TJ Yates

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Texcore

Of course I saw that part, but why even mention Schaub in the same breath of Dan Marino. That is trying to say something, without trying to say something.

No. I was saying EXACTLY what I meant. I wasn't implying anything by using Marino's name and specifically said so. Marino is considered an elite QB because he had great stats. He never won a Super Bowl.

Schaub is not in that class but LIKE MARINO and Philip Rivers, he's put up some great stats. If Peyton Manning hadn't won that SB, he'd be in that Marino class.

You're creating a straw man argument by reading something into a statement that was not said and not implied and specifically ruled out.

Ben and Eli have better skill sets than Schaub. Have proven they are more clutch than Schaub. Can get their team into the playoffs. Can win in the playoffs. Oh, and can win a super bowl.

This is a show me what you have done league. And Schaub hasn't shown us anything. He is not clutch. As good as our defense has been playing, it is not the pulverizing defense that leads a team to a SB on its own, like the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, or the 2002 Bucs. Other than those years, in this era of football, you need a QB that makes plays on his own, and can lift the team up. Bottom line. If you think otherwise, you are in for serious disappointment. Take the battle red colored glasses off friend, and realize the obvious.

And all of those "mediocare" QBs that you mentioned have one thing in common. They played in a different era of football. A run first era, with less rules for the defense to abide by. Sure, Schaub could of won in those eras with those teams being a game manager. I believe that. But its a different game now.

Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are not different eras. Hell, with a play or two different, Jake Delhomme could have won a Super Bowl. The Jets were able to carry Mark Sanchez to some playoff wins because the TEAM was that good and how did they do it? Good running game and strong defense.

With Schaub, we would have gone into the playoffs with a strong running game, a good defense, and a better passing game than the Jets could even dream of.

This is a team game and as people say over and over, the QB position gets too much credit for wins and too much credit for losses. And you're one of the people giving the position too much credit.

[The Pencil Neck]

HOFers/Elite
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning(if he comes back healthy obviously)

The Elite
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers

Top Tier/non-elite
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Matt Schaub
Phillip Rivers

2nd Tier
Matt Ryan
Mike Vick
Jay Cutler
Matt Stafford
Tony Romo

3rd Tier
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez

As I said in another post. It's a beauty contest. I've re-arranged this list to the way I see it. I consider Mark Sanchez bad. I would not take a young QB like a Dalton or a Newton (and especially not a Bradford) over Schaub at this point if I wanted to win this season.

There are only 4 QBs I consider clearly better than Schaub. For guys like Eli and Ben, there are some days they're better and some days when Schaub is better.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Texcore

Only some of our fans would ever say that, God bless us. But the rest of the NFL, league, and other fans would just laugh at that statement.

I dare you to prove it to me, objectively, how he is in Eli's tier of Qbs.

I think your manlove is showing.

[ThaJokaa]

Originally Posted by Texcore

This is the way I objectively see it....And in no particular order, just by class IMO

HOFers/Elite
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning(if he comes back healthy obviously)

The Elite
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger

Top Tier/non-elite
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers
Mike Vick
Matt Ryan

2nd Tier
Jay Cutler
Matt Stafford
Matt Schaub
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez.
...and I don't care to rank the rest.

I would take every QB listed above Schaub in a heart beat. This is just a hypothetical, but I would also trade Shaub in a heartbeat for a young talent such as Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Sam Bradford. With our talent, thse guys could really shine on our team as they develop into top QBs I would also take Vince Young over Schaub.

U lost all credibility there...

[Texcore]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

You're creating a straw man argument by reading something into a statement that was not said and not implied and specifically ruled

This is a team game and as people say over and over, the QB position gets too much credit for wins and too much credit for losses. And you're one of the people giving the position too much credit.

No Im not. See the difference between you and I is that your argument is based on hypotheticals. I deal in reality and the body of work that the QBs have shown, while you rely on self serving statements based on what you think might or could happen.

You give way too much non existent credit to Schaub. He is not a to tier QB. Period. He is with the above average group.

[76Texan]

RT @NickScurfield : #Texans OC Rick Dennison on Yates: "We’re very confident. We did the same thing we do any other Wednesday today." · Twitter · 20 hours ago

.....

The whole playbook?!?

[arb729]

http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/s...13048449875969

"Filed to ESPN: Vikings plan to release Donovan McNabb today, according to a league source."

Don't post much and didn't think this deserved it's own thread, but related news nonetheless.

[TexansFanatic]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

RT @NickScurfield : #Texans OC Rick Dennison on Yates: "We’re very confident. We did the same thing we do any other Wednesday today." · Twitter · 20 hours ago

That rocks.

Can't wait to see the kid in action.

We could be about to watch our next franchise quarterback's first start.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Texcore

No Im not. See the difference between you and I is that your argument is based on hypotheticals. I deal in reality and the body of work that the QBs have shown, while you rely on self serving statements based on what you think might or could happen.

You give way too much non existent credit to Schaub. He is not a to tier QB. Period. He is with the above average group.

lol! Well, your version of reality, of course. Reality is so subjective these days...

Tony Romo is Top Tier?? Dude fumbled a freakin' FG snap to win a game!

[TexanFan881]

Good article on the new QB:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...erragamo-v-2-0

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Texcore

No Im not. See the difference between you and I is that your argument is based on hypotheticals. I deal in reality and the body of work that the QBs have shown, while you rely on self serving statements based on what you think might or could happen.

You give way too much non existent credit to Schaub. He is not a to tier QB. Period. He is with the above average group.

Yes, you are creating a straw man argument. You're saying that by mentioning Marino, I'm saying Schaub is as good as he is. That's not what I did. That's a classic straw man argument: creating things that someone didn't say so you can argue against it. That's just dishonest.

In your reality, Quarterbacks who win Superbowls are better quarterbacks than those who don't. And that is wrong. Quarterbacks don't win Super Bowls, teams do. That was true in the 70's and it's still true today.

[False Start]

Originally Posted by TexanFan881

Good article on the new QB:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...erragamo-v-2-0

Good read man, thanks.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

lol! Well, your version of reality, of course. Reality is so subjective these days...

Tony Romo is Top Tier?? Dude fumbled a freakin' FG snap to win a game!

Yeah, if you rank QBs by Clutchness, Romo's not anywhere near the top.

[TexansFanatic]

Originally Posted by TexanFan881

Good article on the new QB:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...erragamo-v-2-0

Very cool. I'm old enough to remember Vince Ferragamo and I never knew he was forced into action that late in a season like that. Thanks for posting the article.

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by TexanFan881

Good article on the new QB:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...erragamo-v-2-0

I know there's been a lot talk about Yates already, but this should have had it's own thread. Rep Up!

The presumption is doom.

No team with a third-string quarterback at the helm, a rookie, no less, is going anywhere.

But T.J. Yates and the Houston Texans will set about trying to disprove that theory starting Sunday against the Atlanta Falcons at Reliant Stadium

The Texans have lost Matt Schaub and Matt Leinart for the season in consecutive games. Now a team with the NFL’s top defense and third-ranked rush offense moves forward with Yates.

In a year when Cam Newton, Andy Dalton and Christian Ponder have played well as full-time rookies and Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker were top draft picks, Yates was the eighth quarterback selected and the 152nd player drafted.

He worked as the third quarterback until Schaub’s injury, not dressing for games and running the scout team in practices.

Plugging him in as the lead guy is hardly something the Texans envisioned, and hardly the sort of thing seen around the league.

One team that experienced similar circumstances was the 1979 Los Angeles Rams.

After losing Pat Haden to injury in Week 10 that season and then getting an ineffective start from Jeff Rutledge in a Week 11 loss tot the Chicago Bears, the Rams turned over the starting job to Vince Ferragamo, then a third-year pro who had never started an NFL game before.

Ferragamo posted a 4-1 record over the remainder of the regular season as the Rams won the NFC West. They then beat the Cowboys in Dallas and the Buccaneers in Tampa Bay in the NFC playoffs before they fell to the Steelers, 31-19, in Super Bowl XIV.

Someone asked Yates, who was born in 1987, if he knew who Ferragamo was. He said no. Relayed Ferragamo's story, he said simply, "sweet."

Can Yates do anything similar?

Schaub thinks the rookie is equipped to succeed.

“The one thing that I’ve observed, I’ve been in this type of offense now … all the way back into my college days. T.J., for being a rookie, he’s probably picked this offense up to the point where he can function in it well, faster than anyone I’ve seen, including myself, including a lot of players that I’ve been around,” Schaub told KILT radio in Houston this week. “That’s a big credit to him, because this is not an easy offense to pick up. … I, personally, have a ton of confidence that he’s going to go in there and play very well.”

It’s not just the understanding, though. Right tackle Eric Winston said Yates is the most athletic of the Texans’ top three quarterbacks. Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. likes Yates’ arm: “He throws the ball quite well and should be able to get the ball to where it needs to be.” And everyone is talking about the youngester's calm, a key quarterback quality.

The Texans regard themselves as having supreme resolve, and they should. Their top players on offense have missed time -- receiver Andre Johnson was out six games with a hamstring injury and running back Arian Foster missed two and hardly played in one with a hamstring injury -- and outside linebacker Mario Williams was lost for the season with a torn pectoral muscle suffered Oct. 19 against Oakland.

Kansas City probably didn’t come into the season with as much talent as the Texans. But the Chiefs won their division and appeared in the playoffs last season. This season they’ve lost safety Eric Berry, tight end Tony Moeaki, running back Jamaal Charles and quarterback Matt Cassel for the season along the way in their follow-up year.

They are 4-7, tied with San Diego at the bottom of the AFC West.

Houston’s had far better results overcoming injuries.

The mantra is how it’s about the team.

“They know how big the challenge is this weekend, but [they are a] very upbeat group, very positive group,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “… It’s a new world for [Yates]. Last week, he’s getting more reps because he’s the backup. All of a sudden, he’s running the team [Wednesday] and got a lot on his plate, mentally from leaving the classroom to coming out here, but he did fine. He’ll get better every day out here, and that’s the most important thing. The key is everybody else making sure they do their job.”

Said Yates: “Everybody around me is very confident. You can tell this team hasn’t really skipped a beat as far as intensity or tempo at practice. Nothing seems different except for it’s just a different guy at quarterback.”

Atlanta is the toughest team the Texans will have faced in some time. It’s a game they could have lost even with Schaub healthy. If they lose it with Yates it will hardly be a season-killer.

They simply need to see he can manage the game, maintain the calm they’ve lauded, and can make enough throws to make a defense either stay honest or pay the price for loading up the box with an eighth defender to slow Foster and Ben Tate.

If Yates does that, he can be enough.

If he does that, the Texans will have a chance to make us talk more about how he and the Texans can compare to Ferragamo and those Rams.

I'll take this a step further: Guess which team Ferragamo got his first NFL start against? Don't worry; don't guess. It was the Atlanta Falcons.

Vince went 9-22, 171 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT for the win.

The 3rd stringer took his team to the Super Bowl!

But that's not all, sport's fans: the next year, 1980, Vince Ferragamo threw for 3199 yards, 30 TDs and 19 Ints.

Ferragamo was a 4th round draft pick (91st overall) in 1977. He currently lives on Peleliu, in the Palau Island chain.

http://vinceferragamo.com/

[Texcore]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

Yes, you are creating a straw man argument. You're saying that by mentioning Marino, I'm saying Schaub is as good as he is. That's not what I did. That's a classic straw man argument: creating things that someone didn't say so you can argue against it. That's just dishonest.

In your reality, Quarterbacks who win Superbowls are better quarterbacks than those who don't. And that is wrong. Quarterbacks don't win Super Bowls, teams do. That was true in the 70's and it's still true today.

Again, you are just using self serving statements to try and prove your point.

Never did I say winning a Super Bowl automatically makes you a better QB than everybody else. Where did I say that? I'd challenge you to show me where I said that, but you can't because I never said that. (And you are accuse me of creating a straw man argument, lol). However winning a Superbowl does add to a QBs reputation, especially in this day and age. And yes, a QB is the most important part of the equation in winning a Superbowl. Unless you have those rare years where a defense can do it like the aforementioned Bears, Ravens, and Bucs did. That is the only time a game manager can win a Super Bowl.

What I said, and I'll repeat it again so that maybe it can stick this time, is that good QBs have their teams in playoff contention year in and year out. They have an "IT" factor. They win division titles. They get into the playoffs. Sometimes they have to lift their team up and win a game on their own. They are play makers. They win playoff games. They consistently put up stats. They pass the eye test.... And some of them win Super Bowls.

[Kaiser Toro]

This is a sign from Tebow. Between 1979-1982 I collected every NFL trading card for that specific year, only Vince Ferragamo shared my birth date amongst all players.

Championship!

[drs23]

Originally Posted by Texcore

Again, you are just using self serving statements to try and prove your point.

Never did I say winning a Super Bowl automatically makes you a better QB than everybody else. Where did I say that? I'd challenge you to show me where I said that, but you can't because I never said that. (And you are accuse me of creating a straw man argument, lol). However winning a Superbowl does add to a QBs reputation, especially in this day and age. And yes, a QB is the most important part of the equation in winning a Superbowl. Unless you have those rare years where a defense can do it like the aforementioned Bears, Ravens, and Bucs did. That is the only time a game manager can win a Super Bowl.
What I said, and I'll repeat it again so that maybe it can stick this time, is that good QBs have their teams in playoff contention year in and year out. They have an "IT" factor. They win division titles. They get into the playoffs. Sometimes they have to lift their team up and win a game on their own. They are play makers. They win playoff games. They consistently put up stats. They pass the eye test.... And some of them win Super Bowls.

Didn't look it up, sorry. Were any of these teams, say, the #1 defense in the NFL or close to it when they pulled this feat?

Jus axin.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Texcore

Again, you are just using self serving statements to try and prove your point.

Never did I say winning a Super Bowl automatically makes you a better QB than everybody else. Where did I say that? I'd challenge you to show me where I said that, but you can't because I never said that. (And you are accuse me of creating a straw man argument, lol). However winning a Superbowl does add to a QBs reputation, especially in this day and age. And yes, a QB is the most important part of the equation in winning a Superbowl. Unless you have those rare years where a defense can do it like the aforementioned Bears, Ravens, and Bucs did. That is the only time a game manager can win a Super Bowl.

Here's what you said earlier...

Ben and Eli have better skill sets than Schaub. Have proven they are more clutch than Schaub. Can get their team into the playoffs. Can win in the playoffs. Oh, and can win a super bowl.

From that and the fact that everyone who has won a Super Bowl and is still playing is in your Elite class led me to believe that you had SB has one of your main criteria.

Eli's and Roethlisberger's stats are not as impressive as Schaub's.

Originally Posted by Texcore

What I said, and I'll repeat it again so that maybe it can stick this time, is that good QBs have their teams in playoff contention year in and year out. They have an "IT" factor. They win division titles. They get into the playoffs. Sometimes they have to lift their team up and win a game on their own. They are play makers. They win playoff games. They consistently put up stats. They pass the eye test.... And some of them win Super Bowls.

3 of the last 4 years, the Texans have been in playoff contention late into December. Last year, we should have been except for an epically bad defense. Schaub has consistently put up stats.

You don't like him, fine. But you can't say he's not a good QB.

[Texcore]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

lol! Well, your version of reality, of course. Reality is so subjective these days...

Tony Romo is Top Tier?? Dude fumbled a freakin' FG snap to win a game!

Many of us Texans fans don't like it, but Romo is a better QB than Schaub. Period. Romo not only has better stats that Schaub, but has lead his team to division titles, playoff appearances, and has won games on with his own ability. All criteria Schaub has never met. I wish Schaub had some Romo in him.

And not just Tony, but Big Ben, Eli, Rivers,Vick, etc. They, along with the elite, and other QBs I mentioned previously are all better than Schaub and have done more to stake their reputations in the league.

To say Schaub is better than the QBs mentioned above, is just being a Matt Schaub fan boy and/or nut hugger.