Kubiak 2011 coach of year?

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by DocBar

I stand behind my vote for Harbaugh in SF. The Texans have had talented payers but lacked a talented coordinator.

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

The same can be said about SanFran. That's the same team Nolan was building, that Singletary continued building. There may be three new starters on both sides of the ball.

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

16-0

Undefeated = COY

McCarthy

Now that GB has lost can McCarthy still get CotY with a 15-1 record?

I don't think SF beats Pittsburgh tonight ... The Steelers will be on a mission since a Pittsburgh win means they go to the top of the AFC North. And Big Ben is supposed to start.

So you have McCarthy at 15-1, Harbaugh at 11-5 (I don't think they beat the redhot Seahawks up in Seattle next week either), or Kubiak at 12-4.

Who's Coach of the Year??

I still say McCarthy.

[badboy]

I think loss against Panthers hurt Kubiak's chances. He needed to win out and at least one PO win.

[ATXtexanfan]

why would anyone pick kubiak for coach of the year when we all know wade saved is ass?

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by ATXtexanfan

why would anyone pick kubiak for coach of the year when we all know wade saved is ass?

Wade's defense without Kubiak's offense = Jacksonville

[badboy]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Wade's defense without Kubiak's offense = Jacksonville

This is why. Texans offense is very good and we have been winning with many key injuries. I still challenge anyone supporting another head coach to compare our injurires to the other candidates injury list.

[dream_team]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Wade's defense without Kubiak's offense = Jacksonville

If the Texans win out... no matter what happens with the other teams, I'd still give COTY to Kubiak. What he has done, despite all of the injuries, is a minor miracle. Every week, the team had a reason to lose and blame the injuries... but they didn't, they accepted the "next man up" mantra and continued on their mission.

The COTY award is awarded for this season, and this season only. So you can't judge him on past seasons.

And in the past, we kept blaming all of the defensive woes on Kubiak, regardless who he had at DC. But now that the defense is playing well, Kubiak doesn't get any credit?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by dream_team

And in the past, we kept blaming all of the defensive woes on Kubiak, regardless who he had at DC. But now that the defense is playing well, Kubiak doesn't get any credit?

I think Kubiak definitely deserves consideration.

However, I do understand the argument here. Kubiak & Rick Smith didn't go too far outside their circle of friends when they attempted to fill the DC position. They didn't bring Greg Williams in for a talk. They didn't bring Nolan in for a talk.

They brought Frank Bush in 2008, but didn't get rid of Richard Smith until 2009, then automatically promoted Bush while presenting a weak attempt to look outside the organization.

As far as anyone knows, Kubiak & Rick Smith did not reach out to Wade Phillips. McNair did & McNair landed him.

So, I do understand fans not giving Kubiak credit for the defense (even though the majority of the ingredients were already here, even though the draft looked just like any Kubiak/Smith draft since 2007). I don't agree, but I understand.

From what I gather, the way Kubiak & Smith talk, every decision is a decision agreed upon by a certain group. Sometimes it's Smith, Kubiak, McNair & Cal. Sometimes it's Kubiak & his coaching staff. But it is rarely ever just Kubiak's decision for this, or Smith's decision for that. By that same token, I do not buy it was McNair's decision to bring in Wade. I think they all came to the conclusion that we would have a great team with Wade running the defense. Kubiak's job may have been held as leverage, I don't know, but it is plausible.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I think Kubiak definitely deserves consideration.

However, I do understand the argument here. Kubiak & Rick Smith didn't go too far outside their circle of friends when they attempted to fill the DC position. They didn't bring Greg Williams in for a talk. They didn't bring Nolan in for a talk.

They brought Frank Bush in 2008, but didn't get rid of Richard Smith until 2009, then automatically promoted Bush while presenting a weak attempt to look outside the organization.

As far as anyone knows, Kubiak & Rick Smith did not reach out to Wade Phillips. McNair did & McNair landed him.

So, I do understand fans not giving Kubiak credit for the defense (even though the majority of the ingredients were already here, even though the draft looked just like any Kubiak/Smith draft since 2007). I don't agree, but I understand.

From what I gather, the way Kubiak & Smith talk, every decision is a decision agreed upon by a certain group. Sometimes it's Smith, Kubiak, McNair & Cal. Sometimes it's Kubiak & his coaching staff. But it is rarely ever just Kubiak's decision for this, or Smith's decision for that. By that same token, I do not buy it was McNair's decision to bring in Wade. I think they all came to the conclusion that we would have a great team with Wade running the defense. Kubiak's job may have been held as leverage, I don't know, but it is plausible.

The red and the blue statements are in direct conflict. Are you saying the red statement is the "conventional local wisdom" and the blue is what you believe actually went down...?

[Dutchrudder]

The AP COTY award is awarded before the Super Bowl is played, and it seems the voting is concluded just after the conference championships (can't find specifics on it, but if someone else can please post). So playoff performance could have something to do with who wins the award, but looking at past winners it seems to deal more with regular season accomplishments. If you look at past award winners you can see that the voters love turn-around years and regular season domination.

Past few winners:
2010 Bill Bellichek New England Patriots - 14-2 Pats domination
2009 Marvin Lewis Cincinnati Bengals - Turnaround to a playoff team
2008 Mike Smith Atlanta Falcons - 11-5 turnaround year for that team
2007 Bill Belichick(2) New England Patriots - 16-0 domination
2006 Sean Payton New Orleans Saints - Big year for NO 13-3
2005 Lovie Smith Chicago Bears - 11-5 after going 5-11 last season
2004 Marty Schottenheimer San Diego Chargers 12-4 after going 4-12 last season
2003 Bill Belichick New England Patriots - 14-2 domination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ch_of_the_Year

I don't think the Texans are quite as big of a turnaround as the 49ers, but I'd put Kubiak at #3 overall behind them and McCarthy. However, AP does have a Coordinator of the Year award, which should go to Wade unanimously.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

The AP COTY award is awarded before the Super Bowl is played, and it seems the voting is concluded just after the conference championships (can't find specifics on it, but if someone else can please post). So playoff performance could have something to do with who wins the award, but looking at past winners it seems to deal more with regular season accomplishments. If you look at past award winners you can see that the voters love turn-around years and regular season domination.

Past few winners:
2010 Bill Bellichek New England Patriots - 14-2 Pats domination
2009 Marvin Lewis Cincinnati Bengals - Turnaround to a playoff team
2008 Mike Smith Atlanta Falcons - 11-5 turnaround year for that team
2007 Bill Belichick(2) New England Patriots - 16-0 domination
2006 Sean Payton New Orleans Saints - Big year for NO 13-3
2005 Lovie Smith Chicago Bears - 11-5 after going 5-11 last season
2004 Marty Schottenheimer San Diego Chargers 12-4 after going 4-12 last season
2003 Bill Belichick New England Patriots - 14-2 domination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ch_of_the_Year

I don't think the Texans are quite as big of a turnaround as the 49ers, but I'd put Kubiak at #3 overall behind them and McCarthy. However, AP does have a Coordinator of the Year award, which should go to Wade unanimously.

I think COTY is based upon regular season only. On your SF pick is the team on it's 3rd string QB? Has it's # 1 WR missed 9 games (includes Dec 22nd)? Did SF lose a starting LB? Did the starting FS break his leg? Did the starting RG break his leg? Just as a starting point.

Not jumping on you but do you look at this aspect or just the W/L turn around from year before?

[Ole Miss Texan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

The AP COTY award is awarded before the Super Bowl is played.....

Thanks for compiling this Dutch, great info!

Originally Posted by badboy

On your SF pick is the team on it's 3rd string QB? Has it's # 1 WR missed 9 games (includes Dec 22nd)? Did SF lose a starting LB? Did the starting FS break his leg? Did the starting RG break his leg? Just as a starting point.

Not jumping on you but do you look at this aspect or just the W/L turn around from year before?

I agree badboy.

I think SF is getting a big boost because of Rookie HC and them starting off so hot. I keep hearing "what a big turn around for the Niners" But it's not like they went from an 0-16 team to 16-0 or anything. If we're looking at past seasons I would say yes the Texans have underperformed BUT we've been very comparable to SF.

2011: HOU (10-4) vs SF (11-3)
2010: HOU (6-10) vs SF (6-10)
2009: HOU (9-7) vs SF (8-8)
2008: HOU (8-8) vs SF (7-9)

The way the Texans have dealt with so much adversity this season is the trump card for me.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Now that GB has lost can McCarthy still get CotY with a 15-1 record?

I don't think SF beats Pittsburgh tonight ... The Steelers will be on a mission since a Pittsburgh win means they go to the top of the AFC North. And Big Ben is supposed to start.

So you have McCarthy at 15-1, Harbaugh at 11-5 (I don't think they beat the redhot Seahawks up in Seattle next week either), or Kubiak at 12-4.

Who's Coach of the Year??

I still say McCarthy.

Now that the 49ers beat down one of the AFC's best teams and the Packers lost to the lowly Chiefs, do you feel any different?

I would give it #1 to Harbaugh and #2 to Kubiak.

McCarthy, great coach, but he's working with the Super Bowl champions this season. That's much different than taking two clubs like the Texans and 49ers to their first playoff berths in a decade.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by badboy

I think COTY is based upon regular season only. On your SF pick is the team on it's 3rd string QB? Has it's # 1 WR missed 9 games (includes Dec 22nd)? Did SF lose a starting LB? Did the starting FS break his leg? Did the starting RG break his leg? Just as a starting point.

Not jumping on you but do you look at this aspect or just the W/L turn around from year before?

They haven't had near the amount of injuries the Texans have this year. In fact, I'd say only about 3 teams have had more IR players than them (Bills, Seahawks and Jags). Although I'm not sure which are starters and which are not. I don't even recognize a few of the Texans' names.

List of all team's IR players:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries/pup

In any case, I think the 49ers will wind up with a 13-3 (seahawks & rams left) record and the Texans will likely be 11-5 or 12-4. I'd still give it to Harbaugh for turning around that team in 1 year, not 6. Wade is the rudder that has righted the course of the Texans ship, not Kubiak. He is without a doubt the Coordinator of the Year. Kubiak is riding his defense at this point.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

In any case, I think the 49ers will wind up with a 13-3 (seahawks & rams left) record and the Texans will likely be 11-5 or 12-4. I'd still give it to Harbaugh for turning around that team in 1 year, not 6. Wade is the rudder that has righted the course of the Texans ship, not Kubiak. He is without a doubt the Coordinator of the Year. Kubiak is riding his defense at this point.

Did Sean Payton win a Super Bowl for the Saints or is that Greg Williams' Super Bowl?

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Did Sean Payton win a Super Bowl for the Saints or is that Greg Williams' Super Bowl?

Super bowl win = team accomplishment

COTY award = individual contribution

Look, if Harbaugh had been the 49ers coach for the past 6 years, then yeah he wouldn't be in the conversation. But it took him 1 year to do what it took Gary 6 years. That's the difference, end of story.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Super bowl win = team accomplishment

COTY award = individual contribution

Look, if Harbaugh had been the 49ers coach for the past 6 years, then yeah he wouldn't be in the conversation. But it took him 1 year to do what it took Gary 6 years. That's the difference, end of story.

I don't have a problem with picking Harbaugh over Kubiak for COTY. I would be upset, if Kubiak got the COTY, for personal reasons.

But to say:

Wade is the rudder that has righted the course of the Texans ship, not Kubiak.

Is just like saying Greg Williams won the Super Bowl, not Sean Payton.

COTY is about the team, keeping the team together & having them play good, competitive football consistently. Wade didn't do that in Dallas.... hence he is not a head coach right now.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I don't have a problem with picking Harbaugh over Kubiak for COTY. I would be upset, if Kubiak got the COTY, for personal reasons.

I agree with that to some extent. I don't hate Kubiak, but I do wish he was an OC rather than an HC.

But to say:


Is just like saying Greg Williams won the Super Bowl, not Sean Payton.

COTY is about the team, keeping the team together & having them play good, competitive football consistently. Wade didn't do that in Dallas.... hence he is not a head coach right now.

If Kubiak won a Super Bowl this year, I would say he's a super bowl winner along with everyone else on the team. It's a team accomplishment. COTY is an individual award to recognize an individual coach's contribution to the team. There's a difference, and it's not to say that the team doesn't matter, but I don't think Kubiak did anything special or different this year. He handed the draft over to Wade to bring in guys for his defense. The best thing he did this year was letting go of control of the draft for the first 4 rounds.

Grabbing Yates may turn out to be a steal, but I don't think that alone is worth the award. In contrast, Harbaugh took a mediocre Alex Smith and turned him into an above average QB. A guy most people had declared a bust (and still is somewhat) and turned the offense around with him at the helm. That's pretty amazing to do in 1 season. Smith has a 91.1 QBR this year, and is on track for his first 3000+ yard season.


Also before someone throws out the inevitable "NFC West is a crappy division" argument, the 49ers Strength of Victory so far is .449 and the Texans is .400.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/t...ory/order/true

[Kaiser Toro]

Kubiak is in the discussion, which is a huge achievement.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

I agree with that to some extent. I don't hate Kubiak, but I do wish he was an OC rather than an HC.

For the record, I don't hate Kubiak. My personal reasons has nothing to do with hate.

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

If Kubiak won a Super Bowl this year, I would say he's a super bowl winner along with everyone else on the team. It's a team accomplishment. COTY is an individual award to recognize an individual coach's contribution to the team. There's a difference, and it's not to say that the team doesn't matter, but I don't think Kubiak did anything special or different this year.

I'm sure this makes perfect sense to you. Please try to understand some of us may find it difficult to understand.

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

He handed the draft over to Wade to bring in guys for his defense. The best thing he did this year was letting go of control of the draft for the first 4 rounds.

This is speculative. The 2011 draft was really no different than any draft since 2006. High character guys, team leaders..... defense heavy, which is probably the main reason Wade was able to turn the defense around so fast.

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Grabbing Yates may turn out to be a steal, but I don't think that alone is worth the award. In contrast, Harbaugh took a mediocre Alex Smith and turned him into an above average QB. A guy most people had declared a bust (and still is somewhat) and turned the offense around with him at the helm. That's pretty amazing to do in 1 season. Smith has a 91.1 QBR this year, and is on track for his first 3000+ yard season.

& you attribute that directly with Harbaugh? People were thinking Cushing was one-&-done, a product of steroids.... he's now leading the team in tackles, some saying he's the best LB in the game.

We took Cincinnati's "other" corner & he's having an all-pro season.

If you want to go offensively, "people" are talking about Chris Myers like he'll be an All-Pro, this "no-name" offensive line is regarded as the best in the league (by some) (San Francisco has 3 first rounders on their OL; Staley, Iupati, Davis. Plus they have a first rounder in Michael Crabtree, & Vernon Davis.

Oh yeah, Alex Smith was a first overall pick.

Then We've got an Undrafted free agent as our leading rusher (& starting RG until recently).

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Also before someone throws out the inevitable "NFC West is a crappy division" argument, the 49ers Strength of Victory so far is .449 and the Texans is .400.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/t...ory/order/true

Like I said, I have no problem giving the award to Harbaugh, I think he is more deserving. I just don't undertand thinking Kubiak doesn't belong in the conversation....

Fangio, Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis has just as much to do with Harbaugh's success as Wade, Joseph, & Cushing.

[BullBlitz]

Wade was the difference this year in the Texans. Harbaugh would get my vote.