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Old 04-20-2005   #81
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Originally Posted by Grid
Two words for ya.

Steve.. Foley..

think about it.



as for a 2nd and 3rd being too much.

we had 2 3rds. We got one of those thirds from the drew henson trade (6th for a 3rd)

so really.. we traded a 2nd and a 6th. and moved up in the 3rd (we kept the cowboy's #73)

This is great value for a young player with Buchanan's talents, who just wants a new start somewhere else.

I have thought about it. I already brought up Foley in one of my earlier posts and I've been saying all this with the caveat of "I hope whatever the Texans front office sees in Buchanon pans out".

But in all honesty there's not much to "think about." Just because one poorly performing player turns out to be a diamond in the rough doesn't mean that every player like this will be the same.

And I don't know much about Foley pre-Charger days but I would bet that he wasn't a lockerroom cancer like Buchanon has been.

And no... you didn't give away a 6th. You gave away a third. If I had an accountant who worked numbers like that he would be looking for another job.

If it makes all of you glass half full guys happy, there are some on the Chargers boards who think that Buchanon under the right circumstances will perform well. If he has regular support over the top and you can put some pressure on the QB he will come up with some big plays for you guys. But don't do those two things and he will get burned... just like I've watched him get burned since near the beginning of his career. Or maybe your coaches can convince him to settle down and not bite on every pump fake by the QB and move by a WR.

I hope he pans out for you guys. But if you think this was simply a great deal for a player who simply needed a change I think you've got a case of the "Go Texans! Rah! Rahs!". This guy has problems on and off the field. He is a risk and a project.
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Old 04-20-2005   #82
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Originally Posted by D-ReK
The idea has been brought up before, and I wouldn't mind trading him if we could get a guy like Antrel Rolle since he has the size that our CBs don't have, so he could match up with bigger WRs...
It would appear the Texans' coaching and scouting staffs do not share many fans' opinions on the advantages of matching bigger CB's on bigger WR's:

Aaron Glenn--5' 9" 185 lbs
Dunta Robinson--5' 10" 174 lbs
Demarcus Faggins--5' 10" 178 lbs
Phillip Buchanon--5' 10" 185 lbs

Seems like they are pretty consistant in what they are looking for and it ain't big CB's.
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Old 04-20-2005   #83
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
It would appear the Texans' coaching and scouting staffs do not share many fans' opinions on the advantages of matching bigger CB's on bigger WR's:

Aaron Glenn--5' 9" 185 lbs
Dunta Robinson--5' 10" 174 lbs
Demarcus Faggins--5' 10" 178 lbs
Phillip Buchanon--5' 10" 185 lbs

Seems like they are pretty consistant in what they are looking for and it ain't big CB's.
We did have Coleman playing CB though, and he's 6'2"...Casserly has already said he liked Rolle and he was brought in for a visit, though it is possible that it was all just positioning on his part...I think size may be overrated though, and can be made up for by a good vertical and proper positioning, which is what Glenn excels at...Hopefully he can teach a few things to Buchanon, assuming we keep him, of course...
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Old 04-20-2005   #84
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not sure if we will try to get a CB...I mean cap wise it would cost us (for top10 pick)... (meaning why not trade up for DJ if that is who we are targeting instead of CB)

Quote:
Buchanon has two years remaining on the contract he signed with the Raiders as a rookie. His base salaries will pay him $700,000 this season and $800,000 in 2006. The $4 million signing bonus Buchanon received as a rookie will not affect the Texans' cap, as it will accelerate to the Raiders' cap this year.
www.houstonprofootball.com
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Old 04-20-2005   #85
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Originally Posted by Enormo
But in all honesty there's not much to "think about." Just because one poorly performing player turns out to be a diamond in the rough doesn't mean that every player like this will be the same.

And I don't know much about Foley pre-Charger days but I would bet that he wasn't a lockerroom cancer like Buchanon has been.
And neither you or I can say who will do better somewhere else, and who wont. So its kinda pointless for you to say he will keep sucking when you have nothing to base that on.

And he has been playing for the Raiders :P. Of course he became a "lockerroom cancer".. but he is coming to Houston where NO ONE is a lockerroom cancer, and he will be playing alongside his Andre Johnson (who was at the U with him) and training under John Hoke (who recruited him)

I would say that puts him in a very good position to finally get rid of some of that attitude and show his true potential.



Quote:
If it makes all of you glass half full guys happy, there are some on the Chargers boards who think that Buchanon under the right circumstances will perform well. If he has regular support over the top and you can put some pressure on the QB he will come up with some big plays for you guys. But don't do those two things and he will get burned... just like I've watched him get burned since near the beginning of his career. Or maybe your coaches can convince him to settle down and not bite on every pump fake by the QB and move by a WR.

I hope he pans out for you guys. But if you think this was simply a great deal for a player who simply needed a change I think you've got a case of the "Go Texans! Rah! Rahs!". This guy has problems on and off the field. He is a risk and a project.
For one.. its pretty stupid of you to come to a Texans fan board and accuse them of being positive about the Texans.

Two.. he has been in the league THREE seasons. he looked good his first season.. he developed his attitude and bad habits in his second season.. and he wanted to leave and refused to play hard in his third season. I would hardly say that that is enough info to call him a bust. If he can come here and get a fresh start.. there is no reason to beleive that he cant become the player he had the potential to be when he was drafted.

Why I am even bothering to write this is beyond me. You are a charger fan, on our bourd, telling us we are homers . And on top of that.. we are talking the merits of a player who played for one of your rival teams, and got burned by you last year (when he wasnt playing hard, remember?)


It is all conjecture at this point.. and you are no more right than I am on this subject. So quit flingin around the stereotypes eh?
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Old 04-20-2005   #86
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For the Texans to get the biggest steal since the Louisianna Purchace and want to trade him off for moving up in the draft now would just be insane IMO. Let's see what happens come draft day.
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Old 04-20-2005   #87
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Originally Posted by Wolf
not sure if we will try to get a CB...I mean cap wise it would cost us (for top10 pick)... (meaning why not trade up for DJ if that is who we are targeting instead of CB)

Any chance of us getting DJ fell through the roof when we made this trade. Unless DJ falls to 13.

That is fine though because DJ was sound more and more questionable as the draft got closer :P. I think Merriman and Pollack are as good a prospect(s) as DJ... and one or both could be available to us at 13.
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Old 04-20-2005   #88
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Originally Posted by dagr8whitehope
With that 13, do you think we go OL or DL, both could use some help, but I see more D-linemen available later in the draft but only 1 dominant O-lineman, that being Barron.
As much as I would love to see us upgrade our LT on offense, we REALLY need a defensive lineman or a linebacker. Our defensive line got real old real fast and our linebackers aren't making plays.

Defense is our most pressing need. Besides a rookie LT is going to make a lot of costly mistakes. I could handle rookie mistakes the last 3 years, but not next year. We should be making a serious run at the playoffs next year, so I'm not going to have a lot a patience for a rookie LT giving up sacks and penalties.
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Old 04-20-2005   #89
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I guess my big disappointment is that I'd like to see us upgrade the OL, and having given up two picks, I'm not sure we'll do that. On the other hand, Capers and Co. may have already figured out exactly how to upgrade the line without those picks.

Maybe they're waiting to pick up somebody June 1, or maybe they've got something in the works now. Just feel like after they went after Pace, they were intent on fixing part of the line this year.

Somehow, I think they've got a little more savvy than me. Hopefully will feel better Saturday or Sunday.
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Old 04-20-2005   #90
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I guess my big disappointment is that I'd like to see us upgrade the OL, and having given up two picks, I'm not sure we'll do that. On the other hand, Capers and Co. may have already figured out exactly how to upgrade the line without those picks.
I will admit, I have been ranting and raving the last few weeks about how we need to improve the O line and draft O line, but after thinking about it, I don't think this year's draft is the way to improve the O line. Our O line now has one full year together under their belt, so I am willing to give them one more year to see how they pan out, and if they don't pan out, we could draft O line in next year's draft, which should have much better O line talent than this year's draft. I am all for drafting defense with our first pick in this year's draft, I say we draft someone who could come in and start and be a monster on defense with our 1st pick this year, add him to Babin who has a year under his belt, DRob, Buchanon now and our defense should be good to go. And I know Vinny, this thread is getting off topic, but it was off topic when I got here...
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Old 04-20-2005   #91
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Wonder what other surprises CC is going to spring on us.

Don't know if it's been posted in here somewhere, BUT Oakland traded that #47 to the Jets tonight.
Interesting week!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg.../RAIDERS21.TMP
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Old 04-20-2005   #92
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Originally Posted by Grid
And neither you or I can say who will do better somewhere else, and who wont. So its kinda pointless for you to say he will keep sucking when you have nothing to base that on.

And he has been playing for the Raiders :P. Of course he became a "lockerroom cancer".. but he is coming to Houston where NO ONE is a lockerroom cancer, and he will be playing alongside his Andre Johnson (who was at the U with him) and training under John Hoke (who recruited him)

I would say that puts him in a very good position to finally get rid of some of that attitude and show his true potential.


For one.. its pretty stupid of you to come to a Texans fan board and accuse them of being positive about the Texans.

Two.. he has been in the league THREE seasons. he looked good his first season.. he developed his attitude and bad habits in his second season.. and he wanted to leave and refused to play hard in his third season. I would hardly say that that is enough info to call him a bust. If he can come here and get a fresh start.. there is no reason to beleive that he cant become the player he had the potential to be when he was drafted.

Why I am even bothering to write this is beyond me. You are a charger fan, on our bourd, telling us we are homers . And on top of that.. we are talking the merits of a player who played for one of your rival teams, and got burned by you last year (when he wasnt playing hard, remember?)


It is all conjecture at this point.. and you are no more right than I am on this subject. So quit flingin around the stereotypes eh?
Sorry you feel it necesary to lash out like that.

I think you guys have a good team and I said that I hope your coaches find the key to unlocking Buchanons potential.

Stereotypes? Buchanon a bust? Hey, you said it. I didn't.

Nice talking to all of you who wanted to have a discussion. Enjoy your board.
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Old 04-20-2005   #93
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i think after hearing the press conference with casserly and capers it definitly sounds like we are trading down unless a true impact player falls to us...like benson or one of the top recievers...dj won't fall...i think we trade down somewhere between 16-24 and pick either clayton, spears, or one of the remaining DE/OLB's...the main question now is who is starting next to D-Rob...capers hinted that aaron might be placed as the third corner due to buchanan's ability...personally i see PB being our nickelback for a year but after that i'd say it's just up to competition to see who's better between him and glenn...either way i'm looking forward to the draft on saturday...it's the only good thing that seems to be going on this week
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Old 04-20-2005   #94
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Originally Posted by SassyTexan
Wonder what other surprises CC is going to spring on us.

Don't know if it's been posted in here somewhere, BUT Oakland traded that #47 to the Jets tonight.
Interesting week!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg.../RAIDERS21.TMP
what did they get for it ? sorry did'nt see the link
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Old 04-20-2005   #95
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Originally Posted by canadiantexan
what did they get for it ?
it was their TE jolley and the no.2 to the Jets for the Jets #25 overall pick
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Old 04-20-2005   #96
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kinda old stuff, but i don't like how the Raiders fan come in here and say we don't know how to draft in the past 3 years or so. LOL

they are the ones who drafted Nmandi Asomugha and Derick Gibson in the 1st rounds. lol.
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Old 04-20-2005   #97
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Originally Posted by scourge
Buchanon's agent told Casserly that Buchanon is happy to be headed to Houston, where he will be teammates with close friend Andre Johnson.
nfl.com

I knew they had played together at the U, but didnt know they were all that close... his agent saying he's happy to be heading here makes me like this all the more.
Isn't his agent Rosenhaus? Has there been any talk that he wants a new contract or anything? I don't necessarily see anything he's done that deserves a bigger contract but I was just curious if we've actually heard "from the horse's mouth" that renegotiating his contract was/was not involved in this deal? Rosenhaus just makes me nervous....
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Old 04-20-2005   #98
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I love this trade.

This shows initiative Its telling me we are tired of projects and we are gonna get impact players now.

Buchanon was a cancer in the lockeroom so was Woodson, Barrett (missing in action) Robbins, and most of the Defense last year. You cant blame Buchanon for the whole defense last year Sapp was even disgusted at how the unit performed. I think the raiders are cleaning out the players they didnt like who have potential but were not happy so they are gone. Harris, Buchanon, had value so they traded for what they could get.

So lets look at needs now

WR - Bradford Resigning - Not our #1 Pick
OL - Barron - could be our target who knows.
LB - Plethora of mega athletic Tweeners this year most like where we go with #1 pick
CB - Well I think this deal tells all we need to know.
S - Davis too high at 13
RB - No way we need instant defensive starters.
TE - no fantastic TE
DL - Depends if Spears falls to us if we trade down then this is our #1
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Old 04-20-2005   #99
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Originally Posted by canadiantexan
what did they get for it ? sorry did'nt see the link
from that link:
Quote:
Raiders deal tight end Jolley to Jets
Trade puts Oakland back in the first round

Nancy Gay, Chronicle Staff writer
Thursday, April 21, 2005

The Raiders moved back into the first round of Saturday's NFL Draft, agreeing to a trade deal with the Jets on Wednesday that will send fourth-year tight end Doug Jolley to New York, along with three 2005 picks, for the No. 26 overall pick and a seventh-round selection.

Once Jolley passes a physical and the trade becomes final, the Raiders will have a first-round pick, a second-round pick (No. 38 overall), two third-round selections (Nos. 69 and 78) and two sixth-round picks (Nos. 212 and 214).

In return, two NFL sources said the Jets will receive the second-round pick the Raiders acquired on Tuesday from Houston in the Phillip Buchanon deal (No. 47 overall), the 182nd and 185th picks overall (both in the sixth-round) as well as Jolley, 26, a former second-round pick out of Brigham Young in the 2002 draft.

The deal satisfies the Raiders' desire to jump back into the first round after surrendering the No. 7 overall pick to the Minnesota Vikings as part of the Randy Moss deal. It also gives them value for a player who had fallen off the map in Norv Turnerís deep ball offense.
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Old 04-20-2005   #100
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Originally Posted by Grid


as for a 2nd and 3rd being too much.

we had 2 3rds. We got one of those thirds from the drew henson trade (6th for a 3rd)

so really.. we traded a 2nd and a 6th. and moved up in the 3rd (we kept the cowboy's #73)

This is great value for a young player with Buchanan's talents, who just wants a new start somewhere else.
i hope the front office doesnt think like that. we work hard to get those extra picks. even though we turned our 6th into a 3rd. its a third now and should not be though of as a 6th.

two years ago we worked hard to get an extra pick from the raiders and spent it on hollings and a lot of people rationalized that it was a free pick so it would not matter if it was a bust. free pick or not it was a second round pick and should have been thought of as such. not much use in working to get those picks if you devalue them once you have em'.

Last edited by utahmark; 04-20-2005 at 09:30 PM.
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