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Old 05-23-2011   #41
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

I don't see the Texans letting Mario go. I seriously doubt Barwin or Reed outshine him as they will be competing for the same spot and it looks as if they will be playing completely different roles than Mario.

What I am gathering is that Mario is essentially having a position created for him to best utilize his talents.

I think that it would have to be an exceptional situation for a guy who has never played 3-4 OLB full time and coming off injury, a rookie who has never played 3-4 OLB full-time, and another very promising rookie to come in and outshine Mario.

That seems like a huge reach.

I think that the factors against Moving Mario are too great...Seems more like a fairytale to me...

And even if all those guys did come in and perform at pro-bowl like levels, you're going to essentially trade a vet that has proven that he is a top tier player for guys who have had one year of success?

Not a fan.
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Old 05-23-2011   #42
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

The thing is there are holes to fix. How much of that is bad coaching or just lacking good players? I don't know but I have a hunch that with the same group plus a marque free agent or two then this team might be ready to make a run with a coach and a GM not named Kubiak.
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Old 05-23-2011   #43
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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I don't see the Texans letting Mario go. I seriously doubt Barwin or Reed outshine him as they will be competing for the same spot and it looks as if they will be playing completely different roles than Mario.

What I am gathering is that Mario is essentially having a position created for him to best utilize his talents.

I think that it would have to be an exceptional situation for a guy who has never played 3-4 OLB full time and coming off injury, a rookie who has never played 3-4 OLB full-time, and another very promising rookie to come in and outshine Mario.

That seems like a huge reach.

Who was talking about Barwin or Reed outshining Mario?


If Mario doesn't come in and become one of the best at his "new position", I doubt the Texans make him one of the highest paid players in the league, when another team would be willing to do that in a 4-3 defense. Mario has to prove himself all over again at his new position.
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Old 05-23-2011   #44
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Who was talking about Barwin or Reed outshining Mario?


If Mario doesn't come in and become one of the best at his "new position", I doubt the Texans make him one of the highest paid players in the league, when another team would be willing to do that in a 4-3 defense. Mario has to prove himself all over again at his new position.
Well...

When folks start talking about Mario coming in and "not being one of the best at his new position" and Barwin, Reed and Watt playing well enough that the organization deems Mario replaceable I thinks it's only natural to think that the discussion is gearing towards Barwin/Reed/Watt outshining him.

Plus I saw it mentioned somewhere in this thread. Someone was talking about it.

And no, Mario does not have to prove himself all over again IMO. He has been one of the best 4-3 defensive ends. The Texans brain trust/Wade Phillips has decided to change his position. If anyone needs to prove themselves, it's the Texans organization.

That said, it's entirely possible that one of those guys comes in and plays at a level near or above Mario. I wouldn't say that it's likely though. All of those guys playing well enough that we decide to move him? I don't see that happening.

But back to the main topic...I seriously doubt that Mario will be moved anytime in the foreseeable future barring serious injury for many reason. The level of play of others around him is just one reason.
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Old 05-23-2011   #45
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Well...

When folks start talking about Mario coming in and "not being one of the best at his new position" and Barwin, Reed and Watt playing well enough that the organization deems Mario replaceable I thinks it's only natural to think that the discussion is gearing towards Barwin/Reed/Watt outshining him.

Plus I saw it mentioned somewhere in this thread. Someone was talking about it.

And no, Mario does not have to prove himself all over again IMO. He has been one of the best 4-3 defensive ends. The Texans brain trust/Wade Phillips has decided to change his position. If anyone needs to prove themselves, it's the Texans organization.

That said, it's entirely possible that one of those guys comes in and plays at a level near or above Mario. I wouldn't say that it's likely though. All of those guys playing well enough that we decide to move him? I don't see that happening.

But back to the main topic...I seriously doubt that Mario will be moved anytime in the foreseeable future barring serious injury for many reason. The level of play of others around him is just one reason.
Right, then you are just left with a bunch of unproven DE's.
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Old 05-24-2011   #46
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I don't see the Texans letting Mario go. I seriously doubt Barwin or Reed outshine him as they will be competing for the same spot and it looks as if they will be playing completely different roles than Mario.

What I am gathering is that Mario is essentially having a position created for him to best utilize his talents.

I think that it would have to be an exceptional situation for a guy who has never played 3-4 OLB full time and coming off injury, a rookie who has never played 3-4 OLB full-time, and another very promising rookie to come in and outshine Mario.

That seems like a huge reach.

I think that the factors against Moving Mario are too great...Seems more like a fairytale to me...

And even if all those guys did come in and perform at pro-bowl like levels, you're going to essentially trade a vet that has proven that he is a top tier player for guys who have had one year of success?

Not a fan.
So in 2012, there is no way you can see Barwin and Reed at the OLBs and Ryans & Cushing in the ILBs? If that's the case and Mario does not work out as OLB, who will be the right OLB? Hopefully, Wade gave that some thought.
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Old 05-24-2011   #47
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Who was talking about Barwin or Reed outshining Mario?


If Mario doesn't come in and become one of the best at his "new position", I doubt the Texans make him one of the highest paid players in the league, when another team would be willing to do that in a 4-3 defense. Mario has to prove himself all over again at his new position.
Exactly!
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Old 05-24-2011   #48
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Right, then you are just left with a bunch of unproven DE's.
Smith is a proven DE and I expect his productivity to go up in new system. Yes, Watt is unproven in NFL but so are the other 224 + draftees. If Mario is hugely successful as Wade hopes as an OLB, we would have the same proven DEs as if he were not on team, right?
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Old 05-24-2011   #49
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So in 2012, there is no way you can see Barwin and Reed at the OLBs and Ryans & Cushing in the ILBs? If that's the case and Mario does not work out as OLB, who will be the right OLB? Hopefully, Wade gave that some thought.
Barwin and reed won't have the same role in the defense as Mario. I don't even think both will get enough snaps to prove that they are both worthy starters.

Also I think it's way more likely barwin or reed prove that they aren't all they're cut out to be vs Mario doing so.

And again, if this move doesn't work it will be a knock against wade. Mario had pretty much solidified himself as a top tier player at de in the NFL.

It'd almost be like a proven o coordinator coming in and trying to move Andre to running back.

So far with no free agency it looks like a lot of youth and inexperience will be on the field. I'm far more concerned about almost every other defensive position and not so much about marios transition to wades 52 esque defense.
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Old 05-24-2011   #50
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Smith is a proven DE and I expect his productivity to go up in new system. Yes, Watt is unproven in NFL but so are the other 224 + draftees. If Mario is hugely successful as Wade hopes as an OLB, we would have the same proven DEs as if he were not on team, right?
Why do you expect smith to be successful but not Mario?
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Old 05-24-2011   #51
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

Here's a question about Marios role in Wades 3-4/5-2 defense ?
Recently I got my hands on a copy of the Texans/Cowboys game from last year which I'd not seen before, and watched it with primary focus on
Demarcas Ware, who of course played the position for Phillips in Dallas that
Mario is going to play for him in Houston.
OK, so Ware is rushing the QB from the 3-point stance often, maybe 40% of the time vs standing upright and rushing from the traditional LB stance.
What is Ware keying on re his decision to be upright or hand-in-the-dirt, or is there no specific key and it's based strictly on his personal preference, or instinctive reaction at snap-time ?
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Old 05-24-2011   #52
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Barwin and reed won't have the same role in the defense as Mario. I don't even think both will get enough snaps to prove that they are both worthy starters.

Also I think it's way more likely barwin or reed prove that they aren't all they're cut out to be vs Mario doing so.

And again, if this move doesn't work it will be a knock against wade. Mario had pretty much solidified himself as a top tier player at de in the NFL.

It'd almost be like a proven o coordinator coming in and trying to move Andre to running back.

So far with no free agency it looks like a lot of youth and inexperience will be on the field. I'm far more concerned about almost every other defensive position and not so much about marios transition to wades 52 esque defense.
What does bolded above mean? I thought the purpose of both OLBs in this defense was to disrupt the QB? Sure, Barwin or Reed will sometimes fall back into coverage but everything I've seen from Wade is the front 7 will go after QB. Phillips said recently that in the 5-2 there will be the 3 linemen and OLBs especially Mario will be just off line of scrimage.
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Old 05-24-2011   #53
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Why do you expect smith to be successful but not Mario?
I do not recall saying I expect Mario to be unsuccessful. I am concerned as many others are that he will not transition to OLB. I am wanting him to get about 15 sacks and several more disruptions. It will then be up to Smithiak & McNair to open the bank for him and they might. I prefer a trade after this season if the right offer is made. We have the money now to sign to sign Asomugha and if Mario is trade for picks, we can use that money in the next off season in free agency to strengthen another position or two.
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Old 05-24-2011   #54
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

I'm not a hater, hopefully MW tears it up and the Texans make the playoffs. He's going to have to stay healthy (a big if) and prove his worth on the field.

However if MW just has an avg yr and the Texans miss the playoffs again, there are no sacred cows including MW. With a new incoming regime.

The Chiefs rebuilt their team into a playoff team. (unlike the Texans) How did they do it ? They traded their best DE Allen for a 1st and 3 3rds. I wouldn't want Rick and Gary doing this with their track record in the war room. But if a proven regime was hired to replace Rick and Gary and they thought trading MW was the way to get better quickly I could get on board with trading MW.
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Old 05-24-2011   #55
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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I'm not a hater, hopefully MW tears it up and the Texans make the playoffs. He's going to have to stay healthy (a big if) and prove his worth on the field.

However if MW just has an avg yr and the Texans miss the playoffs again, there are no sacred cows including MW. With a new incoming regime.

The Chiefs rebuilt their team into a playoff team. (unlike the Texans) How did they do it ? They traded their best DE Allen for a 1st and 3 3rds. I wouldn't want Rick and Gary doing this with their track record in the war room. But if a proven regime was hired to replace Rick and Gary and they thought trading MW was the way to get better quickly I could get on board with trading MW.
This. Just one more chance for Mario to succeed here in Houston and earn a new deal. If not, then just tender and trade him to a 3-4 defense.
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Old 05-24-2011   #56
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Just one more chance...
gary, you may have just coined the slogan for the 2012 Texans.
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Old 05-24-2011   #57
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gary, you may have just coined the slogan for the 2012 Texans.
Hopefully for this year.
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Old 05-24-2011   #58
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Here's a question about Marios role in Wades 3-4/5-2 defense ?
Recently I got my hands on a copy of the Texans/Cowboys game from last year which I'd not seen before, and watched it with primary focus on
Demarcas Ware, who of course played the position for Phillips in Dallas that
Mario is going to play for him in Houston.
OK, so Ware is rushing the QB from the 3-point stance often, maybe 40% of the time vs standing upright and rushing from the traditional LB stance.
What is Ware keying on re his decision to be upright or hand-in-the-dirt, or is there no specific key and it's based strictly on his personal preference, or instinctive reaction at snap-time ?
This is going to be among the questions/answers I'd like to present on a "hopeful" series about Wade's defense throughout the years, from the time he was with Bum and the Oilers.

The Cowboys game from last year gives some good perspective.

As far as Ware is concerned, you can go back and watch the plays in which he was in a 3-pt stance.
It would be a good discovery.

There are common themes.

Happy film studying!
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Old 05-26-2011   #59
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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As far as Ware is concerned, you can go back and watch the plays in which he was in a 3-pt stance.
It would be a good discovery.

There are common themes.

Happy film studying!
C'mon 76, quit treating me like a little freaken kid you just gave a homework assignment to, OK ? And besides I've already deleted the Texans-Cowboys game from my U-Verse hard drive, so I'm unable to view it again.
Just tell me what the hell Ware is keying on if anything when it comes to him playing upright vs 3-point ? I'm guessing is has to do with the presence of an H-back on any given play ?
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Old 05-26-2011   #60
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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C'mon 76, quit treating me like a little freaken kid you just gave a homework assignment to, OK ? And besides I've already deleted the Texans-Cowboys game from my U-Verse hard drive, so I'm unable to view it again.
Just tell me what the hell Ware is keying on if anything when it comes to him playing upright vs 3-point ? I'm guessing is has to do with the presence of an H-back on any given play ?
LOL, I don't mean to delay anything.
I just thought that you still have the game and can have some fun with it.
I'm about ready for the first installment on Wade's defense. I will start on it right after this.
I wish I have a whole lot more time than I can afford right now.

Let me go ahead and give you the situations:

Ware put his hand down in the dirt:

- 6 times in a 4-man front on third down.
- once as a DE in a 3-man front, also on third down.
- twice when the Texans were in empty shotgun spread (no RB)
- 3 times in goal-line situation (in a 5-man front)

And also when the Cowboys were in prevent defense in the 4th quarter with the Texans going strictly with a one-back spread offense:
- About 10 times in a 4-man front
- Twice as DE on a 3-man front.

So, if you only count this game, Ware played with his hand down 24 times thereabout (I think this is much more than most expected.)

Basically, as I've said before, 3-4 teams often switch to a 4-man front, usually in a nickel package (but not always) in passing situation, like on 2nd and 10 or longer and on 3rd down (it can be third and 3 and not necessarily third and long, but the further the distance the offense needs, the more likely you will see a 4-man line.)

In short yardage situation, you will see a 4-man line from time to time as well (or a 5-man line in goal-line situation).

Against the spread offense, with no RB or one back, you can also find the nickel package and the 4-man line quite often (most of the time, but not always.)

This is not exclusively with Wade's defense; other 3-4 teams do this as well.
How often depends on the personnel of each team.

On the other end of the spectrum, in the last few years, we have seen more teams going with a 2-man line, a one-man line, and even a line with nobody putting a hand down on the ground.

There are different reasons but basically we can think of (1) making use of their personnel; ie. putting the best players on the field as often as possible, and (2) to give different looks.

Back to Ware and Mario, another thing is that some teams can also go with a bear front (6 or 7 guys on the LOS) with 3 or 4 down-linemen.
In these situations, it's quite likely that we can see a guy like Ware or Mario putting a hand in the dirt as well.

For the few answers I can offer, I've probaly raised more questions.
Maybe others can give more insights.
I'm only learning; the more I try, the more all these questions pop up.
Ah well, I guess that's where the fun is!
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