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Old 07-25-2011   #1
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Default Winston on Padded Practices

Part of the new labor deal was a limit on padded practices. In MMQB, King talks to Winston..what's new ...and I'm trying to tell if his comment was damming or good. Many Cowboy players thought part of Garretts good start was getting guys in pads again and getting them aggressive. Thoughts on this? Yes, you had the leading rusher but many thought you were soft..so pads help or hurt? From high school play all our practices except Thursday special teams was padded and I liked it that way. I know it is a different speed

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...in&hpt=hp_bn10

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Padded practices. Teams can have 14 per regular season, including only three in the last six weeks of the season. Grumbling leaguewide has begun over the sissification of the NFL; coaches won't be able to toughen up soft teams anymore.

"Not sure this is a very big deal,'' Winston of the Texans said. "We had the leading rusher in the league last year [Arian Foster] and I bet we only had 17 padded practices all season.
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Old 07-25-2011   #2
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

They also had a 6-10 record...
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Old 07-25-2011   #3
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

I think the griping about fewer practices in pads is funny.

It's not going to translate to a softer NFL. I suppose "the man" in us would like to think that if WE had to do 2-a-days in full pads then that's sacred and that's how it should be. Anything less....and we call it being a puss.

You guys come back on here after we've had a few weeks of reg season to judge, and let's see if they're trying to pull a flag or two-hand-touch rather than tackle out there.

I file this one under the "things guys like to ***** about" category. The lockout has made us focus on the funniest things. Glad to have some real news in about two days. LOL.

I think we should be more concerned about two other items that probably play a larger role in the success of each team, as it pertains to fewer injuries and being ready for Sundays: (1) Stretching and other prep work before each game, i.e. sleep habits, supplements (the legal ones), eating properly, etc., and (2) strength & conditioning.

Then again, the Packers were near the top last season in terms of teams who had the most injuries...and they found a way to win the SB. So go figure. Nothing is quantifiable, IMO. You're either going to be a winner or you're not. That's what makes the NFL the best.
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Old 07-25-2011   #4
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

I think this is something that falls along the lines of personal preference. Some probably need to practice in pads to rev themselves up and some probably don't.

There's no "right" or "wrong" answer to it, and it doesn't mean you're soft if you prefer less practice in pads.
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Old 07-25-2011   #5
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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I think the griping about fewer practices in pads is funny.

It's not going to translate to a softer NFL. I suppose "the man" in us would like to think that if WE had to do 2-a-days in full pads then that's sacred and that's how it should be. Anything less....and we call it being a puss.

You guys come back on here after we've had a few weeks of reg season to judge, and let's see if they're trying to pull a flag or two-hand-touch rather than tackle out there.

I file this one under the "things guys like to ***** about" category. The lockout has made us focus on the funniest things. Glad to have some real news in about two days. LOL.


I think we should be more concerned about two other items that probably play a larger role in the success of each team, as it pertains to fewer injuries and being ready for Sundays: (1) Stretching and other prep work before each game, i.e. sleep habits, supplements (the legal ones), eating properly, etc., and (2) strength & conditioning.

Then again, the Packers were near the top last season in terms of teams who had the most injuries...and they found a way to win the SB. So go figure. Nothing is quantifiable, IMO. You're either going to be a winner or you're not. That's what makes the NFL the best.
Completely disagree. I think some teams thrive on hitting in practice and getting the feel for the schemes and how they play out on game day. I'm not saying you have to be pounding each other every day but it goes to conditioning too. As I said, the one main thing pointing to Garrett's "success" was getting guys back in pads. In high school we did two a days in the Texas heat at some old camp in Granbury where the field was sand and burrs and we stayed in cabins. We played "Highway to Hell" on the bus on the way in. We always thought we were the best conditioned/tackling teams out there. We did pads all but one day during the season just so we could run schemes against scout teams and the lineman could hit and move. I'm not saying one way is right or wrong but I found his comment interesting since they have been labeled soft. As Nero said above there may be some teams..older maybe..that prefer no pads so their bodies can rest.
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Old 07-25-2011   #6
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

I wish there could have been a way to say "All rookies and UDFAs and street free agents no matter your age" will have full pads all the time.

This gives extra chances to those who need the reps to show coaches why they should belong or maybe even become a starter. But I know that's not gonna' happen because the older vets would say "Rookie is stealing my job out there because he gets seen popping pads and cracking helmets, and I'm in shorts all the time."

Would there even be enough players to do that, though? Would you have to say "All players with less than 3 years NFL experience will have full pads"? So in the morning, all players are in pads/helmets. And in the afternoon, you have one group of players doing shorts-only drills and another group in pads/helmets battling it out in front of coaches. This would give coaches a chance to judge the younger talent, and give the older vets (4th year guys and above) a chance to rest their bodies and do basic no-contact drills.

Think about it: If you're a 4th-year guy out there in training camp, do you want to get decked by some rookie trying to make the team? Do you want YOUR 3 years of dedication and YOUR momentum to be wiped out by a dude trying to impress a coach? I can see where the older guys want fewer practices in pads. They're playing the numbers game, and frankly if they're a 4th year (or more) guy in the NFL...then they deserve the protection they can be afforded. I have no problem with that sense of "entitlement."
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Old 07-25-2011   #7
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Completely disagree. I think some teams thrive on hitting in practice and getting the feel for the schemes and how they play out on game day. I'm not saying you have to be pounding each other every day but it goes to conditioning too. As I said, the one main thing pointing to Garrett's "success" was getting guys back in pads. In high school we did two a days in the Texas heat at some old camp in Granbury where the field was sand and burrs and we stayed in cabins. We played "Highway to Hell" on the bus on the way in. We always thought we were the best conditioned/tackling teams out there. We did pads all put one day during the season just so we could run schemes against scout teams and the lineman could hit and move. I'm not saying one way is right or wrong but I found his comment interesting since they have been labeled soft. As Nero said above there may be some teams..older maybe..that prefer no pads so their bodies can rest.
I'd argue this was the benefit of change more so than any inherent advantage is practicing in pads itself. Which is not to say there is no advantage to practicing in pads, just that you hear as many stories of teams improving after dumping an old-school, Coughlin-esque approach as you do teams reverting to it. When things get stale, people respond to change.
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Old 07-25-2011   #8
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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I'd argue this was the benefit of change more so than any inherent advantage is practicing in pads itself. Which is not to say there is no advantage to practicing in pads, just that you hear as many stories of teams improving after dumping an old-school, Coughlin-esque approach as you do teams reverting to it. When things get stale, people respond to change.
Agree. They went from Parcells to Wade and improved first year. As you ..and I said, I'm not saying right or wrong. The comment just struck me as funny considering the label on the team for years and him using Foster as an example of why less pads may work.
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Old 07-25-2011   #9
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Completely disagree. I think some teams thrive on hitting in practice and getting the feel for the schemes and how they play out on game day. I'm not saying you have to be pounding each other every day but it goes to conditioning too. As I said, the one main thing pointing to Garrett's "success" was getting guys back in pads. In high school we did two a days in the Texas heat at some old camp in Granbury where the field was sand and burrs and we stayed in cabins. We played "Highway to Hell" on the bus on the way in. We always thought we were the best conditioned/tackling teams out there. We did pads all put one day during the season just so we could run schemes against scout teams and the lineman could hit and move. I'm not saying one way is right or wrong but I found his comment interesting since they have been labeled soft. As Nero said above there may be some teams..older maybe..that prefer no pads so their bodies can rest.
I knew it would come back to "Back in my day..." bravado stuff.

You guys were high school kids, most of which never made it to college ball. These NFL guys have survived high school, got recruited by large colleges, played through college, got scouted and drafted by an NFL team, and play in the most physically-challenging level yet.

I think it's OK if they were treated a little differently than a high school kid. Man, you and I are about the same age. Our bodies WERE so wildly regenerative "back in the day..." it's not even funny. It's like we were Wolverine from the X-Men or something. You get into your mid-to-late 20s, and then into the 30s, and we both know that THAT doesn't last forever.

I steer-wrestled for only 5 years (Was 17 when I learned, and "retired" when I was 22). I'm 35 and my right knee literally GRINDS and makes noises when I climb stairs. Age is a *****. Now think about those guys in the NFL.

You and I could argue about this like we would "back in the day," frog, and I can tell it's an important point of yours. I just think it's a different circumstance. Entirely.
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Old 07-25-2011   #10
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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Agree. They went from Parcells to Wade and improved first year. As you ..and I said, I'm not saying right or wrong. The comment just struck me as funny considering the label on the team for years and him using Foster as an example of why less pads may work.
Let's just say that it is no surprise to me that Winston falls in the "prefers less pad days" camp.
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Old 07-25-2011   #11
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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Let's just say that it is no surprise to me that Winston falls in the "prefers less pad days" camp.
Oh I think Winston wears pads all the time, or at least a few days out of the month.

Just kidding! I don't want that guy's caveman face showing up at my door demanding an apology.
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Old 07-25-2011   #12
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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I knew it would come back to "Back in my day..." bravado stuff.

You guys were high school kids, most of which never made it to college ball. These NFL guys have survived high school, got recruited by large colleges, played through college, got scouted and drafted by an NFL team, and play in the most physically-challenging level yet.

I think it's OK if they were treated a little differently than a high school kid. Man, you and I are about the same age. Our bodies WERE so wildly regenerative "back in the day..." it's not even funny. It's like we were Wolverine from the X-Men or something. You get into your mid-to-late 20s, and then into the 30s, and we both know that THAT doesn't last forever.

I steer-wrestled for only 5 years (Was 17 when I learned, and "retired" when I was 22). I'm 35 and my right knee literally GRINDS and makes noises when I climb stairs. Age is a *****. Now think about those guys in the NFL.

You and I could argue about this like we would "back in the day," frog, and I can tell it's an important point of yours. I just think it's a different circumstance. Entirely.
It's not bravado. I mentioned this in my first post and even stated that it was different because these guys go a whole different speed. But getting assignments right, especially for an O-line, is alot different while moving to actually block someone in pads vs walking through and around people to show you know your assignment...speed, traffic, etc. That is my point. I know these guys are torn up...thus why I hate the 18 game schedule idea...but limiting pads, to me, MAY be a disadvantage. Walking through is alot harder than the first snap of a real game when some LB comes screaming in and you are actually getting hit.
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Old 07-25-2011   #13
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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Walking through is alot harder than the first snap of a real game when some LB comes screaming in and you are actually getting hit.
I think preseason games can accomplish this, no? I mean, in preseason the defense is not really coming at the QB all that hard anyways.

Feels like it's starting off with a lower level of contact in camp, then a bump up in preseason, and then the real deal in reg season.

Besides, there are plenty of people who are complaining that preseason itself robs us of the full joys of football every year. It's always going to be something else that comes along and ruins the game, I suppose.

I'm more concerned with rule changes that give the offense, especially the QB, a weighted advantage. That's where my concern is at, not on how many camp practices are in pads vs. shorts and shirt only.
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Old 07-25-2011   #14
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

What ever happened to the saying "practice makes perfect"?

Aren't pads made to limit player injury? I've seen some of the practices that the Texans have with no pads. Those guys going 75% without pads seems more risky than going 90% with pads. I'm always worried that someone is going to get thrown into someone else's knee, or some of those collisions are going to cause someones clavicle to snap.

I think the league should step off telling coaches how to run their practices. It's okay that they limit the number of hours teams can spend together, but don't take away the coaches authority. At least put a clause in there that shitty teams are allowed to put on pads for up to 20 practices. Or soft teams...
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Old 07-25-2011   #15
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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I think preseason games can accomplish this, no? I mean, in preseason the defense is not really coming at the QB all that hard anyways.

Feels like it's starting off with a lower level of contact in camp, then a bump up in preseason, and then the real deal in reg season.

Besides, there are plenty of people who are complaining that preseason itself robs us of the full joys of football every year. It's always going to be something else that comes along and ruins the game, I suppose.

I'm more concerned with rule changes that give the offense, especially the QB, a weighted advantage. That's where my concern is at, not on how many camp practices are in pads vs. shorts and shirt only.
GP, you need to think back to practice...
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Old 07-25-2011   #16
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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Then again, the Packers were near the top last season in terms of teams who had the most injuries...and they found a way to win the SB. So go figure. Nothing is quantifiable, IMO. You're either going to be a winner or you're not. That's what makes the NFL the best.
And the Packers were one of the teams that never practiced in pads twice a day according to NFLN. The fact that the Super Bowl champions never did it is a torpedo to anyone's point that two-a-days is required to be successful.

These guys are pros, and I think the potential wear and tear on their bodies is a far greater risk than any slight gains that might come from pads twice a day.
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Old 07-25-2011   #17
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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And the Packers were one of the teams that never practiced in pads twice a day according to NFLN. The fact that the Super Bowl champions never did it is a torpedo to anyone's point that two-a-days is required to be successful.

These guys are pros, and I think the potential wear and tear on their bodies is a far greater risk than any slight gains that might come from pads twice a day.
And there lies the problem... the Texans wore pads all season... maxi-pads
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Old 07-25-2011   #18
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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And the Packers were one of the teams that never practiced in pads twice a day according to NFLN. The fact that the Super Bowl champions never did it is a torpedo to anyone's point that two-a-days is required to be successful.

These guys are pros, and I think the potential wear and tear on their bodies is a far greater risk than any slight gains that might come from pads twice a day.
I agree with you DB and I don't see this as a problem at all. It's not like it's going to make these guys less on game day. If anything I think it makes them more intense on game day, because their bodies should be able to take and dish out more. Plus the emotions of having to wait a little more to dish out those brutal hits will finally get there on game day where they can let it all out. I'm all for seeing an NFL with less injuries. It sucks seeing big name great players go down every year and if this can help to limit that, then I'm okay with it.


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And there lies the problem... the Texans wore pads all season... maxi-pads
Repped!! Lol!
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Old 07-25-2011   #19
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
And the Packers were one of the teams that never practiced in pads twice a day according to NFLN. The fact that the Super Bowl champions never did it is a torpedo to anyone's point that two-a-days is required to be successful.

These guys are pros, and I think the potential wear and tear on their bodies is a far greater risk than any slight gains that might come from pads twice a day.
Agree that is goes against the argument. But I never said 2 a days was required. I think they are unecessary for pros, despite me doing them, as noted. My point was seasonal. Limits on the season...again, mostly from a full speed assignment type view. I just think some teams might find it beneficial. When I watch walk throughs I'm like..really? Considering I hate the 18 game schedule because of injuries I guess you can stay my stance here might be a little muddling to it. But I'm not asking that they have "pit" drills where they make the tunnel and kill each other. Just that they have some full locking on/speed type playbook time.
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Old 07-25-2011   #20
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Default Re: Winston on Padded Practices

I'll probably be one of the only "black sheep" voices on this subject, but "simulation" does not allow the learning of good and proper techniques. Some techniques are for attack such as tackling. Improper tackling can cause injuries to the tackler and to the one tackled. Some techniques are for "defensive" moves of how to avoid injuries.........how to fall, how to react when tackled, how to protect oneself when catching a ball in traffic. Madden-like experience ill prepares a player for such game day situations. And don't kid yourself, vets become "rusty" also.
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