a huge risk and it blew up in their face.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by disaacks3

What do you mean "the past".....Billionaire Bob didn't pony up enough to get Aso!!

I'm glad you got that out of the way!!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by GP

This is valid.

What if we shed players and go back to turtling up?

No, this is not valid. You are missing the point completely.

McNair has spent money year after year after year on players. He throws money away on guys like David Car & he's bent over backwards to give Andre Johnson money. 3 huge contracts in a 6 year period, do you remember that?

Antonio Smith, remember him? Jacques Reeves, I think he got as much money as the top CB that year.

It has never been a pocket book problem. The problem has been who Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak decided to give that money to.

This offseason just happen to work to the Texans' philosophy. JJo & DMan are the same type of FA they've always gone after, young, in their primes or entering.....

Not paying Dunta was definitely a turning point for the Texans if you ask me..... demanding a player be able to live up to their paycheck.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Great rebuttal. Maybe you should just neg rep him and run.....

Can someone neg rep this guy for me?

[GP]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

No, this is not valid. You are missing the point completely.

McNair has spent money year after year after year on players. He throws money away on guys like David Car & he's bent over backwards to give Andre Johnson money. 3 huge contracts in a 6 year period, do you remember that?

Antonio Smith, remember him? Jacques Reeves, I think he got as much money as the top CB that year.

It has never been a pocket book problem. The problem has been who Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak decided to give that money to.

This offseason just happen to work to the Texans' philosophy. JJo & DMan are the same type of FA they've always gone after, young, in their primes or entering.....

Not paying Dunta was definitely a turning point for the Texans if you ask me..... demanding a player be able to live up to their paycheck.

I think you think Gary and Rick are like managers of a Costco who get to hire their own employees with no approval needed from above.

Bob McNair is not going to spend any kind of money on people he doesn't want to spend money on.

I seriously doubt McNair builds model trains up in his penthouse suite while Rick and Gary are free to add or cut any person they want: See the issues with Carr and Dunta, two guys whom Bob loved like his own sons and wouldn't let go without a fight. Case closed.

You're attempting to acquit Bob McNair of being an accessory to this crime, and it doesn't wash TK. He was signing the checks, he was being told who was out there, and he could have made any number of moves. Unless we're to believe that all McNair does is sit around and count his cash and stroll the vacant walkways of Reliant, checking up on the hot dog stand and making sure the hot dogs taste good while Gary and Rick play boss all day. Whatever.

Bob McNair finally waved the white flag of surrender. The first domino to fall was hiring a proven d-coord, and I won't buy for one single second that Richard Smith nor Frank Bush were solely the choices of Kubiak--This would be, once again, trying to act like Bob is out pruning flowers with his wife while Gary and Rick oversee his estate. Not happenin'. Bob just figured it was time to play Big Boy Football. Period.

And THAT is the bottom line. That' how we got here: Bob tried it one way--HIS way--and he's had to totally throw in all his chips and go all in. Maybe he looked back on his weepy act when the owners patted him on the back for the Ravens overtime loss and figured he looked like the schmuck everybody thought him to be back then? Maybe Bob isn't getting angry...he's getting EVEN? 'Bout damn time.

The only thing I agree with you is that NOW was somehow the most perfect storm for Bob to throw his chips in. That's the sort of good fortune that quite frankly has been due to us for the past 10 years now. After the ****ty expansion draft offerings we had to choose from, this is putting things back to a level footing IMO.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by GP

Thanks guys.

Toan and SteveSlaton20 are swimming upstream here. You two guys neg rep us, and we'll just band together and (1) neg rep YOU and get yours down to zero. And we'll then go out and (2) Positive rep ourselves and boost us up four times where we were before.

And if you say "It's sad that you think rep means anything," then why in the hell are you neg repping like little Nancies in the first place???

The rep system works. It shows who tries to be a good board member and who plays shenanigans and tries to be a bully.

Steve Slaton probably didn't mean to neg rep you, but rather he fumbled the mouse click and accidentally hit the wrong button...

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Steve Slaton probably didn't mean to neg rep you, but rather he fumbled the mouse click and accidentally hit the wrong button...

Rep requires spelling and grammar??

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by GP

You're attempting to acquit Bob McNair of being an accessory to this crime, and it doesn't wash TK. He was signing the checks...

We're talking about McNair being cheap. If you want to change the subject & blame McNair for Rick & Gary's decisions.... fine. I'm not arguing that.

It does not matter

It does not matter

It does not matter

who they gave the money to

who they gave the money to

who they gave the money to

He can't be cheap if he's spending money

He can't be cheap if he's spending money

He can't be cheap if he's spending money


The only difference now, is that you agree with the guys they've picked up. He's not spending any more money than before. Had they signed Aso... maybe that support your position.


But signing Manning and Joseph doesn't make him any less cheap than he's been in the past.


It's the same type of signing.

[b0ng]

This thread is just going to end with the "Cheapers" saying McNair is still cheap and he needs to put the team in salary cap hell (Which now exists again) before they are satisfied. . .

While the public defenders state that he's always been spending money.

It'll be a circular argument and basically you're almost never going to get rid of every person who thinks McNair is cheap, because those people will hold on to their pessimistic values until the Texans organization goes above and beyond some very high bars that the Cheapers have set for the team.

Should probably just drop it at this point.

[GP]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

The only difference now, is that you agree with the guys they've picked up. He's not spending any more money than before.

Oh, I was thinking we went over the cap or something. So we're not spending any more now than we have in the past???

Several guys are going to have to restructure contracts. That's a first out of the past 10 years of football here. Must be spending more and not less.

Coaches were hired on the cheap, too. I bet Wade is making hella' more money than the past two guys combined.

Bob has seen the light.