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Old 10-30-2011   #661
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
How do you re-read that last paragraph of yours (above) and not understand how frustrating it is for someone like me to not be frustrated with your assessment???

That paragraph is 100% telling.

You seriously say that because he's more opportunistic AND gets to the ball, that THAT doesn't necessarily make him better?

Oy. I need a Tums....
Deangelo Hall is opportunistic also. Doesn't make him one of the better CBs in the NFL though.
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Old 10-30-2011   #662
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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No one is doubting the power of the turnover. But it isn't a indication on who the best CBs are. All I said was INTs do not tell you whose the better corner.

Didn't say they weren't important, but you can't say "Allen has 3 INTs and Kareem has 0. Therefore Allen is better." judging CB play is not that simple. Revis had 0 INTs last year btw. That's my point.
why do you continue to compare jackson to Aso our Reevis ? First off noone throws at them. They throw at jackson and he still has no INTs. So what is ur logic ? it not like QBs dont throw at KJ with fear of his awesome coverage skills haha. That is however why Reevis and Aso dont get many ints. but not the case for jackson
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Old 10-30-2011   #663
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And remember, I'm using your logic here.
Jackson has been playing more than Allen; therefore, Jackson is the better player. Period.
No, KJ has been playing more because he is in need of showing that he is worthy of his billing as our 1st round pick two drafts ago.

Thank GOD that WP is at least rotating them in and out and not trying to force KJ on us for the entire duration of games.

If KJ was all that and a bag of chips, he'd be out there for every snap. Not seeing his playing time decrease (steadily) two weeks in a row.

Just because a team is trying to cover its ass on a draft pick, which happens A LOT in all 32 teams, doesn't mean the team is playing it's best players. It's holding onto a stock and hoping its value increases...but some stocks are just dogs and you gotta find a way to dump those types of stocks. I figure KJ will be here through his rookie contract, or not, depending on how it is structured.
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Old 10-30-2011   #664
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
you are the one saying KJ plays more because he is better. So sounds to me like ur saying it as well
Obviously, in the long run, the better player will see more of the field.
There's nothing comical in that.
But it wasn't something I brought up in these last few posts.

In these last few posts, it was GP who said that since "he thought" (incorrectly) that Allen was playing more than Jackson, it should be "clear" that Allen is the better player.
Those are his assessments.

I was only telling him that based on his criteria, Jackson is the better player, because Jackson has been playing more.

You really need to read the posts more carefully!
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Old 10-30-2011   #665
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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why do you continue to compare jackson to Aso our Reevis ? First off noone throws at them. They throw at jackson and he still has no INTs. So what is ur logic ? it not like QBs dont throw at KJ with fear of his awesome coverage skills haha. That is however why Reevis and Aso dont get many ints. but not the case for jackson
I don't think you understand. GP said Allen should start because he has 3 INTs and KJ had 0. That's not how you judge CB play. The point is INTs are not indicative of being a better corner.

For me the only INT i've been impressed by Allen out of the 3 is the one he had this week and still it was bad decision by Blaine. Still though he played the route, got the INT, made the play and I'm happy he did it regardless.
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Old 10-30-2011   #666
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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I don't think you understand. GP said Allen should start because he has 3 INTs and KJ had 0. That's not how you judge CB play. The point is INTs are not indicative of being a better corner.
For me the only INT i've been impressed by Allen out of the 3 is the one he had this week and still it was bad decision by Blaine. Still though he played the route, got the INT, made the play and I'm happy he did it regardless.
It is if the CBs get thrown at all the time, it may not be for the reevis and Aso of the NFL though.
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Old 10-30-2011   #667
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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If KJ was all that and a bag of chips, he'd be out there for every snap. Not seeing his playing time decrease (steadily) two weeks in a row.
Once again, this is absolutely incorrect.
It's the other way around, Jackson has been playing more since he came back from injury than before (the first 3 games).
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Old 10-30-2011   #668
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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It is if the CBs get thrown at all the time, it may not be for the reevis and Aso of the NFL though.
Revis got thrown at quite a bit last year.
There was link to some stats site in one of the threads.
He didn't have a good year.
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Old 10-30-2011   #669
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Revis got thrown at quite a bit last year.
There was link to some stats site in one of the threads.
He didn't have a good year.
it is still beyond foolish to always compare KJ to Reevis and Aso. He is not even in the same ball park so quit comparing . Thats like me comparing the Canada military to the United States. It just seems foolish
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Old 10-30-2011   #670
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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It is if the CBs get thrown at all the time, it may not be for the reevis and Aso of the NFL though.
You must consider the INTs. It's sorta like the people who get on Mario for not getting 2 sacks per game. Judging defensive players is not about stats. A LB can have a bunch of tackles but if they are all after good gains than they don't mean much.

Also if a guy is targeted or thrown at a lot that's no good in the first place.
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Old 10-30-2011   #671
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Revis got thrown at quite a bit last year.
There was link to some stats site in one of the threads.
He didn't have a good year.
Revis was hurt early in the year last year so that may have had something to do with it. He was back to form from mid-season on though.
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Old 10-30-2011   #672
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

[quote=fiasco west;1816362]You must consider the INTs. It's sorta like the people who get on Mario for not getting 2 sacks per game. Judging defensive players is not about stats. A LB can have a bunch of tackles but if they are all after good gains than they don't mean much.

Also if a guy is targeted or thrown at a lot that's no good in the first place.[/QUOTE]

heres the problem, KJ is thrown at a lot and still makes no plays on the ball. Wow he deflected a pass today against the worst passing offense in the NFL. D MVP right there
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Old 10-30-2011   #673
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

[quote=EllisUnit;1816365]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiasco west View Post
You must consider the INTs. It's sorta like the people who get on Mario for not getting 2 sacks per game. Judging defensive players is not about stats. A LB can have a bunch of tackles but if they are all after good gains than they don't mean much.

Also if a guy is targeted or thrown at a lot that's no good in the first place.[/QUOTE]

heres the problem, KJ is thrown at a lot and still makes no plays on the ball. Wow he deflected a pass today against the worst passing offense in the NFL. D MVP right there
Hmm seems to me he played some good coverage today and didn't get targeted at times as well.
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Old 10-30-2011   #674
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

[quote=fiasco west;1816371]
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Hmm seems to me he played some good coverage today and didn't get targeted at times as well.
the guy was like 9 of 30 come on now really. and that is not cause KJ is so bad ass
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Old 10-30-2011   #675
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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it is still beyond foolish to always compare KJ to Reevis and Aso. He is not even in the same ball park so quit comparing . Thats like me comparing the Canada military to the United States. It just seems foolish
You're crazy, dude!

And that's why it's so irritating, I just don't want to respond to your posts.

I'm not comparing KJ to these guys.
When I compare them, it would be against their first and a half year in the league!
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Old 10-30-2011   #676
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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You're crazy, dude!

And that's why it's so irritating, I just don't want to respond to your posts.

I'm not comparing KJ to these guys.
When I compare them, it would be against their first and a half year in the league!
if you have been reading Fiasco's posts you would see what i am talking about i never said YOU are saying it. Although i do remember in the past you doing so.
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Old 10-30-2011   #677
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

[quote=EllisUnit;1816373]
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the guy was like 9 of 30 come on now really. and that is not cause Jason Allen is so bad ass
fixed.

Personally I'd credit the front 7 a lot more...
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Old 10-30-2011   #678
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Where did you say it? By choosing to say it the way you did. That's code for "The interception stats or QB stats are not THAT important."
How do you expect anyone to keep up if you're arguing with your imagination half the time? You can't put words in a guys mouth like that.

He said INTs aren't everything when grading CBs.. just like sacks aren't the most important thing when grading DL
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Look, is not the goal of football to either score points or to get the ball away from the other team so you can try to score points?
The goal of the offense is to score points.

The goal of the defense is to stop them from scoring points.

Taking the ball away is the most effective way of preventing the other team from scoring, but it is not the only way. If Kareem gets a 1 for 20 snaps where he performed well, a 0 for three snaps he didn't then he scores 20 out of 23. giving up a TD, lets say that knocks him down 2 points. 18 out of 23.

Jason Allen, then scores 1 point for 16 plays where he performed well out of 22 snaps, then 2 points for the INT, Allen scores 18 out of 22 then it's a wash & you're lucky their QB didn't take advantage of the 6 snaps Allen didn't do his job.

Now I'm just pulling these numbers out of thin air, I have no idea how the Texans are grading their CBs.... I also have not charted each play, but my gut is telling me that Kareem has been much more solid in coverage than Allen. I don't know if he's been so much better that it compensates for Allens knack for INTs.

I've already said that I would "reward" Allen with the "starter" tag, but if I were king, Kj would still get more snaps than Allen, because Kj looks like the future at #2CB.
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The story I'm interested in is "Who is the better and more productive CB this 2011 season?" The answer is Jason Allen. Maybe next year KJ blossoms but I doubt it.
Kj's worse series, he kept allowing Lance Moore to complete a slant in front of him. Three times in a row. Then when he "adjusts" to take away the slant, Moore runs right by him for a TD.

Kj's next action was against the Ravens.... Flacco tested him, but pretty much got nothing (other than the PI).

Now, Allen get's punked by Brandon Marshall.... twice, once he got rode like a cheap whore into the endzone.

He got picked on against the Steelers, gave up some yards, not much... did come up with an INT.

Heyward-Bay ran three out routes on Allen, before the half. Stopping the clock with each reception (this was inside of two minutes). Allen decides to try to stop him, and gets trucked (that's code for ran the f@$ over) for a TD.


Other than the Lance Moore drive in New Orleans, Kj has been pretty quite until today, when he gave up 1 TD.

I think the argument can be made that Kj has been more productive than Allen even without the use of all the pictures
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Old 10-30-2011   #679
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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if you have been reading Fiasco's posts you would see what i am talking about i never said YOU are saying it. Although i do remember in the past you doing so.
Man i'm not the one saying KJ is slow. Whose 40 time do you want me to bring out to compare with? Petey Faggins?

I guarantee you when a team gets a new young WR that people are looking at AJ and seeing how their guy stacks up.
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Old 10-30-2011   #680
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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if you have been reading Fiasco's posts you would see what i am talking about i never said YOU are saying it. Although i do remember in the past you doing so.
You are crazy dude!

When I bring up a specific play that is to compare how different CBs play a certain route/pattern in a certain coverage.

When I brought up the numbers of INTs it was to show that some higher draft choices didn't have much to speak of earlier in their career either!
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