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Old 04-20-2005   #261
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Originally Posted by D-ReK
Glenn is too small to be a good FS...I realize Jason Simmons is the same size, but he is built sturdier than Glenn...With that said, I think that anything is possible with this team, and I will leave the door open to that idea...I think we could have Glenn at FS and Coleman at SS and play it like the Patriots do, where they don't use a traditional "free safety" and "strong safety", they view them as "left safety" and "right safety", both of them being FS types that can hit...
That's all I'm asking, is that we consider the possibility of it happening. With that kind of speed & cover ability, how much would it help our front 7? It should definitely give them more time to get to the QB.
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Old 04-20-2005   #262
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So then, the question arises, would he want to play FS, keep his current contract, & get to continue playing in Houston, or would he rather move to another city & play for less, just to continue playing the CB position? Only he can make that decision.
Glenn has already made that decision. I read an article quoting Glenn as saying he would not play FS. He did say he would happily be the CB who comes in with the nickle package, though. I personally don't think Glenn wants to play a position with such an emphasis on hitting.
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Old 04-20-2005   #263
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As good a player as Glenn has been for us.. I dont think we will have any problem with letting him finish his career as a CB with us.
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Old 04-20-2005   #264
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the most disappointing thing about the trade with oakland is that we aren't trading with the Redskins. They gave Denver #75 this year and a 1st and a 4th next year for #25 overall this year. On top of that, everyone knows they want Jason Campbell. To get Campbell all anyone need do is to jump in front of Washington's 25th pick. And, by the way, they have 4 days to figure out how to do it.
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Old 04-20-2005   #265
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Default Just an observation.

I'm not going to flame anyone here, I'd just like to point a couple of things out about the Buchanon trade.

#1 People seem to think the addition of PBuch is going to help them stop Peyton Manning and the colts. While on the surface that would seem to be the case, the actual facts do not bear that out. Who held that offense down last year? The Jaguars twice and the Patriots twice are the examples that leap into my mind. Now I ask you which of those two teams had a better pair of corners than Drob and Glenn last year? Neither one. They won because they pressured Peyton up the middle and schemed well. You can have 15 shut down corners on your roster, but if you don't get pressure and get Peyton mixed up schematically it is not going to matter.

#2 Much like the Babin trade last year I am not saying you got an awful player. Buchanon may not have played up to his ability yet, but he's supremely talented and he's young and cheap. The problem I had with both deals is what you gave up. At this point Buchanon was clearly on the trade block, and you not only gave up a second and a third, you gave up a relatively high second and third. No matter how you spin it, even if he turns into Deion you overpayed. It's just like the Giants last year with Manning. Unless Eli turns into John Elway II they gave up two high firsts and a fourth and fifth for one player, when they could have stayed put and gotten Rivers or Big Ben and still had those other 3 picks to work with. It just makes no sense. This trade is indefensible.

I can understand a sense of homerism(many of my brethren think the Titans will go 10-6 this year) but at some point you just have to say enough is enough. Casserly has done a piss poor job the last two or three years. Has he added a few good players? Of course, but even the Cardinals and Bengals added a few good players throughout the 90s. The point is that he has not added those players in an even remotely efficient fashion. You traded the entire meat and potatoes of your draft last year for Jason Babin, to a division rival who desperately needed those picks to rebuild no less. Then you vastly overpay for Buchanon, when if you don't improve your pass rush all the corners in the world won't matter. I like the acquisitions, I just don't like what you paid for them. How are you guys not screaming for Casserly's head? I just don't get it.

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Old 04-20-2005   #266
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No matter how you spin it, even if he turns into Deion you overpayed.
And all credibility goes flying straight out the window.

They gave up one net player to get a 1st round talent at an extremely cap friendly price. Seems pretty easy to defend.

Got to love comments on overpaying coming from a fan of a team with $28 mil in deadspace on their cap this year.
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Old 04-20-2005   #267
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No matter how you spin it, even if he turns into Deion you overpayed.
That comment alone merits some form of ridiclule. I'll leave that part to a future poster....
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Old 04-20-2005   #268
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hey dale, just wanted to link ya to this thread of mine in the draft forum (and anyone else interested in the possibility of a P.Buch to skins trade)

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zon...ead.php?t=8258
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Old 04-20-2005   #269
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Don't be a doofus :P I'm saying that even if you get lucky and he turns into Dieon for what he has done up to now and what his portfolio looks like you got robbed. For example....

Lets say Saturday our GM Floyd Reese decides he needs the 203rd pick in the draft, because he has a funny feeling some guy at that spot is going to be great. So he trades our next four first rounders for that pick. Now even if whoever he took at 203 somehow magically turns into the best player ever, he still massively overpayed for that 203rd overall pick. Giving up 4 first rounders for the 203rd pick is unjustifiable, no matter how it turns out. It's like poker. You can go all in with whatever you want, but if you go all in with 2/7 offsuit and happen to make a hand and win, that doesn't make it the correct play, it just makes you a lucky SOB. Capische?
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Old 04-20-2005   #270
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we traded our 2nd rounder and a 6th rounder for a 25 year old former first round selection.. and moved up in the third.

and you want to compare that to trading 4 firsts for the 203rd pick?

(just in case ya cant figure that logic. We got Henson for a 6th rounder.. we turned that into a 3rd rounder. We traded our 2nd and OUR 3rd, and kept the Cowboys 3rd.. therefore.. we traded a 2nd and 6th, and moved up in the 3rd)
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Old 04-20-2005   #271
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1) When you can trust your corners in man coverage, you can scheme all sorts of ways to get pressure on the QB. That's what Capers did with the Steelers; that's what he will do with the Texans. This team is about to unleash that big playbook of blitzes. With Peek on the field, Babin (the first rookie OLB to start in a Capers defense) in his second season, speedy ILBs who can cover, and the draft just days away (a chance to had to the DL or OLB spots), we may see that pressure yet.

2) How can we say they overpaid when we don't know what the market for Buchannon was? It's weird how many message board posts there are about "overpaid" this and "value" that as if we know the real market values. Before anyone says it, I know all this prognistication is in essence subjective; everybody has an opionion. But what about basing our criticisms and analysis on evidence?

No one is calling for Casserly's head because no GM hits on 100% of his moves and Casserly has a good track record. Compare Casserly to his colleagues.

I personally think that putting two picks into one guy you "know" will pan out is better than wasting picks on that less than 50% chance that any one of two guys will. That's just me; I value quality over quantity.
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Old 04-20-2005   #272
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So because you made one good deal(Henson) and got a third round pick you can afford to throw that pick away? Because you got the pick by making another team make a bad deal that somehow excuses you making a bad deal yourselves? No it does not. That pick is #78 overall, it doesn't matter how you got it. That would be like us trading Randy Starks for two bottles of Zima and a subscription to Maxim just because you let us rip you off and draft him. Or buying a Babe Ruth rookie card for two bucks at a flea market and then selling it for five bucks because "it was cheap, and we turned a profit!" That still doesn't make it the most effective use of the resources at hand. Get serious.
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Old 04-20-2005   #273
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They are getting a #17 overall player for the #47 & #78 picks. Look it up on the trade chart and you will see that is a steal. Quite the opposite of your little 203rd pick for 4 1st rounders example. Plus, the value to the Texans is further enhanced because now the Raiders are stuck with all of Buchanon's signing bonus on their cap whereas the Texans only have to account for his salaries. I'll trust Jon Hoke's opinion on DB's more than yours (especially after the Deion comment) no offense.

I agree on the Henson deal though. They gave up a 3rd round pick--doesn't matter how they got it.
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Old 04-20-2005   #274
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Default Why do we want Buchannon??

Seems to me he has a huge ego and is a big headcase. Who gives themselves their own nickname and talks about themselves in third person. He just seems like one of those *****s that will never be happy anywhere.

He seem like Kobe Bryant, thinks he is better than he really is, I hope I am wrong, but I just think we could have gotten better guys with our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

Jimmie Johnson once said dynasties are built in the second and third rounds.
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Old 04-20-2005   #275
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Our second and third rounds this year will end up with Phillip Buchannon and someone else. We shall see. We are going to end up with 3 players in this 3 round first day draft on Saturday, and we already know one of them.
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Old 04-20-2005   #276
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To be of that opinion Titanic, i would have to think that Buchanon is only worth 5 bucks, or two bottles of Zima and a subscription to Maxim (which, btw.. is a very nice analogy to come up with off the top of your head).

I think that Buchanon is worth the 2nd and extra 3rd. So, to me.. it would be like trading Starks for Casey Hampton, or paying 5000 bucks for a Babe Ruth rookie card and selling it for 20,000 (sorry if that seems low.. im not well educated in the worth of baseball cards).
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Old 04-20-2005   #277
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Once again you're using faulty logic. Just because he was drafted 17th overall that does not make him worth any more or less now. Akili Smith was drafting 3rd overall. So was Andre Wadworth. Curtis Enis was fifth. All of them were drafting highly, with high expectations, and were busts, as was Buchanon. At this point he is not the gamechanging ballhawking corner from Miami, he is a 3 year veteran who has been erratic and had made it very clear he wasn't going to play in Oakland this year. Yet somehow Al Davis turned a player he essentially had to trade, who had yet to even remotely live up to his hype, into a 2nd and third round pick. That is absurd. If you had gotten him for a third and a fourth, or even two thirds I would be saying what a good deal it is. But you gave up a second in the draft. Wait until Saturday and look at the players on the board when that pick comes up, then come back here and tell me how great this deal was.

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Old 04-20-2005   #278
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That is absurd. If you had gotten him for a third and a fourth, or even two thirds I would be saying what a good deal it is.
No, the idea that players are bar-coded and their value is so well defined as to make the difference between a 2nd and a 3rd and two 3rds the difference between an absurd trade and a good deal is what is truly absurd.
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Old 04-20-2005   #279
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this is a pointless debate. As long as you feel that Buchanan is a bust, and I(or we) feel that he can prosper in our system.. there is no way for either of us to convince the other that they are wrong.

We are just going to have to wait and see how he plays.
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Old 04-20-2005   #280
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Wait until Saturday and look at the players on the board when that pick comes up, then come back here and tell me how great this deal was.
The players that are available at 47 are inconsequential since none of them will be proven playmakers...While, for whatever reason, consistency is an issue with Buchanon, you can't argue the fact that he is a game-breaker...If you even try to argue that, there are 7 defensive or special teams touchdowns, all but one of which being in a win, that can do all of my debating for me...
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