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Old 06-21-2011   #21
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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I agree with Frog we are so quick to dismiss these statements just because none of these players were ever Pro bowlers when they played here.
That list (of Texans Pro Bowlers) is unfortunately short. The rub with that is this....are the Texans where careers come to die? Are we the NFL equivalent of an ambassador posting?
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Old 06-21-2011   #22
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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That list (of Texans Pro Bowlers) is unfortunately short. The rub with that is this....are the Texans where careers come to die? Are we the NFL equivalent of an ambassador posting?
Does that mean we should just quickly dismiss anything and everything they spout out on a daily bases?
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Old 06-21-2011   #23
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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I agree with Frog we are so quick to dismiss these statements just because none of these players were not ever Pro bowlers when they played here.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not dismissing the statements. In fact, I believe where there is smoke there is ususally fire. I actually believe that these statements are true.

What I'm saying is that I don't think it has a huge affect on the outcome of games on any given Sunday.

When Schaub came here I don't even think he spent a lot of time talking to Smith. He spent his time with Kubiak at the Golf course.

Even though there has been this speculation about Smith, Schoebel still openly said he wanted to play for us. It never got worked out, but Smith being an ass didn't deter him from wanting to be a part of the organization. Dunta said he didn't mid coming back....Ahman Green decided to come here...

There have been opprotunities out there to make the team better. The Texans haven't capatalized.
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Old 06-21-2011   #24
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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Once again, you're making an assumption that I'm coming to bat for ANYONE. GM's deal with this garbage year-in/year-out. I think Bill Polian is an *********, but the Colts get it done on the field. He's a KNOWN ********* to the entire media. Here, LZ is trying to lump Smith into that same fray without the baggage folks like Polian have accrued. How about Jerry Jones (and son Steven), how about the Dolphins GM that asked a player if his mom was a prostitute? Find me stories like that about Rick Smith and I'll see the demon that's being portrayed, rather than a guy that 'jilted players' are upset about.

Do I think he's a good/great GM? Not by a long shot. Do I think he could be adequate? Certainly.
I'm not making an assumption, your statements say it all. You claim you aren't defending or coming to bat for him but then you go on to say that other guys are worse and you have yet to see him being a bad guy. That is coming to bat for him compared to others. Doesn't mean you like Smith in general. This is the Texans. A losing franchise. What do any of these players get out of saying stuff about Smith? Green was considered a consummate professional in GB before coming here. Coleman isn't even in the league and is just restating what he is hearing from other players. Scheobel was considered one of the good guys out there and a local guy. Smoke and fire to me. That is all I'm saying. This type stuff has been talked about for 3 years now and is only coming to light because of Green's comments. I think people need to separate the idea of Smith the ahole and Smith the dishonest guy. One doesn't make a difference if he is doing a good job, the other can come back and bite you when dealing with players at anytime.
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Old 06-21-2011   #25
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

I agree with dissack the player testimony is pretty thin. But that has been pretty well hashed out.

For consideration though is that Smith was named to the Competition Committee. Evidently he gets along well enough at times to get that appointment which is regarded as a plum.
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Old 06-21-2011   #26
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

How often do players deal with the GM? Pretty much during contract negotiations? Even at that, the players' agent is the one doing most of the wheeling and dealing. Agents can be your friends or enemies. They can spread rumors, they can spin things to their clients (the free agent you want), they can lead their clients to teams that "may pay better" or "easier to get a deal done". Personally if I'm the owner, I want my GM to be a hard ass. He's the one that's running the show like a business. I love "players coaches" but my GM is a business man. With that said, there's a very fine line and you don't want to turn off potential free agents in the future due to a reputation of playing hardball or overly tough negotiator.
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Old 06-21-2011   #27
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

How much affects does these alleged conflicts actually have on the games? No one knows. But it is still not good.
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Old 06-21-2011   #28
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

Sigh. And around and 'round we go...

1) Schoebel never wanted to play. He was done with football. He showed up fat.

2) Dunta wanted to go to another team. We offered him WAAAAAY above his fair price. He said no, THEN, when the fans turned on him, he tried to turn himself into a victim. Nope. Not buying it.

3) Most GM's are hard-asses.


4) I was in Smith's corner up until this past season. Sorry, but there has to be come accountability with BOTH the GM AND the Head Coach.


5) If Kubiak is fired after next season, he will never, ever, ever be a head coach again. Ever. His record is too out there for inspection. Had McNair fired him a couple of years ago instead of extended him, then, sure, he could have eased his way into a head coaching gig. But, if he fails next year, that will be six years with no playoff run. That's blatant and inexcusable and hard to ignore. He will never live that down.

6) To DaleMurphy, who says that Smith and Kubiak always learn from their mistakes, I will say this: 6-10.
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Old 06-21-2011   #29
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

Hopefully the football season will begin very soon and this debate will then end.
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Old 06-21-2011   #30
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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Does that mean we should just quickly dismiss anything and everything they spout out on a daily bases?
How do we dissect and analyze the vast volume of a man's everyday life?

The things he says. The things he makes faces at. If he's grumpy some of the day, or all of the day, or is always happy all the time. What if he's JUST a turd to people he senses are being turds to him? To address a recurring theme in this thread thus far: It's possible that Richard Justice is the world's biggest turd himself, and so I can't really base my opinion on Rick Smith just by whether RJ gets along with him well or not. I've never seen Rick Smith make an ass of himself in public (such as in a written column or radio or TV appearance) the way RJ has...so the score for me is like Rick 0 and RJ 1,235.

We're to believe that none of these ex-players brought any hardships upon themselves? What if Ahman had told several fellow players about how he wasn't really THAT hurt (or they sensed it or overheard it from him sometime) and one or more of those players got fed up with it and tattled on him to a coach and then the coach told the GM and the GM confronted him on it? There could be lots we don't know about; lots that a stellar man such as Ahman Green (old Loose Lips himself) might be failing to include in his gossip session with his audience.

I speculate all the time around here, and there's one person who always reminds me that it's just not possible to know--with utmost certainty--what goes on inside the Texans main offices and with people like Rick Smith and how everything is truly handled each day, or weekly, or within the scope of a whole year.

I wish that person would take a moment to inform some of you guys that you're doing the same thing I get my ass scolded for all the time around here.

I must be in the Twilight Zone because I'm usually all about taking the chance to rag on Smithiak, but I guess with this owner-imposed lockout it's made me just tune out what those guys are or aren't doing right...and my ire is raised against the owner. Not only am I looking at misery if an owner like McNair signs off on continuing the lockout, but I am probably looking at misery if there is a season and McNair continues to cry and pat players' backs when they lose overtime games because it's a sign of how far we've come as a team.

Either way, I'm a paper bag, some horse crap, a cigarette lighter, and a doorstep at midnight away from showing Bob McNair how much I believe in his "right track" state of mind. LOL.
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Old 06-21-2011   #31
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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How do we dissect and analyze the vast volume of a man's everyday life?

The things he says. The things he makes faces at. If he's grumpy some of the day, or all of the day, or is always happy all the time. What if he's JUST a turd to people he senses are being turds to him? To address a recurring theme in this thread thus far: It's possible that Richard Justice is the world's biggest turd himself, and so I can't really base my opinion on Rick Smith just by whether RJ gets along with him well or not. I've never seen Rick Smith make an ass of himself in public (such as in a written column or radio or TV appearance) the way RJ has...so the score for me is like Rick 0 and RJ 1,235.

We're to believe that none of these ex-players brought any hardships upon themselves? What if Ahman had told several fellow players about how he wasn't really THAT hurt (or they sensed it or overheard it from him sometime) and one or more of those players got fed up with it and tattled on him to a coach and then the coach told the GM and the GM confronted him on it? There could be lots we don't know about; lots that a stellar man such as Ahman Green (old Loose Lips himself) might be failing to include in his gossip session with his audience.

I speculate all the time around here, and there's one person who always reminds me that it's just not possible to know--with utmost certainty--what goes on inside the Texans main offices and with people like Rick Smith and how everything is truly handled each day, or weekly, or within the scope of a whole year.

I wish that person would take a moment to inform some of you guys that you're doing the same thing I get my ass scolded for all the time around here.

I must be in the Twilight Zone because I'm usually all about taking the chance to rag on Smithiak, but I guess with this owner-imposed lockout it's made me just tune out what those guys are or aren't doing right...and my ire is raised against the owner. Not only am I looking at misery if an owner like McNair signs off on continuing the lockout, but I am probably looking at misery if there is a season and McNair continues to cry and pat players' backs when they lose overtime games because it's a sign of how far we've come as a team.

Either way, I'm a paper bag, some horse crap, a cigarette lighter, and a doorstep at midnight away from showing Bob McNair how much I believe in his "right track" state of mind. LOL.
I don't know how you came up with this based on my post. I am looking at it from one prospective and you are looking at it from another when honestly no one here will ever know for sure.
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Old 06-21-2011   #32
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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I don't know how you came up with this based on my post. I am looking at it from one prospective and you are looking at it from another when honestly no one here will ever know for sure.
You're offering up one-sentence posts and leaving it up to interpretation, gary.

Plus, you'll side with one idea today and then you'll come back tomorrow and post something that says you're now thinking differently.

I'm fine with that, I really am. We can change our minds 125 times if we want to. But if you say you think what ex-players "think" about Rick Smith is very important and has an impact on the Texans, then I have to say that I disagree with that.

None of us know what baggage Carr/Robinson/Green brought to the table. All we hear from them is how BAD old Rick Smith is and how their lives were ruined by him to some degree. I never hear Rick Smith coming onto a telecast and sharing gossip about Carr-Robinson-Green.

From that standpoint, I at least have to give credit to Bob, Kubiak, and Smith for at least refusing to trade shots with those poor, victimized disgruntled ex-players who would have been bound for glory had it not been for the dastardly Rick Smith standing in their way.

I guess I just hate the whole "victimization" angle that I see being portrayed here. They're all adults, for crying out loud. Big boys. And yet they're acting like children who had their candy stolen from them.
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Old 06-21-2011   #33
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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You're offering up one-sentence posts and leaving it up to interpretation, gary.

Plus, you'll side with one idea today and then you'll come back tomorrow and post something that says you're now thinking differently.

I'm fine with that, I really am. We can change our minds 125 times if we want to. But if you say you think what ex-players "think" about Rick Smith is very important and has an impact on the Texans, then I have to say that I disagree with that.

None of us know what baggage Carr/Robinson/Green brought to the table. All we hear from them is how BAD old Rick Smith is and how their lives were ruined by him to some degree. I never hear Rick Smith coming onto a telecast and sharing gossip about Carr-Robinson-Green.

From that standpoint, I at least have to give credit to Bob, Kubiak, and Smith for at least refusing to trade shots with those poor, victimized disgruntled ex-players who would have been bound for glory had it not been for the dastardly Rick Smith standing in their way.

I guess I just hate the whole "victimization" angle that I see being portrayed here. They're all adults, for crying out loud. Big boys. And yet they're acting like children who had their candy stolen from them.
I might be offering up one you're taking my posts and running with them. I won't change my opinion unless I know all of the facts nor do you and we never will. Does it make me a baby to go on the radio or an article to talk about someone or a law I don't like? I thought I reserve the right to do so please inform me otherwise.
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Old 06-21-2011   #34
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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I might be offering up one you're taking my posts and running with them. I won't change my opinion unless I know all of the facts nor do you and we never will. Does it make me a baby to go on the radio or an article to talk about someone or a law I don't like? I thought I reserve the right to do so please inform me otherwise.
Don't do this, please.

You say it's bad for the Texans. I see lots of Texans (53 of them every year) and some on the practice squad, and the guys we sign off the street when we need to, and none of them have refused the paycheck and opportunity just because Rick Smith wasn't taking them out for ice cream and miniature golf on the weekends.

This whole thing is just getting absurd, IMO. I'm supposed to care about a few bench warmers and one overpaid CB for the Falcons and how they say Rick Smith is single-handedly ruining the Texans because he's not nice to people.

I disagreed with you before, and I still do now.

Argue the topic, please. I've made my case as best I can. And I see no way that the Texans are bad because Rick Smith is somehow driving players away from this team. This sucky team is a product of bad football tactics and a slowness to change direction, not bad interpersonal communication skills.

I wonder what this team would have looked like had we not had the extra Carr season, and had we fired Richard Smith after only one year of his pathetic defense that Frank Bush gleefully came along and tried to re-package as a new one. THAT is what has hurt us, not Rick Smith being a cranky person to get along with.
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Old 06-21-2011   #35
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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Don't do this, please.

You say it's bad for the Texans. I see lots of Texans (53 of them every year) and some on the practice squad, and the guys we sign off the street when we need to, and none of them have refused the paycheck and opportunity just because Rick Smith wasn't taking them out for ice cream and miniature golf on the weekends.

This whole thing is just getting absurd, IMO. I'm supposed to care about a few bench warmers and one overpaid CB for the Falcons and how they say Rick Smith is single-handedly ruining the Texans because he's not nice to people.

I disagreed with you before, and I still do now.

Argue the topic, please. I've made my case as best I can. And I see no way that the Texans are bad because Rick Smith is somehow driving players away from this team. This sucky team is a product of bad football tactics and a slowness to change direction, not bad interpersonal communication skills.

I wonder what this team would have looked like had we not had the extra Carr season, and had we fired Richard Smith after only one year of his pathetic defense that Frank Bush gleefully came along and tried to re-package as a new one. THAT is what has hurt us, not Rick Smith being a cranky person to get along with.
Have you ever worked for Smith? Keep on with your chapter books on here. NOBODY KNOWS HOW DEEP THE PROBLEMS RUN FOR THE TEXANS. Got it? Andre Johnson has never bashed the front office here but if you ever had dinner with him in his house and he quietly started to open up to you about front office issues I don't know about you but I'd be all ears because AJ is normally plight and low keyed so something must have really gotten his goat.
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Old 06-21-2011   #36
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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Have you ever worked for Smith? Keep on with your chapter books on here. NOBODY KNOWS HOW DEEP THE PROBLEMS RUN FOR THE TEXANS. Got it? Andre Johnson has never bashed the front office here but if you ever had dinner with him in his house and he quietly started to open up to you about front office issues I don't know about you but I'd be all ears because AJ is normally plight and low keyed so something must have really gotten his goat.
You're looking for things that might not even exist. Period.

And how long I type is not the issue here. Save it for a private message if you want to make fun of me. I won't make fun of you on here, but you go right ahead if you want to try and get over with some people with that sort of talk.

AJ might open up to me? Why? I bet he's pretty happy with his situation when he sees me in my Kohl's clothes and knows I wake up every day without getting the chance to do what he can do. He's a rare guy because he's not only great talent, but it seems he also knows it's a business. Not a charity.

I guess we just live in a sensationalized culture where we just don't really know the whole story until one day when we find out how bad Rick Smith's attitude has cost the Texans every Sunday.

I don't think there's any bombshells in terms of BIG NEWS that will blow the lid off the Rick Smith era. He and Kubiak are doing just fine with their inability to out-maneuver opponents...they don't have to worry about whether their inability to be nice guys to every player 24 hours-a-day is impacting how many free agents we have missed out on.

Looking for an axe to grind? Start with the guy who hired them and keeps them.
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Old 06-21-2011   #37
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
You're looking for things that might not even exist. Period.

And how long I type is not the issue here. Save it for a private message if you want to make fun of me. I won't make fun of you on here, but you go right ahead if you want to try and get over with some people with that sort of talk.

AJ might open up to me? Why? I bet he's pretty happy with his situation when he sees me in my Kohl's clothes and knows I wake up every day without getting the chance to do what he can do. He's a rare guy because he's not only great talent, but it seems he also knows it's a business. Not a charity.

I guess we just live in a sensationalized culture where we just don't really know the whole story until one day when we find out how bad Rick Smith's attitude has cost the Texans every Sunday.

I don't think there's any bombshells in terms of BIG NEWS that will blow the lid off the Rick Smith era. He and Kubiak are doing just fine with their inability to out-maneuver opponents...they don't have to worry about whether their inability to be nice guys to every player 24 hours-a-day is impacting how many free agents we have missed out on.

Looking for an axe to grind? Start with the guy who hired them and keeps them.
I used an example with AJ and now you want to know why he would open up too you it was just an example not real man.. You're right none of this might exist but you nor I know enough to know who is right or wrong.
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Old 06-21-2011   #38
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
How often do players deal with the GM? Pretty much during contract negotiations? Even at that, the players' agent is the one doing most of the wheeling and dealing. Agents can be your friends or enemies. They can spread rumors, they can spin things to their clients (the free agent you want), they can lead their clients to teams that "may pay better" or "easier to get a deal done". Personally if I'm the owner, I want my GM to be a hard ass. He's the one that's running the show like a business. I love "players coaches" but my GM is a business man. With that said, there's a very fine line and you don't want to turn off potential free agents in the future due to a reputation of playing hardball or overly tough negotiator.
Especially if you are not a winning franchise.
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Old 06-21-2011   #39
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
I don't blame the Texans or Rick Smith on what happened with Schobel. From all the reports I read, it seemed like Schobel was out of shape and didn't have the drive to play a full season really. The Texans did have talks with him, but when it never happened I wasn't surprised. The guy just didn't seem to have his heart in it anymore and had we signed him we probably would have vastly over paid for his services.
This is my opinion also. It is up to McNair to step up and say sign Nnamdi A. I'll write the check. I am not real pleased with Smith or Kubiak but Schoebel not on them
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Old 06-21-2011   #40
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Default Re: [LZ] Unsolicited damage control for Rick Smith

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Originally Posted by gary View Post
I used an example with AJ and now you want to know why he would open up too you it was just an example not real man.. You're right none of this might exist but you nor I know enough to know who is right or wrong.
So if neither of us know for sure, why would we just 100% believe what a few ex-players try to say (especially when it comes off as them just being mad about being fired from playing for the Texans)?

I'd be pissed off, too, if a sorry excuse for a team (The Texans) cut me or wanted me gone. It hits at a man's pride when you think you're being booted from a place that you think should be glad to have you.

Some people choose to not try and paint their former employer as being evil and worthless. I was fired from a very prominent organization right out of college (it was my first job after college). For awhile, all I could do was talk bad about them and say how wrong they were, and blah blah blah. After several years, I just realized that really I wasn't a good fit in that place. A lot of people are, but I was not. So be it. Today, I talk very neutral about that organization--I limit by hate speech when someone asks me about what it was like to work there.

I just think it's wisdom to move on from a place you were fired from, and to not let it get so under your skin that you can only gripe to everybody about how "bad" it is to have worked there. To me, Ahman Green did more harm to his character than he did to Rick Smith's. That's the last of what I want to post on this topic. I think everyone knows how we all feel, even if our opinions are different. I respect your position.
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