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Old 07-08-2011   #1
cland
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Default Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

One of the common misconceptions I see around the forums--typically in the "Bob McNair is so cheap..." type comments--seems to suggest that team salary is unlimited and that any aversion towards signing a free agent is because the owner wants to stuff more money in his pockets.

In reality the total amount of salary a team commits to one position, comes out of the pool for all other positions. This is one of the reasons smart drafting teams do so well...a star player selected from halfway through the first round and down works cheap.

So if you agree with all that, then I'll get on to my point. Darell Revis's latest contract pays him roughly 16 Million per year, so we'll put Nnamdi at that price. Jonathan Joseph's agent is quoted as saying that he's looking for 8 Million a year in his new contract.

So if you extrapolate a bit, would you rather have a pair of corners featuring Nnamdi / Kareem (assuming KJ works for 0) or Joseph / Joseph; in this hypothetical they both cost 16 million per year.

Looking into the future, Jonathan also has age on his side as he's 3 years younger than Nnamdi. If you look at a five year contract, 3 years from now you can see the difference between signing a player that is towards the end of their prime (30), and one who's just started it (27).

I'm as impatient as anyone and would do a happy dance with either one, but what else do we have to talk about?
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Old 07-08-2011   #2
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cland View Post
One of the common misconceptions I see around the forums--typically in the "Bob McNair is so cheap..." type comments--seems to suggest that team salary is unlimited and that any aversion towards signing a free agent is because the owner wants to stuff more money in his pockets.

In reality the total amount of salary a team commits to one position, comes out of the pool for all other positions. This is one of the reasons smart drafting teams do so well...a star player selected from halfway through the first round and down works cheap.

So if you agree with all that, then I'll get on to my point. Darell Revis's latest contract pays him roughly 16 Million per year, so we'll put Nnamdi at that price. Jonathan Joseph's agent is quoted as saying that he's looking for 8 Million a year in his new contract.

So if you extrapolate a bit, would you rather have a pair of corners featuring Nnamdi / Kareem (assuming KJ works for 0) or Joseph / Joseph; in this hypothetical they both cost 16 million per year.

Looking into the future, Jonathan also has age on his side as he's 3 years younger than Nnamdi. If you look at a five year contract, 3 years from now you can see the difference between signing a player that is towards the end of their prime (30), and one who's just started it (27).

I'm as impatient as anyone and would do a happy dance with either one, but what else do we have to talk about?
That is pure nonsense because KJ does NOT work for 0 and you can't assume that for arguments sake or any other. You are correct in saying that paying a lot for one position affects all others.
I'm not in the "McNair is cheap" crowd. I'm glad we don't get in salary cap hell by paying UFA's a ton of money for a last hurrah. FA is not this clubs problem. The draft is. We start more drafted players than anyone in the league, I believe. The problem is that no other team in the NFL would start 30-40% of our players, especially on D. We have left a ton of players on the draft boards who have turned out to be solid starters/superstars. That's been our Achille's Heel for 9 seasons.
Aso is one FA I would break the bank on, though. No issues, whatsoever. Good, solid player. Good, solid person. He's the AJ of the defense.
EDIT: You have to throw coaching and the GM into the Achille's Heel pot. I would say scouting, but we don't know how often they get ignored or overruled. I guess that makes us a victim of 3 Achille's Heels. No wonder we show up Sundays looking like a three legged dog.
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Old 07-08-2011   #3
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

who's the plant?
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Old 07-08-2011   #4
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

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who's the plant?
Rick Smith
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Old 07-08-2011   #5
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

I'll say this, if/when they don't sign Asomugha......they had better put the Brinks truck in gear and back it up at this man's house. We MUST have a better CB in free agency. It HAS to happen.
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Old 07-08-2011   #6
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

Assuming that extra money goes toward improving another position, I'd rather sign a Jonathan Joseph or Richard Marshall.

I'd certainly rather have Joseph/Marshall + Sidney Rice / Vincent Jackson / Pass rushing OLB than just Asomugha. But, if we are just going to sign one impact player and then sign our own guys and "build through the draft," I'd rather get the best guy out there, and that is obviously Asomugha.
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Old 07-08-2011   #7
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

I would sign Joseph because I think our pass rush will be on point this year which will take the pressure off any of the DBs.
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Old 07-08-2011   #8
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

Joseph + Weddle > Aso + Staying pat with the guys we have
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Old 07-08-2011   #9
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

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Joseph + Weddle > Aso + Staying pat with the guys we have
IMO, I agree with this statement. However, there are reasons why I'd like to still just get Aso if we could.

1. Aso, has proven to be a shut down corner without real safety help. His safety was Michael Huff and we don't know who the other guy is.

2. Aso is going to improve our younger guys who are going to be around alot longer like Jackson, Quin and Mccain.

3. As a fanbase, we would finally be able to put to rest that Bob Mcnair is or isn't cheap.

Don't get me wrong, as I said before, I agree with the above statement. But let's get two good players if we can get the one great player, because either way I'm seeing us trying to do something about our team.
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Old 07-08-2011   #10
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

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Joseph + Weddle > Aso + Staying pat with the guys we have
Gonna get a little crazy here.....
Aso+ Weddle+ Phillips > Manning + Brady.....I'm just sayin...
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Old 07-08-2011   #11
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

Based upon what I think it's gonna take to get each guy, I'd say value-wise Joseph would be a better sign. Remember we've got other needs besides CB.
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Old 07-08-2011   #12
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

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Rick Smith
Yeah, the word "extrapolate" is what outed Rick there.

Very "Carlton" from Fresh Prince of Bellaire, IMO.
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Old 07-08-2011   #13
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

BTW, I'd be OK with declining Aso and going after a CB and S combo if the Aso thing can't be done.

Either one will make me happy, though it'd be arguably easier to tie Aso money up into TWO players rather than one. That way if ONE of the two guys doesn't work, you can lose him and keep the one guy who was worth it.

Tying up the bank in Aso means it's Aso and nothing else.
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Old 07-08-2011   #14
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

Let me set up my premise first by saying we franchised Dunta Robinson for $10 m & even today many said we should have done it again for about $11-12m. Having said that sign both Joseph (8) & ASO (16) for 24 or avg $12 m each. Cut a whole lot of crap to get there financially.
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Old 07-08-2011   #15
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

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Let me set up my premise first by saying we franchised Dunta Robinson for $10 m & even today many said we should have done it again for about $11-12m. Having said that sign both Joseph (8) & ASO (16) for 24 or avg $12 m each. Cut a whole lot of crap to get there financially.
Aso and Joseph? Sounds good to me. Sounds real good.

It'd be just like Bob to do some crazy shit like that all of a sudden. Just when you think you got him figured out, he could go and surprise us all.
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Old 07-08-2011   #16
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

I'd rather have ASO...

He's a better player and I think GQ will make a good enough FS...
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Old 07-08-2011   #17
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

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I'd rather have ASO...
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Old 07-08-2011   #18
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

I'd be fine with Joseph as an option B. I think that going hard for Aso would send a strong message to the fanbase and players that the organization wants to win. That, and I'd rather have Aso.
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Old 07-08-2011   #19
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

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That is pure nonsense because KJ does NOT work for 0 and you can't assume that for arguments sake or any other. You are correct in saying that paying a lot for one position affects all others.
I'm not in the "McNair is cheap" crowd. I'm glad we don't get in salary cap hell by paying UFA's a ton of money for a last hurrah.
Well it is nonsense, but I would have thought that cloning Joseph and playing him at two positions would have stood out more. Adding in Kareem's salary is just more evidence that a 16.25 million dollar+ cornerback is a huge investment, especially when the cornerback turned 30 two days ago. I agree with everyone in that our secondary was trash last year, but I don't want the Texans to over-react and put their future on the line to fix the problem.

The differential in cash involved concerns me when we have Mario Williams and Arian Foster** coming up next year for new deals. Maybe it could be looked at as Nnamdi - Mario/Foster vs. Joseph + Mario/Foster.

I do agree that Nnamdi is at least tied for the best CB in the league, and would perform the best at CB in 2012. My problem is that after I've waited for 10 years (see I'm not Rick Smith,) when we finally do get to the playoffs that we're not a flash in the pan, who has to release key players the following year. Good drafting teams and smart spending teams have the opportunity to get in the playoffs, remain in the playoffs, and hopefully one year put all the pieces together to win it all.

Like others have mentioned, I'd much rather see Joseph + FA Safety (Weddle, Goldson, Landry) than just one single CB. If you thought Kareem got targeted last year, just imagine if he has Nnamdi on one side and two inexperienced safeties behind him. I also think about the Patriots who let Ty Law and Asante Samuel go get paid elsewhere rather than overextend themselves.

**Foster will actually be an RFA, so his big payday will come the following year.
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Old 07-08-2011   #20
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Default Re: Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

IMO, I think it is better for us to sign multiple players with the money we would give Asomugha. Sure, Asomugha is an all-pro beast, but a signing with that much money involved might cripple us in the long term. (Don't get me wrong if we do somehow sign Asomugha I would be ecstatic) We don't know how the new cap is going to look, and we still have players that either need or are going to need new contracts. We need to re-sign Leach, and Foster is going to get paid at the end of the day. We have to also think about how much Mario is going to get (If we re-sign him). IMO, a combo of Joseph + Safety or WR is much better than just Asomugha. Also, if one player doesn't work out we can cut/trade him and not be stuck with a huge contract.
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