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Old 10-30-2011   #581
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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i agree but i take allens 3 ints over jackson knocking down a few passes.
I really don't see Allen as being any better than Kareem. Just that Kareem is younger and still has a ceiling. Allen does have 3 INTs though, the 3rd one was a great play.

The first one was a hail mary INT. Hey if Kareem looks for the ball and tries to make a play on it like he did today he may find himself picking off a pass too.
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Old 10-30-2011   #582
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

The way I see it (which I'm sure has been said in this thread a few times) is that Allen is better in coverage, and KJ is a better tackler and plays the run better.
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Old 10-30-2011   #583
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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I really don't see Allen as being any better than Kareem. Just that Kareem is younger and still has a ceiling. Allen does have 3 INTs though, the 3rd one was a great play.

The first one was a hail mary INT. Hey if Kareem looks for the ball and tries to make a play on it like he did today he may find himself picking off a pass too.
Thats the key in his second season he still dont do this consistently. And he still gets beat, thank god for our half descent pass rush other wise K.J would still be getting abused.
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Old 10-30-2011   #584
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Thats the key in his second season he still dont do this consistently. And he still gets beat, thank god for our half descent pass rush other wise K.J would still be getting abused.
Couldn't you say the same thing about Allen? He's not exactly over there shutting guys down.
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Old 10-30-2011   #585
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
Thats the key in his second season he still dont do this consistently. And he still gets beat, thank god for our half descent pass rush other wise K.J would still be getting abused.
Although I think KJ is a below average CB at this moment, I think the same could be said about just about all CBs on teams with a good pass rush.
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Old 10-30-2011   #586
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Couldn't you say the same thing about Allen? He's not exactly over there shutting guys down.
he still did have a boat load of ints last season, and regardless of what some say. He didnt get beat near as bad as KJ did last season.
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Old 10-30-2011   #587
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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he still did have a boat load of ints last season, and regardless of what some say. He didnt get beat near as bad as KJ did last season.
Really everyone sucked on the secondary last year. I'm not going to say anyone played better than anyone else. You can also blame the lack of pass rush as well, poor safety play...I don't know why everyone wants to point to Kareem and say "Thats it!" Even Quinn was moved from CB to Safety. Also of course Kareem didn't do well last season, he was a rookie CB thrown into the fire.

The difference is we have a Defensive coordinator that knows what he's doing and is putting these guys in better positions. Which is probably why we have seen little of Harris this season compared to how Kareem was just thrown out there.
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Old 10-30-2011   #588
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by fiasco west View Post
Really everyone sucked on the secondary last year. I'm not going to say anyone played better than anyone else. Even Quinn was moved from CB to Safety. Also of course Kareem didn't do well last season, he was a rookie CB thrown into the fire.

The difference is we have a Defensive coordinator that knows what he's doing and is putting these guys in better positions. Which is probably why we have seen little of Harris this season compared to how Kareem was just thrown out there.
I still have seen NOTHING from KJ this season that shows me he will one day be a good CB. He lacks good CB speed, only thing he can do is tackle, but there are more important traits to being a CB than tackling.
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Old 10-30-2011   #589
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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The way I see it (which I'm sure has been said in this thread a few times) is that Allen is better in coverage, and KJ is a better tackler and plays the run better.
If you're going to have a corner be weaker in one than the other, it better be run support in today's league. Jason Allen is no great shakes, but at least he's in on plays and getting involved. Kareem is so frequently trailing plays and/or out of the frame that it's just frustrating to watch.
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Old 10-30-2011   #590
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
I still have seen NOTHING from KJ this season that shows me he will one day be a good CB. He lacks good CB speed, only thing he can do is tackle, but there are more important traits to being a CB than tackling.
Honestly if he just looks for the ball he'd make a lot more plays. Speed was never his strength it was always him being physical. I'd say he did that today, today he looked like the 'NFL Ready' corner we were suppose to draft.

I don't know if i'd say he's never did anything good. That's just not true.
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Old 10-30-2011   #591
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Honestly if he just looks for the ball he'd make a lot more plays. Speed was never his strength it was always him being physical. I'd say he did that today, today he looked like the 'NFL Ready' corner we were suppose to draft.

I don't know if i'd say he's never did anything good. That's just not true.
i just said i have seen nothing from him. besides causing 1 fumble, no play of his sticks out to me this season. Waht about jojo, and allen they have plays that stick out. but not him
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Old 10-30-2011   #592
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

The thing about KJ: he is improving. He was thrown into an impossible situation last year - and that abuse must`ve hurt his self esteem. The first half of last season was ugly, the second half was bad... the first half of this season is decent. He still seems lost sometimes, but not nearly as bad, as he used to. Right now he is a slightly below average #2CB. But he is getting better. I don`t think he will ever be a shutdown #1CB. But I am pretty sure, that he will develope into a pretty good CB that will earn about 4-6 million a year.

Allen is the flashier player that looks more comfortable on the field. With him you know what you get: agile WR will beat him, he will miss some tackles, but most of the time he will have decent coverage and come up with a cople of INTs in the season. That`s alright for a #2CB - but I don`t see him getting better.

So, just keep doing the time sharing at #2CB, keep em both fresh and let KJ learn a thing or two from JoJo. He will grab the job full time by the start of next season...
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Old 10-30-2011   #593
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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i just said i have seen nothing from him. besides causing 1 fumble, no play of his sticks out to me this season. Waht about jojo, and allen they have plays that stick out. but not him
I think when Kareem has a good play it goes largely unnoticed because he's not getting a INT. He's played good coverage defense before, in fact it happens a lot more than people think around here. Just that it doesn't result in a INT or deflection.

I'm not going to change your opinion. This is how I feel about Kareem though. I think when it is said and done he'll be a better CB than Allen is right now. As for how good he can be, I have no idea. But he's not as bad as he was his rookie year where he was getting put on a island than getting torched and put on highlight reels every week seemingly.
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Old 10-30-2011   #594
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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The thing about KJ: he is improving. He was thrown into an impossible situation last year - and that abuse must`ve hurt his self esteem. The first half of last season was ugly, the second half was bad... the first half of this season is decent. He still seems lost sometimes, but not nearly as bad, as he used to. Right now he is a slightly below average #2CB. But he is getting better. I don`t think he will ever be a shutdown #1CB. But I am pretty sure, that he will develope into a pretty good CB that will earn about 4-6 million a year.

Allen is the flashier player that looks more comfortable on the field. With him you know what you get: agile WR will beat him, he will miss some tackles, but most of the time he will have decent coverage and come up with a cople of INTs in the season. That`s alright for a #2CB - but I don`t see him getting better.

So, just keep doing the time sharing at #2CB, keep em both fresh and let KJ learn a thing or two from JoJo. He will grab the job full time by the start of next season...
ummmm sometimes, but speed will beat KJ every time. Atleast allen has the ability to run stride for stride with a faster WR.
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Old 10-30-2011   #595
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
The thing about KJ: he is improving. He was thrown into an impossible situation last year - and that abuse must`ve hurt his self esteem. The first half of last season was ugly, the second half was bad... the first half of this season is decent. He still seems lost sometimes, but not nearly as bad, as he used to. Right now he is a slightly below average #2CB. But he is getting better. I don`t think he will ever be a shutdown #1CB. But I am pretty sure, that he will develope into a pretty good CB that will earn about 4-6 million a year.

Allen is the flashier player that looks more comfortable on the field. With him you know what you get: agile WR will beat him, he will miss some tackles, but most of the time he will have decent coverage and come up with a cople of INTs in the season. That`s alright for a #2CB - but I don`t see him getting better.

So, just keep doing the time sharing at #2CB, keep em both fresh and let KJ learn a thing or two from JoJo. He will grab the job full time by the start of next season...
This is pretty much how I feel about the situation. Except that I believe Kareem can be better than Allen. What we are doing now works for us any ways, splitting time at CB#2.

He's playing a position that has proven to take some time to pick up. It's important that he shows improvement and he has. Either he gets incrementally better and become a solid #2 or #3 Corner which is highly likely...or it suddenly clicks and he becomes a player that we will enjoy watching. He still has that ceiling that Allen just doesn't have any more.

Also that what we are doing now isn't really destroying the team. We still have a top defense and can afford his growing pains...right now at least.
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Old 10-30-2011   #596
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

We played against one of the worse passing offenses in the league
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Old 10-30-2011   #597
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

Jason Allen is a better corner than Kareem Jackson....both get beat, but one makes plays. This thread just need to fade away. Kareem Jackson is not going to pan out as a 1st round pick, he is what he is. A player just doesn't get faster after he's been in the league for multiple years and Kareem Jackson will never posses "closing speed".
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Old 10-30-2011   #598
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Jason Allen is a better corner than Kareem Jackson....both get beat, but one makes plays. This thread just need to fade away. Kareem Jackson is not going to pan out as a 1st round pick, he is what he is. A player just doesn't get faster after he's been in the league for multiple years and Kareem Jackson will never posses "closing speed".
Playing DB in the NFL is not all about speed. Otherwise Desean Jackson would be a elite WR because he'd be faster than most guys across from him.

Edit: Also that even guys that come in with speed struggle. It's a lot more than just having speed. It's about knowing routes and being physical when you can.
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Old 10-30-2011   #599
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Playing DB in the NFL is not all about speed. Otherwise Desean Jackson would be a elite WR because he'd be faster than most guys across from him.

Edit: Also that even guys that come in with speed struggle. It's a lot more than just having speed. It's about knowing routes and being physical when you can.
Difference. WRs have to run route, fake in and go out, all a CB has to do is follow and have speed to keep up. i'm sorry but speed is the main component to a good CB. Aso and Reevis arent slow, neither was aaron glenn, our D-Rob, our JoJo. Name 1 good slow cb ????
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Old 10-30-2011   #600
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Nothing against kareem's play today but I just want to reiterate Allen getting his hands on balls and the fact that i like the combo of the two.
That was a quality INT by Allen. I don't know how Kubiak can justify not giving Allen the starting job. Like you said, it's not that he is necessarily better, but he gets his hands on the ball.

I don't know if that's the message you want to send to Kj, to start taking chances; jumping routes & stuff, but it's not like Allen is taking any.... he's playing good coverage (at times) & taking advantage of opportunity when it presents itself.

Jason Allen plays special teams.. I can see Kareem coming in after Kick-off returns, but if I were Kubiak, Allen would "start" maybe not get any more snaps, but he should be "named" the "starter"
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