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Old 06-17-2004   #21
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Originally Posted by __V__
Warren Moon pretty much put the "black QB" issue to bed a couple of decades ago. Frankly a running QB has yet to capture the big crown for many reasons and one of them is that they take more hits and have a hard time staying healthy in a NFL season. I would take McNair over Manning myself but not because he is black or a better athlete. I think he is a better clutch player.

nah Moon didn't calm that down. there were a few Qb's who were passed over after him. black players are still saying when they go to college with there speed and athleticm coaches are wanting them to switch to a better position suited for them such as wr's and db's. notice how qb's such as seneca wallace have been picked over cause of height. ell roberson.this list could go on. it's known that vick isn't even 6ft but couldnt be picked over cause of his arm. what nfl gm's and coaches fail to realize these mobile qb's don't have to be in the 6'2 to 6'5 range cause they move outside the pocket where height isn't needed. shoot look at payton manning all that arm and no mobility. what can he do if you put pressure on him. nothing at all. need some examples:jason white at out put some pressure on him and that gimp can't do anything, look at drew bledsoe has one of the best arms put him on the run he can't think straight with pressure, look at umm any pocket qb they cant' think str8 with pressure. heck with the way DE 's are getting faster. the pocket qb's days are dwindling. like i said the day of the black qb will come when people realize players are faster and quicker. heck DT running 4.9 and 4.8 is crazy. heck you got lb's running 4.5 now!! what can a pocket qb do to offset that. NOTHING.
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Old 06-17-2004   #22
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Manning is also more durable because he doesnt run. He has never missed a game in his career, McNair missed around 3 last year.

I think Brady is a top 5 QB, but not number 1. For me it would be something like:
1) Manning
2 & 3) McNair/Brady
4) Favre
5) McNabb/Culpepper


McNair and Brady are switchable, but I give the edge to the co-MVP.

Favre is still Favre and McNabb may have lost in the NFC championship game 3 times, but the fact is he has gotten there three times with no help from his WRs.

Culpepper was 6th on the all time passer rating chart before 04, maybe it is because he has Moss, but you cant deny that he puts the ball in the right places. I'd take McNabb and Culpepper over Vick any day to win a game.
cullpeper is good but forces the ball the alot to moss. umm manning isn't number 1 what has he done? he has one of the best wr's in the league and one of the best rb's and your saying he's all that. brady has won 2 super bowls with average at best qb's and below par running game. heck i'd take brady any day over manning. heck wait and see what he can do when he has a rb to take the pressure off of him. cheers.
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Old 06-17-2004   #23
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Originally Posted by MoBlack
like i said the day of the black qb will come when people realize players are faster and quicker. heck DT running 4.9 and 4.8 is crazy. heck you got lb's running 4.5 now!! what can a pocket qb do to offset that. NOTHING.
You offset it with quick throws, reading defenses, knowing what the defense might run.Manning has put up 4,000 yards in each of his NFL seasons passing the ball and he is slow but he studies and knows what the defense is going to do and how to counter that. Tom Brady is as slow as Manning and just won a superbowl. You dont need to be fast to play any position, you need to be smart.
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Old 06-17-2004   #24
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ok ok i did leave McNabb off my new list looks like this

1. McNair
Co #1. Tom Brady
2. McNabb
3. Farve
4. Manning
5.Culpeper

McNabb just like Brady and Mcnair don't have all star recievers but they find a way to make it happen in the clutch
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Old 06-17-2004   #25
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Originally Posted by MoBlack
. brady has won 2 super bowls with average at best qb's and below par running game. heck i'd take brady any day over manning. heck wait and see what he can do when he has a rb to take the pressure off of him. cheers.
I would also say that Brady has had a pretty good defense to help win those 2 super bowls. What help has Peyton had on defense?
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Old 06-17-2004   #26
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Originally Posted by MoBlack
umm manning isn't number 1 what has he done? he has one of the best wr's in the league and one of the best rb's and your saying he's all that. brady has won 2 super bowls with average at best qb's and below par running game. heck i'd take brady any day over manning. heck wait and see what he can do when he has a rb to take the pressure off of him. cheers.
So if Ryan Leaf went to the Colts and had Harrison and James we would be taking about him right now. All Manning has done is start and play in ever game of his career and re-written the record books with 5 straight season of 4000 yards or more passing. It is not his fault Manning's defense has had to play catch-up from day one.

Brady has the superior defense on his side, not all credit should be given to Brady when they win the superbowl. Against the Rams in the superbowl 3 years back, the Pats secondary tore up Kurt Warner.

Manning may have the better offensive supporting cast, but Brady has the better all-around supporting cast.
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Old 06-17-2004   #27
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Originally Posted by wags
I would also say that Brady has had a pretty good defense to help win those 2 super bowls. What help has Peyton had on defense?
The colts didn't lose the to the pats on defense they lost when they offense got exposed :hehe:
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Old 06-17-2004   #28
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Physically AJ is very impressive, but is he really that good?
Umm?--yeah he is. He was in the top ten rookie WR's ever despite being on a poor team, playing with hurt QB's or 2nd and 3rd string QB's last year--he is that good.

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put him with some average wr's and he's nothing.
Making a statement like this about Manning destroys any credibility to your argument. Manning is a fantastic QB, period--will he be worth the gigantic contract they gave him is another question.

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shoot look at payton manning all that arm and no mobility. what can he do if you put pressure on him.
Every team that played them last year put the best pressure they could on him--the answer is he put 4300 yds back. Vick's best year is 2900. Care for another argument?
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Old 06-17-2004   #29
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i think all you have to do is have a little patience and trust with your receiver. also, the only reason im not a big fan of manning, even though he is a great student of the game, is that he doesnt have the ability to buy more time. he tried it against the pats, and it didnt work too good...he is a pocket passer and when he starts on the run he doesnt have that kind of instinct i guess to be able to feel like field like others can. IMO -i hope that makes sense

and here i am talkin about him not scrambling when we pretty much lost the game because of a manning run.
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Old 06-17-2004   #30
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The colts didn't lose the to the pats on defense they lost when they offense got exposed :hehe:
It wasnt like the defense was much better that day, one of the corners for the colts got destroyed on a pump and go screen play. And early in the game it was 4th and 3 and the Pats went for it and got it. Also wasnt Manning's fault when Marvin Harrison fumbled the ball. And if memory serves correctly, 1 of the picks wasnt his fault.
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Old 06-17-2004   #31
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hey have you guys ever heard of another guy named DAn Marinoe?
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Old 06-17-2004   #32
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The colts didn't lose the to the pats on defense they lost when they offense got exposed :hehe:
Yes. Exactly. The Pats defense did plague Manning because they have such a good defense. The Pats defense totally outplayed the Colts D. Imagine if Peyton had a good D like the Pats have.
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Old 06-18-2004   #33
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I agree McNair is tough, but is he really the most talented in the NFL? He is a great leader and field general, but IMO, he isn't as talented as Farve, P. Manning, and some of the others, although he does have a unique skill set for a quaterback and a good track record.

how is manning a great QB he hasn't won a freaking championship. how the .... can you say he's better than mcnair when they share the mvp crown. gosh some of you guys are so biased on here. heck mcnair has been to the super bowl and lost bye what a yard!!!!!!!!!!!! manning hasn't even gotten to the super bowl cuase that passing attack was exposed!!!!
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Old 06-18-2004   #34
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Panther5407, make sure you provide a source for your copy and paste articles please. Since 279 has already posted it we are fine in this case but keep this in mind down the road.

Ibar, imo, Dom Davis is not one of the top 50 players in the NFL. He had a nice year for a late pick but most of the starting backs in the NFL could have done the same.

I did provide a source, its right under the #50 on the list. Did I not do it right?
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Old 06-18-2004   #35
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how is manning a great QB he hasn't won a freaking championship. !!!
I consider Dan Marino to be a pretty good QB and he never won a championship. Try telling number 13 he isn't great because he never won a championship.
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Old 06-18-2004   #36
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I consider Dan Marino to be a pretty good QB and he never won a championship. Try telling number 13 he isn't great because he never won a championship.

take brady over manning any day. people need to stop looking at last name and look at acomplishments. and what they do on the field.
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Old 06-18-2004   #37
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take brady over manning any day. people need to stop looking at last name and look at acomplishments. and what they do on the field.
Thank u thats all ive been trying to say
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Old 06-18-2004   #38
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Thank u thats all ive been trying to say
people are biased. hey didn't manning father never win a championship? family of talent but can't get over the hump.
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Old 06-18-2004   #39
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All I have to say is that if you think Manning isn't a HOL calibur QB, your not too astute. Brady is excellent, but is a system QB. He is in the perfect place for his talents. Both Mcnair and Manning would be successful anywhere imo. I would take Manning because of Mcnair's lack of durability, but it isn't as if one is pure gold, and the other tinfoil. When you make arguments like that, and mix in obvious racial bias, you're asking for people to simply ignore you as an ignorant fool. Gee, I think I will.
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Old 06-18-2004   #40
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Talk about biased MOBLACK.......you sound like you just flat out hate Manning. Barry Sanders never won a Super Bowl or even went to one for that matter so does that make Antoine Smith a better running back? You make it sound like you can't be a great football player if you've never been to the big game.
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