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Old 08-10-2011   #181
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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Can't argue that but we also haven't played any Moths.
That is going to be the new LA team...Los Angeles Moths
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Old 08-10-2011   #182
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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I agree with 100% of this message. This message has been approved by HF

I'm not sure why people are peeved at Lombardi. Rex Ryan called the Texans soft and that is how they prepared before playing them. Most hard nosed 3-4 type teams have taken it to the Texans. I think alot of the stigma isn't exactly "look how badass we are" but "do you start games punching a guy in the mouth and then do it for 4 quarters." When is the last time the Texans punched a team in the moth, much less played a full 4 quarters? Most here have used the soft label before. From Gary in his pressers to McNair's comments last season, the "aura" is that of a very nice group of people who won't punch in the face. Not hating, that has just been the reality. As for Winston...I've already let loose on that guy. Not my favorite when it comes to being all things media, all the time..especially for an average/above average lineman.I actually think the Cushing pick and now the Watt pick are because the coaches know that soft is the stigma.
Rex Ryan's team beat us on opening day because our defense was atrocious. A rookie QB starting his first NFL game ever was able to nickel and dime his way against us.

Our offensive line also didn't show up that day, so I guess there's a perceived "softness" problem.

I still come back to the problem of us having virtually NO defense whatsoever for the past four years. The thing that I love about NFL, or football in general, is that it's the only major sport where you have TWO teams within the team--You have an offense and its players, and you have a defense and its own players on it. One side can do great, but if the other side does poorly...it can take great and make it worthless. In football, you have to take 22 players and make them great at what each "team" does out there.

We just simply could not stop the bleeding on the defense side of our team. Great offenses seemingly can be undone by poor defenses (see the Oilers-Bills playoff game, and the Oilers altogether from that era). Our offense can generate points, so much so that they can even wait until the 4th quarter if they want to. But our defense? Oy. They almost let the Colts back into our opening game last year, except Arian and the offense kept pouring on the TDs for every TD the Colts got at the end of the game. It was that game that foreshadowed the year to come for us: If our offense didn't match other teams' point production, we were screwed. If we didn't hold the ball and score at the end of games, we were screwed.

The demise of our defense this past year looked almost like a mirror image of the demise of our offense at the culmination of the David Carr era. Both situations saw a semi-competent offense/defense that ultimately could not weather the multiple years of abuse inflicted upon it.

I can't sit here and call it "softness" that has been our enemy. I feel like ownership decisions played more of a role than anything else. Coaches? Players? Systems? It's all connected to the owner who signs off on it and says "Yes, this is what I like. Carry on." To me, Bob McNair had some sort of ideal in his head that he must have torn up and thrown into his fireplace at the end of 2010. Slow and steady seems to have been tossed aside.

I was watching an NFLN show that was behind-the-scenes of the Chiefs 2007 season. Carl Peterson, President, was running the show in the conference room when coaches (Herm Edwards, HC) were talking about who should be cut and who should make the 53-man roster. Was very interesting to watch how much Carl Peterson dominated that whole scene. He sat at the head of the table, and Herm Edwards looked like a dog begging for scraps. Every player Herm wanted, Carl would question him on it and then even go so far as to go around the table and see if his coaches agreed with Herm or not. Lots and lots of other scenes where you can see Herm Edwards pretty much kow-towing (sp?) to Peterson.

I won't say that Kubiak and Smith ALWAYS defer to McNair. But I also won't sit here and say that McNair always defers to Smithiak, either. All I am trying to say is that there are unique dynamics that affect the team much more than whether we have ball sack or not. I can't even understand how a tougher ball sack overcomes poor players and a poor system using those poor players.

Whether it was Bob, or Gary, or Rick, or all three of 'em is not relevant to me...What IS relevant to me is that they all own the problems of this team as it relates to a poor offense and poor players on offense in Carr era (McNair owns that one), coupled with poor players and poor defense in the Schaub era (Bob has a share in this one).

What's funny is that if our BETTER d-coord, our BETTER defensive system, and our BETTER defensive players actually cause this team to soar in 2011...people (Lombardi included) will say we toughened up our nut sack to the level of Kevlar armor. LOL. Riiiiiiiight.
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Old 08-10-2011   #183
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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Rex Ryan's team beat us on opening day because our defense was atrocious. A rookie QB starting his first NFL game ever was able to nickel and dime his way against us.

We just simply could not stop the bleeding on the defense side of our team. Great offenses seemingly can be undone by poor defenses (see the Oilers-Bills playoff game, and the Oilers altogether from that era). Our offense can generate points, so much so that they can even wait until the 4th quarter if they want to. But our defense? Oy. They almost let the Colts back into our opening game last year, except Arian and the offense kept pouring on the TDs for every TD the Colts got at the end of the game. It was that game that foreshadowed the year to come for us: If our offense didn't match other teams' point production, we were screwed. If we didn't hold the ball and score at the end of games, we were screwed.

.
Sorry but I'm ignoring alot of that to concentrate on the quoted because I keep hearing that is because of the poor defense. It isn't. When I mentioned 3-4 type tough teams taking it to the Texans it was an offensive problem too. That is where the soft label comes in. Most of these teams had basically shut down the offense for a good part of the game and the Texans comebacks were late when they threw non-stop. The offense doesn't come out, punch teams in the mouth and then steps on the neck for a game. They come out and Gary "feels out his opponent", tries some new wrinkles and then when the game is getting out of control because the D sucks and the O has been uninspired and stagnent, they let it ride and start throwing and getting aggressive. Other teams know this. Look at the teams that have gotten to them..Giants, Cowboys, Jets, Ravens (early)etc...all had guys who got to the QB and who could force 3 and outs if needed. It is a team mindset..not one side is better than the other. It is how they start games and play throughout a game.
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Old 08-10-2011   #184
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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Sorry but I'm ignoring alot of that to concentrate on the quoted because I keep hearing that is because of the poor defense. It isn't. When I mentioned 3-4 type tough teams taking it to the Texans it was an offensive problem too. That is where the soft label comes in. Most of these teams had basically shut down the offense for a good part of the game and the Texans comebacks were late when they threw non-stop. The offense doesn't come out, punch teams in the mouth and then steps on the neck for a game. They come out and Gary "feels out his opponent", tries some new wrinkles and then when the game is getting out of control because the D sucks and the O has been uninspired and stagnent, they let it ride and start throwing and getting aggressive. Other teams know this. Look at the teams that have gotten to them..Giants, Cowboys, Jets, Ravens (early)etc...all had guys who got to the QB and who could force 3 and outs if needed. It is a team mindset..not one side is better than the other. It is how they start games and play throughout a game.
Even if we came out and punched defenses in the nose, OUR defense would give it back to the opposing offense. You know that. I know that. No better game shows that than the opening game vs. Colts.

We also had a 4-3 defense until now, which means Schaub & Co. faced a 4-3 mindset (even if our defense TRIED to emulate a 3-4 certain practices) during practices. The players in that system, specifically the Texans secondary would make Pee Wee Herman soar in practice and come crashing down come gameday vs. a legitimate 3-4 defense. Is it any surprise that the TC reports show a defense that is dominating every day? Nope. Because Wade is throwing the same things at Schaub and the o-line as what Rex Ryan threw at us and other 3-4 gurus threw at us in the past.

Schaub & Co. are getting a new education this year. And I think that's AWESOME. Better prep for the real thing in Sundays.

We beat the Patriots two years ago (at Reliant), final game IIRC. Did we toughen up and win that game, or did the Patriots just lay down and die for us? We need to go back and look at comments in that thread before you answer

We beat the Packers at Lambeau that same season, IIRC, on what was a brutally cold and snowy day. Schaub and teammates were electric all game long. I feel our defense should have helped out more in that game, but the end result was a W for the soft guys.

Toughness is not the silver bullet here. It's shiny, it's metal, and it's a bullet. But it's not pure silver.
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Old 08-10-2011   #185
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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Even if we came out and punched defenses in the nose, OUR defense would give it back to the opposing offense. You know that. I know that. No better game shows that than the opening game vs. Colts.

We also had a 4-3 defense until now, which means Schaub & Co. faced a 4-3 mindset (even if our defense TRIED to emulate a 3-4 certain practices) during practices. The players in that system, specifically the Texans secondary would make Pee Wee Herman soar in practice and come crashing down come gameday vs. a legitimate 3-4 defense. Is it any surprise that the TC reports show a defense that is dominating every day? Nope. Because Wade is throwing the same things at Schaub and the o-line as what Rex Ryan threw at us and other 3-4 gurus threw at us in the past.

Schaub & Co. are getting a new education this year. And I think that's AWESOME. Better prep for the real thing in Sundays.

We beat the Patriots two years ago (at Reliant), final game IIRC. Did we toughen up and win that game, or did the Patriots just lay down and die for us? We need to go back and look at comments in that thread before you answer

We beat the Packers at Lambeau that same season, IIRC, on what was a brutally cold and snowy day. Schaub and teammates were electric all game long. I feel our defense should have helped out more in that game, but the end result was a W for the soft guys.

Toughness is not the silver bullet here. It's shiny, it's metal, and it's a bullet. But it's not pure silver.
Honestly, I'm not sure what any of this means .

That Pats game was nothing for them. Not when you are pulling your most important players in stretches. As far as the D giving the points back...who cares? That isn't the point. The point is that the offense didn't do that and for a majority of games they come out flat and get punched instead of vice/versa. Thus the label. I mean this label isn't new and other teams/coaches have talked about it. Two-3 games over the years doesn't change that.
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Old 08-10-2011   #186
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

Here is a good podcast from LZ with Mike - http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootbal...efensive-line/

"If you want to be a physical team you've got to practice physical"
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Old 08-10-2011   #187
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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Even if we came out and punched defenses in the nose, OUR defense would give it back to the opposing offense. You know that. I know that. No better game shows that than the opening game vs. Colts.

We also had a 4-3 defense until now, which means Schaub & Co. faced a 4-3 mindset (even if our defense TRIED to emulate a 3-4 certain practices) during practices. The players in that system, specifically the Texans secondary would make Pee Wee Herman soar in practice and come crashing down come gameday vs. a legitimate 3-4 defense. Is it any surprise that the TC reports show a defense that is dominating every day? Nope. Because Wade is throwing the same things at Schaub and the o-line as what Rex Ryan threw at us and other 3-4 gurus threw at us in the past.

Schaub & Co. are getting a new education this year. And I think that's AWESOME. Better prep for the real thing in Sundays.

We beat the Patriots two years ago (at Reliant), final game IIRC. Did we toughen up and win that game, or did the Patriots just lay down and die for us? We need to go back and look at comments in that thread before you answer

We beat the Packers at Lambeau that same season, IIRC, on what was a brutally cold and snowy day. Schaub and teammates were electric all game long. I feel our defense should have helped out more in that game, but the end result was a W for the soft guys.Toughness is not the silver bullet here. It's shiny, it's metal, and it's a bullet. But it's not pure silver.

I went up for that game. Had a blast. It was freezing as all get out, but the game was good, and Packer fans are cool as hell.
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Old 08-10-2011   #188
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Honestly, I'm not sure what any of this means .

That Pats game was nothing for them. Not when you are pulling your most important players in stretches. As far as the D giving the points back...who cares? That isn't the point. The point is that the offense didn't do that and for a majority of games they come out flat and get punched instead of vice/versa. Thus the label. I mean this label isn't new and other teams/coaches have talked about it. Two-3 games over the years doesn't change that.
Ah, yes. It's the "But THIS happened..." angle.

Just like ONLY Jacoby Jones drops the really pivotal, important passes (which means HIS drops are worse than others' drops) it was only because of several "perfect storm" situations in the Pats game that "allowed" the soft guys to win right?

This is endless. A construct of reality that fits the desired end result.

Are we going to have to go to mediation for this? I kid, I kid....

I just wonder how the Uber-Hardcore Ravens got ran the eff over to the tune of 140 rushing yards by some white guy who teleported from 1938 to 2010? Where did THEIR toughness go? Did we inherit it that week, but had to give it back to them the rest of the season? You can't gauge this Toughness factor that's being ballyhoo'd by the likes of Lombardi. It's swamp gas: You see it, but you reach out to grab it and slips through the fingers.

And you're right that "No, 2 or 3 games a year does not a pattern make..." Howevers, we have had a pretty putrid defense for the past four years that DID make a pattern, and it's that entity (the defense) that is the perpetrator of the crime that my client, Mr. Soft, is being framed for. It would be a gross miscarriage of justice to find Mr. Soft guilty of the crimes committed between the years of 2006 and 2010.
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Old 08-10-2011   #189
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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Rex Ryan called the Texans soft and that is how they prepared before playing them.
I have a feeling Rex Ryan calls every team except his own soft. It's a standard coaching technique.

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Most hard nosed 3-4 type teams have taken it to the Texans.
By hard nosed 3-4 type teams, I assume you mean the Ravens, Steelers, and Jets.
2010
Over time loss to the Ravens
3 point loss to the jets

2009
Big loss to the Jets
Beat the Patriots

That's not exactly taking it to the Texans.

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I think alot of the stigma isn't exactly "look how badass we are" but "do you start games punching a guy in the mouth and then do it for 4 quarters." When is the last time the Texans punched a team in the mouth, much less played a full 4 quarters?
This is a phrase that bothers me consistently. How, exactly, do you punch someone in the mouth, in full pads?

I mean, what exactly is the level of violence that turns it up from normal line play into a punch in the mouth?
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Old 08-10-2011   #190
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That Pats game was nothing for them. Not when you are pulling your most important players in stretches.
If it wasn't important, why would they put Brady BACK in the game?
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Old 08-10-2011   #191
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I have a feeling Rex Ryan calls every team except his own soft. It's a standard coaching technique.



By hard nosed 3-4 type teams, I assume you mean the Ravens, Steelers, and Jets.
2010
Over time loss to the Ravens
3 point loss to the jets

2009
Big loss to the Jets
Beat the Patriots

That's not exactly taking it to the Texans.



This is a phrase that bothers me consistently. How, exactly, do you punch someone in the mouth, in full pads?

I mean, what exactly is the level of violence that turns it up from normal line play into a punch in the mouth?
I think the Packers in 2009 (we won that game AT Lambeau) were also a 3-4 defense.

And in terms of how you could punch them in the mouth, or even begin to elevate the level of punched mouthedness, I think the equation goes something like this:

Px4=W

P = Punch in the mouth
4 = 4 quarters in length
W = Win

If you master THAT formula, it's a win. Every time. I wonder if Lombardi has access to this formula. He could become a very rich man, selling it to owners and coaches.
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Old 08-10-2011   #192
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If it wasn't important, why would they put Brady BACK in the game?
Uh oh.
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Old 08-10-2011   #193
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If it wasn't important, why would they put Brady BACK in the game?
If it was important, why was Brady taken out with 2 minutes left and the Patriots ball?

Brady started the game and started the second half. Normal protocol for teams headed to the playoffs to let their starters get into the groove of both the starts of the game and second half. Even the average football fan is aware of this common practice. Don't let your stars get rusty after you've secured a playoff spot.

The Patriots did not need that game for playoff spot or position.
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Old 08-10-2011   #194
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

This reminds me of the last one to post wins thread.
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Old 08-10-2011   #195
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I think the Packers in 2009 (we won that game AT Lambeau) were also a 3-4 defense.

And in terms of how you could punch them in the mouth, or even begin to elevate the level of punched mouthedness, I think the equation goes something like this:

Px4=W

P = Punch in the mouth
4 = 4 quarters in length
W = Win

If you master THAT formula, it's a win. Every time. I wonder if Lombardi has access to this formula. He could become a very rich man, selling it to owners and coaches.
GP, do you realize that we would have a negative yardage because of all the personal fouls we would get for punching the other team in the mouth for 4 quarters? The proper approach would be to have all of your scrubs go out in the 1st quarter, have them kick the hell out of the other teams starters. If you're gonna cheat, go all out.
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Old 08-10-2011   #196
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If it was important, why was Brady taken out with 2 minutes left and the Patriots ball?

Brady started the game and started the second half. Normal protocol for teams headed to the playoffs to let their starters get into the groove of both the starts of the game and second half. Even the average football fan is aware of this common practice. Don't let your stars get rusty after you've secured a playoff spot.

The Patriots did not need that game for playoff spot or position.
But they still lost Welker. Why risk the injuries at all?

Don't tell me Belichick didn't try to win that game. He doesn't know how to NOT beat the hell out of someone if he can.

Belichick pulled and pushed Brady as he felt he needed to, but this still doesn't undo the fact that the Texans didn't go limp and fail to finish. A soft team would have found a way to fold in that situation.

These guys don't lay down and die. The idea put forth by Lombardi is flawed. He's acting like the Texans fold up their tent and go sit on the sideline and sulk because they are so bad and so soft. It doesn't wash. We can be upset with outcomes, but I think it's incorrect to say our guys are soft.
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Old 08-30-2011   #197
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

Sorry for bringing back that thread, but I found something interesting on NFL.com. They have a season prediction poll where from Monday through Friday their experts, among them Lombardi, give their predictions for the season and indiviual awards for 2011. As of now Lombardi picked Arian Foster for OPOY and JJ Watt for DROY. And he was the only one picking a Texan.
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Old 08-30-2011   #198
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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Originally Posted by Austrian View Post
Sorry for bringing back that thread, but I found something interesting on NFL.com. They have a season prediction poll where from Monday through Friday their experts, among them Lombardi, give their predictions for the season and indiviual awards for 2011. As of now Lombardi picked Arian Foster for OPOY and JJ Watt for DROY. And he was the only one picking a Texan.
He does indeed:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...content_stream

But before we go forgiving him, I submit this:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...his-nfl-season

Included is this little nugget: "XX. The soft Texans. I am really excited to see if the Texans can play with physical power and not lose leads in the fourth quarter. If they do, I'll remove the soft label."

Actually looks like he might be coming around and is just fanning the flames of his earlier comments.
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Old 08-30-2011   #199
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

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Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Included is this little nugget: "XX. The soft Texans. I am really excited to see if the Texans can play with physical power and not lose leads in the fourth quarter. If they do, I'll remove the soft label."
Lombardi's already crawdadding, and it's not even Week 1.
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Old 08-30-2011   #200
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Default Re: Latest Lombardi Anti-Texans Comments

We were 4-2 last season and ended up 5-7 (for the fourth year in a row). That's a soft team. Hopefully this year is different. Much, much different.
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