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Old 04-16-2005   #1
texansfan88
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Default Minnesota Looking to step forward for #1 Pick and other big news

As some of you know, I work for NL Scouting, which is one of the most prestigious scouting services known throughout the NFL thanks to my boss, East-West Shrine Game Player Director John Murphy.

We got an email today w/ tons of stuff in it, so being the nice guy I am, I will post some of what was said.

Summarization:
The Vikings are looking to trade up to #1, but their 2 first round picks alone, will not be enough. More interestingly, even their 2 first round picks, and their 2nd round pick (#49) would not be enough to trade up.

"Well, they (Minneosta) certainly have the ammunition to try making a move like that, but it would likely be a costly trade in terms of (total) choices exchanged", explained one NFL scouting director who was posed the idea of the Vikings attempting to move up with San Francisco

If this deal goes down, Minnesota would select Braylon Edwards as the first overall selection in the draft next saturday.

The most likely scenario if this goes down (Not using the regular draft trade value chart b/c this year has a weird tiering of talent)

Vikings Get:
#1 overall pick
San Francisco 3rd round pick

San Francisco gets:
#7 overall pick
#18 overall Pick
2nd round Vikings pick
3rd round Vikings pick.

GEORGIA junior linebacker ODELL THURMAN was involved in a nightclub incident last weekend that may have led to him being formally arrested... although there have been no arrest papers or charges officially released... a number of current and former Georgia Bulldogs' football players were involved in an arguement that grew into a full-fledged fight at a local area Athens night spot... Thurman was recognized and pointed out by one managers of the establishment who saw him lead away by local authorities after the incident... this is obviously something that needs to be further investigated, but Thurman continues to confound even his biggest supporters... he had several similar type off-field problems that led him to miss several games due to suspension, and initially caused him to attend a military prep school coming out of high school... however, on the flip side, he is a kid that has seen both of his parents already pass away, while also being the father of two small children... there are several teams that feel he will be fine in a structured environment, while others have been left to wonder how he well he will adjust to the NFL lifestyle.

AUBURN senior cornerback CARLOS ROGERS, our #1 rated cornerback before the Combine, as earned or tied for that top spot on most NFL teams' boards along with MIAMI'S ANTREL ROLLE... there are a few teams that feel that Rolle could be an elite free safety, but will struggle in certain defensive schemes if left at cornerback... while WEST VIRGINIA junior cornerback/return man ADAM "PACMAN" JONES comes up next, although some teams have given him more of a late first-round grade.

OKLAHOMA senior offensive tackle JAMAAL BROWN, who is listed as high as #2 on some boards at his position, has also drawn some added attention by teams that are researching his medical records to be sure they are confident in his durability and injury history... while some feel he could develop into a dominating right tackle... there are others that grade him somewhat lower based on durability/injury/strength questions.

OKLAHOMA senior defensive end/linebacker DAN CODY has drawn a few more concerns from teams that are pondering his professional future, while analyzing how the medication he currently takes for clinical depression might effect him short-or-long term... the concerns don't seem to be about his on-field performance or ability to handle the NFL lifestyle, but more about his ability to keep up his weight, battle little injuries if he cannot mix and match other prescribed medications, and also the vulnerability of how a pro athlete in a new area might be effected by the every day run of the mill things that can confront them.

OKLAHOMA STATE junior running back VERNAND MORENCY, who surprisingly never decided to run/workout for scouts a second time after running between 4.58 and 4.66 in the 40 at Miami's Pro Day, was receiving a lot of positive attention after coaches/scouts evaluated more of his game film, but it has been balanced out by the fact that the former minor-league baseball prospect drew several red flags for issues involving his off-field behavior... he is still throught to be a solid mid-to-late "Day One" selection, depending on your total evaluation of him on-and-off the field.

SAN DIEGO STATE junior MATT MCCOY, who recently had one of his final private visits with the NY Jets, weighed in at 6020, 245 pounds at the team's Hempstead, NY complex... while many other outlets have reported his weight at being in the 230-pound range he has not been below 235-238 pounds since the end of the season... which was much closer to his actual playing weight than the 220 pounds listed on the school's website the past two years... McCoy actually reported out of high school at between 218 and 224 pounds... keep an eye on Atlanta, Baltimore, Philadelphia, all of whom could have him rated above several other more well-known names.

SOUTH CAROLINA senior defensive tackle DARRELL SHROPSHIRE and MISSISSIPPI STATE senior defensive tackle RONALD FIELDS have been the two names most often mentioned in terms of players that could now move up draft boards based on the reports that came out earlier this week, regarding the positive drug test results that came back on Northwestern's LUIS CASTILLO and Wisconsin's ANTTAJ HAWTHORNE... "Both of those guys (Shropshire/Fields) could now be solid day one picks if there is a run on interior defenders... (I) think that Castillo will slide about half a round based on the reports (I) have seen... Hawthorne... it is too early for me to make a decision on that right now", explained one team official.

TEXAS senior outside linebacker DERRICK JOHNSON, who is considered a sure-fire Top-10 choice by most outlets, does not get the same full ringing endorsement by all 32 NFL teams... "(I'm) still waiting to see him get off a block on these (college) tapes", said one position coach... "If you take away those ESPN highlights than there is very little else to see in terms of big plays out of this guy (Johnson)", explained one area scout... so while there is still a high percentage of teams that have him rated highly... a small minority does not even consider him a first round prospect... meanwhile, TEXAS senior running back CEDRIC BENSON has also seen some criticism during the mid-to-late portion of the evaluation process... there is a decent percentage of teams that think that in another year he could slide down the draft board in similar fashion to Steven Jackson (St. Louis) at last year's draft... "(I'd) take him with a mid-to-late first round choice, but he's (Benson) not a clear cut Top-10 draft choice... (I) don't always see the second gear of speed in his game... and he is inconsistent in finishing his runs", said one team official.

VIRGINIA junior tight end HEATH MILLER has been unable to workout for scouts/coaches leading up to the draft due to a sports hernia... but there have been several teams that feel that this might become a more serious problem, as it is the type of injury that can become a lingering issue... while he does not have any other specific injuries to date on record... there were a host of teams that wanted to get their own team doctors to evaluate his full medical history in recent weeks.

Fresno Sate DE/OLB Claude Sanders has seen interest from the Texans, but maybe just as a late round flyer

Utah Defensive End John Fanene has had a private visit with the Texans
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Old 04-16-2005   #2
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Cool, thanks for posting this...That seems like a hell of a lot for Minnesota to give up in order to move up 6 spaces, but if they're happy doing it, then sobeit...
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Old 04-16-2005   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-ReK
Cool, thanks for posting this...That seems like a hell of a lot for Minnesota to give up in order to move up 6 spaces, but if they're happy doing it, then sobeit...
yeah i was thinking the same thing, but if thats what it takes, it may be worth it
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Old 04-16-2005   #4
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No way I can see that trade go down. They give up way too much relative to Edwards talent. Randy Moss couldn't get 2 firsts, a second and a third. No way Edwards does.
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Old 04-16-2005   #5
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Anyone want to post thoughts on the Derrick Johnson section?
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Old 04-16-2005   #6
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Thats common knowledge with DJ. Teams are all over the place on him.
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Old 04-16-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Thats common knowledge with DJ. Teams are all over the place on him.
True, but on Benson, I knew that they were skeptical of the Ricky Williams thing, but not his actual play
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Old 04-16-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfan88
Anyone want to post thoughts on the Derrick Johnson section?
Hopefully the teams that think he isn't a 1st rounder caliber player are San Fran, Miami, Cleveland, Chicago, Tampa, Tennessee, Minnesota, Arizona, Washington, Detroit, Dallas, and San Diego, leaving him to fall right into our laps...Unless we're not high on him either ...This draft is too confusing...
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Old 04-16-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfan88
True, but on Benson, I knew that they were skeptical of the Ricky Williams thing, but not his actual play
I donno, seems to me people have knocked Benson for a while just because he isn't Earl Campbell or Ricky Williams. He is Ced Benson, and he is neither. I personally see him run and see a guy who is elusive, runs with power, and gets yards after contact. If you don't run a 4.4 40 you will get knocked. Look at Emmitt Smith. He ran a slow 40 and dropped as well. He made everyone look like fools except the Cowboys.

Good stuff 88
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Old 04-16-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
No way I can see that trade go down. They give up way too much relative to Edwards talent. Randy Moss couldn't get 2 firsts, a second and a third. No way Edwards does.
Despite the verbage, the trade outlined is NOT 2 firsts, 1 second and 1 third. It's 2 firsts, 1 second and a FLIP of the 3rd (See where the actual trade listed shows SF's 3 round headed to the Vikings?) - since SF drafts considerably higher than the Vikings, that's actually a half round increase in the 3rd. So the trade is less than 2 firsts and a second. It's still too much, but Minnesota's showing desperation recently.
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Old 04-16-2005   #11
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As dumb as the Viks have been about/on draft day, they just might do this. I wouldn't put it past them to do the trade and then be late with their selection and then Miami step up to grab it. LOL
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Old 04-16-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edo783
As dumb as the Viks have been about/on draft day, they just might do this. I wouldn't put it past them to do the trade and then be late with their selection and then Miami step up to grab it. LOL
Late with the #1 would take some SERIOUS doing.
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Old 04-16-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfan88
Anyone want to post thoughts on the Derrick Johnson section?
The Browns like DJ (per the Cleveland Plain Dealer). Since they have the #3 pick, their opinion carries some weight.
Quote:
Johnson, the top-rated defensive player in the draft, is one the Browns are considering with the No. 3 overall pick. Earlier this week, Browns Director of Player Personnel Bill Rees said outside linebacker is "the critical position" in the 3-4 scheme.

"[Outside linebacker] is where you want your playmakers," he said. "Derrick plays inside but can rush off the edge. He can play outside and put pressure on the quarterback."

If the Browns are looking for a big-play linebacker, Johnson is their guy. Last year as a senior, he forced an NCAA-record nine fumbles. He also set a Texas record for linebackers with nine career interceptions.

"I have a knack for the ball," said Johnson. "It's my biggest asset, other than my speed."

Thanks to a stellar pro day workout, Johnson's stock is rising. His agent, Vann McElroy, said Friday that teams are trying to trade up for him and the Browns have undoubtedly fielded calls. But if Johnson is there at No. 3, the Browns might not be willing to part with him.

"They've shown a lot of interest in me and they really seem to like me," Johnson said Friday. "They think I can spark their 3-4 defense. I'd be honored to play for the Browns and I'm as excited about them as they seem to be about me."
Are the Browns looking at Johnson at #3 or in a trade down with someone like the Vikes? Who knows, but they are looking.
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Old 04-16-2005   #14
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#3 they'll take Johnson
trade down they'll take merrimen
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Old 04-16-2005   #15
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I think the main reason the Vikes would make that trade is so they dont miss their pick this year..
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Old 04-17-2005   #16
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thanks crazy88 for that post I was able to draft Braylon Edwards at the 7th pick without trading......not that it means how its going to go down but be realistic, why for the love of God would the vikings be that stupid.

but this is my favorite late 1st day pick-

SAN DIEGO STATE junior MATT MCCOY, who recently had one of his final private visits with the NY Jets, weighed in at 6020, 245 pounds at the team's Hempstead, NY complex... while many other outlets have reported his weight at being in the 230-pound range he has not been below 235-238 pounds since the end of the season... which was much closer to his actual playing weight than the 220 pounds listed on the school's website the past two years... McCoy actually reported out of high school at between 218 and 224 pounds... keep an eye on Atlanta, Baltimore, Philadelphia, all of whom could have him rated above several other more well-known names.

Matt should be a primary target of the Texans. I feel that he is a perfect fit as ILB in a 3-4 not a 4-3 WLB (although he could easily fill that role as well). with Greenwood in fold for a 3rd round pick Casserly could set the middle LB positon for at least the next 4 years. after next season Wong will be gong and the Texans could have a formidiable linebacking group with Babin, Greenwood, McCoy and Peek.
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Old 04-17-2005   #17
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what the heck!?!?! Crazy88? not cool man
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Old 04-17-2005   #18
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Minnesota would be stupid to trade all that just for Edwards. They could easily get him or MW at #7 and then use the 18th pick for defense.
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Old 04-17-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I donno, seems to me people have knocked Benson for a while just because he isn't Earl Campbell or Ricky Williams. He is Ced Benson, and he is neither. I personally see him run and see a guy who is elusive, runs with power, and gets yards after contact. If you don't run a 4.4 40 you will get knocked. Look at Emmitt Smith. He ran a slow 40 and dropped as well. He made everyone look like fools except the Cowboys.

Good stuff 88

Emmitt was explosive in college and had a number of amazing runs. You're right about his stock falling when he ran a 4.55, but that is not my criticism of Benson. Not only is Benson not particularly fast, but he doesn't run people over either. He's not a power back anymore than Marcus Allen was. He has limited potential and a lot of miles on his legs. He just doesn't make sense in the top half of the first round!
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Old 04-17-2005   #20
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Thanks for the info 88 - very interesting. One thing about rating a player for the draft and where he's picked in the draft does not require a consensus or even simple majority - it only takes one vote. For example, if 31 teams think a certain player stinks but one team loves him and they have the #6 or #7 or whatever overall - well this guy goes in the top ten.
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