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Old 05-22-2011   #21
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Here's one scenario where that's actually unlikely to happen: if the Texans have a bad season, that means that Wade is probably the HC next year...
Huh? If the Texans have a bad season with the defense playing well, that's a true sign of the Apocalypse. Wade is going to either save Smithiak's jobs, "retire", or be retained by the next head coach.
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Old 05-22-2011   #22
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Huh? If the Texans have a bad season with the defense playing well, that's a true sign of the Apocalypse. Wade is going to either save Smithiak's jobs, "retire", or be retained by the next head coach.
Totally disagree - the only way Wade comes to work here is with the owners promise that he's the next HC if Kubiak is canned. You don't really think he came here with a long-term goal of remaining the Texans DC for several years do you ?
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Old 05-22-2011   #23
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Huh? If the Texans have a bad season with the defense playing well, that's a true sign of the Apocalypse. Wade is going to either save Smithiak's jobs, "retire", or be retained by the next head coach.
Depends on how you define "well".

We've played games where the defense was good enough to win, but one unit or another had a complete letdown at the end or in a crucial moment.
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Old 05-22-2011   #24
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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whom obviously didnt consider statistical and common sense evidence. i'm not one to promote mario as a pass rusher since i don't feel that's his strength, but his results (especially despite injury) speak for themselves. first year with turf toe, later with groin and shoulder setbacks, he is still statistically in the top 5 among pass rushers since 2006 as far as i know - as a defensive end in a 43 defense without any secondary support - while playing through those injuries. oh and by the way there is no other DE i'd rather have in run support.

i'll say again (as i repeated myself in regards to babin playing with a hand on the ground - yeah, i'm claiming "i told you so" lol), mario is an ideal 3-4 defensive end in the richard seymore role and pairs to perfection with jj watt with a similar build and skillset - they just hold different finishers - mario's freak athleticism and watt's freak tenacity.

i would favor mario and watt to suh and fairley ... and we're in position to get each more 1v1 opportunities inside if we dont cater to the perception that mario needs to be a 3rd down paycheck pass rusher.

mario is easily the strongest texan (a status he politely tried to pass to okam without anyone buying it), has awesome jump and straight line attack speed, and his height is an asset to be used inside to disrupt quarterbacks. however, mario has no hips, he cant drop or persue, and he's exceptionally slow off the snap the further he gets from the ball. for his freakish nature, he is NOT athletic enough to solely play rush linebacker regardless of weight. to even suggest it is a veiled attempt at trying to keep him on the squad to avoid a situation like carolina losing peppers. obviously mario's a monster and can plow a few sacks from a standup WOLB position, but in the grand scheme i'd rather he be bruce smith than demarcus ware.

Edit: drunk scooter, no quoting.
Who in the top 10 list would you put MW ahead of?
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Old 05-22-2011   #25
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Huh? If the Texans have a bad season with the defense playing well, that's a true sign of the Apocalypse. Wade is going to either save Smithiak's jobs, "retire", or be retained by the next head coach.
Do you think BoB will re-sign MW to the contract he desires if MW has 8-10 sacks and is only effective in 10-12 games do to being injured? (Playing hurt/Out because of injury)

I dont see BoB giving MW the $$$$ he wants.
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Old 05-22-2011   #26
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Do you think BoB will re-sign MW to the contract he desires if MW has 8-10 sacks and is only effective in 10-12 games do to being injured? (Playing hurt/Out because of injury)

I dont see BoB giving MW the $$$$ he wants.
I do.

Bob has shown that he is willing to do things for his star players.

Cutting Carr instead of trading him, Re-working Dre's deal when he didn't have to, Going to bat on some bat shit crazy theory with Cushing...Getting OD and Demeco signed...
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Old 05-22-2011   #27
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Depends on how you define "well".
20ppg allowed or less. 8 of the 10 teams that met that criteria in 2010 made the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Totally disagree - the only way Wade comes to work here is with the owners promise that he's the next HC if Kubiak is canned.
That's absurd on its face. Phillips is a good defensive coordinator who could have landed another coordinator gig. But he's off the radar as far as head coaching jobs are concerned.

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Do you think BoB will re-sign MW to the contract he desires if MW has 8-10 sacks and is only effective in 10-12 games do to being injured? (Playing hurt/Out because of injury)
See the quote below from earlier in the thread.
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Now if Mario has a serious injury (not the nagging types of injuries he's had), then maybe the Texans would tag Mario and play a wait and see approach.
There's a lot of Mario hate on this board. There's a lot of hate, period. Considering the "results" this team has produced, that's understandable. But, let's try to be rational. Mario Williams is still considered to be one of the premier defensive talents in the league. He's not going to be traded for a couple of draft picks. Let's get real.
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Old 05-22-2011   #28
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
That list is ridiculous. Aside from possibly Matthews and Ware, none of the players listed above would be more coveted than Mario. Though, they are all good players.

If you're considering trading Mario, then you're considering rebuilding. And you may as well trade AJ and Schaub, while you're at it. Because they will be past their prime by the time the next version of the Texans are ready. The last thing the Texans need is to get younger. What they need is hair on the chest of the players already on the roster.
Totally disagree. Scenario which could happen:

Quin does well as FS. Barwin and Reed get playing time and do very well
splitting plays. 52 defense improves to top 15 and Texans go 11-5 and win first play off series but lose in next. We have signed an average FA corner and KJ looks much better with coaching and a season behind him.
Demeco has a slightly above avg season and suffers no serious injuries. Cushing has a very good year but not like rookie year. Mario gets 12+ sacks. JJ Watts looks very good. Harris nails the nickle spot.

The offense has another good year.

A team offers a first and third in 2012 and a 3rd in 2013 for Williams. Texans are definitely not in re-building mode. We can use two firsts, second and two thirds to put team in excellent spot. If Barwin and Reed and Watt do as expected, Mario can be expendable for the right deal.
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Old 05-22-2011   #29
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Totally disagree. Scenario which could happen:

Quin does well as FS. Barwin and Reed get playing time and do very well
splitting plays. 52 defense improves to top 15 and Texans go 11-5 and win first play off series but lose in next. We have signed an average FA corner and KJ looks much better with coaching and a season behind him.
Demeco has a slightly above avg season and suffers no serious injuries. Cushing has a very good year but not like rookie year. Mario gets 12+ sacks. JJ Watts looks very good. Harris nails the nickle spot.

The offense has another good year.

A team offers a first and third in 2012 and a 3rd in 2013 for Williams. Texans are definitely not in re-building mode. We can use two firsts, second and two thirds to put team in excellent spot. If Barwin and Reed and Watt do as expected, Mario can be expendable for the right deal.
badboy, that's sure enough the Perfect Storm allright. I'd like to see Meco have a good year but from all I've read after what CND posted right after it happened, odds are really stacked against him. I'd really like to see Cush have another season like his rookie year and see everything else play out as well, including seeing Mario make it standing up. Guess we'll all see what happens. If anything happens at all.
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Old 05-23-2011   #30
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
A team offers a first and third in 2012 and a 3rd in 2013 for Williams. Texans are definitely not in re-building mode. We can use two firsts, second and two thirds to put team in excellent spot. If Barwin and Reed and Watt do as expected, Mario can be expendable for the right deal.
Where's the first round pick located at? Top 5? That's still not a sure thing. I'm sorry, but trading a guy who helps take you to your first playoff appearance in franchise history for a few picks is just flat out stupid.
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Old 05-23-2011   #31
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
There's a lot of Mario hate on this board. There's a lot of hate, period. Considering the "results" this team has produced, that's understandable. But, let's try to be rational. Mario Williams is still considered to be one of the premier defensive talents in the league. He's not going to be traded for a couple of draft picks. Let's get real.
Yes there is and I just don't get it. Fellow NFL players give Mario more credit than his home town fans. Ridiculous.
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Old 05-23-2011   #32
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

I do not understand why I am being called a Mario hater? I have said in this thread that I'd be ok with Mario remaining on team if he is productive. I like him but if the Texans could be made better with a trade and not have to be in a re-building year, I will consider that.
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Old 05-23-2011   #33
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

If the Texans do decided to let Mario go for 2 1st round picks, I don't see where they'll be "rebuilding" either. Especially after they just took two of the highest rated OLBers in their collective drafts in Barwin and Reed.

The Texans have put themselves in a very good position just in case they have to move on without Mario Williams and if we do have to move on without him for whatever reason (Can't sign everybody and what if Arian runs for 1,500+ yards again), they won't be "rebuilding" on defense. Just retooling with depth that they have smartly added over the last couple of drafts. It's what teams do all the time.
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Old 05-23-2011   #34
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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If the Texans do decided to let Mario go for 2 1st round picks, I don't see where they'll be "rebuilding" either. Especially after they just took two of the highest rated OLBers in their collective drafts in Barwin and Reed.
What team would actually give up two first round picks for Mario though? I can't think of any unless Al Davis had a hard on for him. Mario isn't worth that much.
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Old 05-23-2011   #35
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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What team would actually give up two first round picks for Mario though? I can't think of any unless Al Davis had a hard on for him. Mario isn't worth that much.
Who knows, but it most likely would be to a 4-3 team, because until we actually see what Mario can do in a 3-4 scheme or even as a "third DE" we don't even know what his value is in this defense. So I don't see how anyone could say losing him means we'll have to totally rebuild on defense next season. LOL, if you think about it we're ALREADY rebuilding on defense... We just brought in a new D.C., with a new scheme, and a whole new slew of defensive players.
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Old 05-23-2011   #36
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

I think part of building your team (particularly through the draft) is keeping those foundational pieces in place. I just can't fathom the idea of getting rid of Mario one bit. Now if the Staff thinks Mario isn't useful for the team on the roster, then by all means. I just can't see that being the case at all.

I think we have a better chance of Mario being very very good for us, than say two first round picks playing to their "potential" and being as good or better than Mario. We're getting close to having our team built... I don't want to trade important pieces of that for complete unknowns.
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Old 05-23-2011   #37
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I think part of building your team (particularly through the draft) is keeping those foundational pieces in place. I just can't fathom the idea of getting rid of Mario one bit. Now if the Staff thinks Mario isn't useful for the team on the roster, then by all means. I just can't see that being the case at all.

I think we have a better chance of Mario being very very good for us, than say two first round picks playing to their "potential" and being as good or better than Mario. We're getting close to having our team built... I don't want to trade important pieces of that for complete unknowns.
So if Connor Barwin and Reed both prove to be more than capable pass rushers for us, you don't see the Texans mindset if they decide to spend money elsewhere that is extremely lacking.....and whatever high round picks they might be offered? Nobody knows what is going to happen next season, but I can see a scenario that plays out where the Texans might not retain Mario Williams (outside of a franchise tag) when he becomes a UFA.

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Old 05-23-2011   #38
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

If Mario has a Probowl type of season then I see him being retained here...
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Old 05-23-2011   #39
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
So if Connor Barwin and Reed both prove to be more than capable pass rushers for us, you don't see the Texans mind set if they decide to spend money elsewhere that is extremely lacking.....and whatever high round picks they might be offered? Nobody knows what is going to happen next season, but I can see a scenario that plays out where the Texans might not retain Mario Williams (outside of a franchise tag) when he becomes a UFA.
If Antonio Smith and JJ Watt prove to be exceptional DEs and Barwin/Reed both prove to be more than capable pass rushers, with one reaching close to Clay Matthews-type of production.... and Mario looks to be marginally better, if not worse than the others.... then yes, there might be a chance.

Good luck with that.

I just feel that Mario has been our most productive defensive player on this team since 2006. And I think he has the best chance to continue to play at a high level, if not better than he has in the past. I have bigger question marks about the other players on this team giving us the production we want and need than with Mario. That's where my feelings come from and why I think it's doubtful he doesn't stay on this team (outside of major injury or if he hates Houston and wants to play elsewhere).
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Old 05-23-2011   #40
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Default Re: Eye of Perfect Storm Mario?

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
If Antonio Smith and JJ Watt prove to be exceptional DEs and Barwin/Reed both prove to be more than capable pass rushers, with one reaching close to Clay Matthews-type of production.... and Mario looks to be marginally better, if not worse than the others.... then yes, there might be a chance.

Good luck with that.
Or they could just prove that they're more than capable at being productive at their jobs. Or Mario could prove that he's not as dominant (in this system as he was in a 4-3)

That's all it might take to convince them to spend upwards of 90+ million dollars at another position and another bleeding weakness on this team. If that is what happens, then I want them to spend that money elsewhere, because I want a solid all around team

For what it's worth I think J.J. Watt and Reed are going to be more than capable producers for this defense for the foreseeable future and last year even with all his stupid penalties, Antonio Smith was our best and most consistent DE. Mario Williams is not irreplaceable, especially when we don't even know what he is in this defense yet.
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