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Old 04-18-2011   #21
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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To get Peterson we would have to trade up to #2. Because Buffalo isn't trading down. They will take either Newton or Miller. Maybe Cincinnati would trade down at #4. But I think they want either Green or Jones, and they would risk losing both of them.
Draft Day, or should I say Draft Night, is going to be very interesting. Teams are chomping @ the bit to get their guy(s). There will be some significant trades we just have no way of knowing who to where to when only rumors to feed on over the next 10 days.
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Old 04-18-2011   #22
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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I don't know the source but the Mighty Quin is reporting there are rumors Texans are in love with Patrick Peterson.
But isn't every team in love with Peterson ?
^^^
But something just occured to me about the top pick in the Draft this year - this may the first year we really don't know who it is until the actual pick happens a week from Thursday, because without a new CBA, Carolina has no incentive or even the right to negotiate a deal before the pick from what I understand ? So why would they even announce early who there pick is ?
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Old 04-18-2011   #23
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

I saw J.Smith as a top 10 pick going into the 2010 season and he really didn't do anything to change my mind. I think Amukamara benefited from being on a good defense and has been overrated.

The Texans won't take Smith though.
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Old 04-18-2011   #24
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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I saw J.Smith as a top 10 pick going into the 2010 season and he really didn't do anything to change my mind. I think Amukamara benefited from being on a good defense and has been overrated.

The Texans won't take Smith though.
I agree because of his background. I'd like the team to kinda get over that, a little. At the same time, I'm glad that I don't see any Dez Bryant/Kenny Britt stories from the Texans.
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Old 04-18-2011   #25
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

"Winning" Charlie Texan

The one thing that really stands out to me is Smith doesn' get beat deep. Even against top flight competition like aj green. Prince however was beaten deep sometimes in the same game, remember Blackman, OSU? Sound familiar? So when I graded out CB prospects Jimmy Smith's name Graded out #2 behind only Peterson
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Old 04-19-2011   #26
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

BL, I dont know if the trading will work out. But I would trust your board more than Rick and Garys.

Smith would be a good pick. But that's not what the Texans do.

The Texans should give up whar it takes (2011 2nd, 2012 2nd) to get either Peterson or Miller. Both of those 2nd rd picks could turn out to be Joppru/Hollings. You dont know how those picks will turn out. Peterson/Miller are safe picks. When you're as bad at drafting as Rick and Gary are. Give me the sure thing Miller/Peterson over a Rick/Gary 2nd and pray any day. LOL

But BoB has to be willing to spend the $$$$$ to move up and he's never made a bold move like moving up from #11 to # 5. I dont see this changing anytime soon.
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Old 04-19-2011   #27
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

You could be right, think about it, the Texans did trade down two spots in the Top 10 no less, plus 2007 & 2008 2nd rd. picks to Atlanta for Matt Schaub & that turned out pretty well. At the same time the Texans traded down in 08 from #18 to #26 for what turned out to be Duane Brown & Steve Slaton so that worked out pretty well for Rick Smith too. Lets give our GM some credit for the right moves he makes too.

Here I have tried to identify the CB with the highest ceiling going into this draft. Remember about this time in 2004 (I) was just learning about this draft stuff when came shooting up the boards one Dunta Robinson. I could not believe a player could seemingly come out of nowhere from a 2nd rd. grade all the way to the Top 10 & that team just so happened to be my (our) Houston Texans?????? Needless to say it was unfathomable. He was wiry thin, barley 182 soaking wet with so called jet speed & stood a meager 5'10". He turned out to be heck of a player until that unfortunate play, while he returned (credit to him for awesome rehab) he was never the same player, frustrated with loss of future revenue he went to the infamous pay me Rick card, got his meal ticket punched & out of here, now all the Texans have to show for it is Mr. Irrelevant.

But that's enough down memory lane, I bring that up only to point out that Jimmy Smith has a much higher ceiling in this league, off field transgressions aside, he is bigger, much bigger, just as quick in space, better long speed, elite fluidity makes it look effortless which is a problem sometimes cause it looks like he takes plays off, which does happen too. The only real weakness in his game I've seen is he will bite on play-action, he is very disruptive & likes to get physical, into the body early, disrupting route or ball flight which could lead to excessive PI calls. But like I said his recovery speed is elite & he can close quickly, does not get beat deep so safety help on his side can cheat to the other side (Kareem).

It's very hard to nail down a team he fits best because all teams really need a player @ his position who is a true Shut-down corner. I think more & more people like me when they finally finish their Big Board or position board will understand he is a better CB @ the next level than Prince & who knows for sure if Peterson remains a CB? depends on the team who drafts him & their needs, he could wind up being a safety in the mold of Sean Taylor, he is such a dynamic, athletic, physical playmaker. When I mocked this draft out I thought 18 was a pretty safe bet, now I'm not so sure could go to Jacksonville @ #16 while Miami is also a threat because they too need CB help. Who knows maybe in a week or so Jimmy Smith will move up to #11 pick straight up? Because he does have Top 10 talent.
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Old 04-19-2011   #28
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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BL, I dont know if the trading will work out. But I would trust your board more than Rick and Garys.

Smith would be a good pick. But that's not what the Texans do.

The Texans should give up whar it takes (2011 2nd, 2012 2nd) to get either Peterson or Miller. Both of those 2nd rd picks could turn out to be Joppru/Hollings. You dont know how those picks will turn out. Peterson/Miller are safe picks. When you're as bad at drafting as Rick and Gary are. Give me the sure thing Miller/Peterson over a Rick/Gary 2nd and pray any day. LOL

But BoB has to be willing to spend the $$$$$ to move up and he's never made a bold move like moving up from #11 to # 5. I dont see this changing anytime soon.
I have to disagree here. Moving up a few spots is one thing, but when teams give up a lot to move up for a unproven player, it usually doesn't work out. Here are some examples.

Texans give up multiple draft picks for Jason babin.
Saints give up multiple draft picks for Ricky Williams.
Browns give up multiple draft picks for Brady Quinn
Jets give up multiple picks for Dwayne Robertson.
Falcons give up multiple picks for Michael Vick.

When you move up a lot and give up multiple picks it generally does not work.
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Old 04-19-2011   #29
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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But that's enough down memory lane, I bring that up only to point out that Jimmy Smith has a much higher ceiling in this league, off field transgressions aside, he is bigger, much bigger, just as quick in space, better long speed, elite fluidity makes it look effortless which is a problem sometimes cause it looks like he takes plays off, which does happen too. The only real weakness in his game I've seen is he will bite on play-action, he is very disruptive & likes to get physical, into the body early, disrupting route or ball flight which could lead to excessive PI calls. But like I said his recovery speed is elite & he can close quickly, does not get beat deep so safety help on his side can cheat to the other side (Kareem).

It's very hard to nail down a team he fits best because all teams really need a player @ his position who is a true Shut-down corner. I think more & more people like me when they finally finish their Big Board or position board will understand he is a better CB @ the next level than Prince & who knows for sure if Peterson remains a CB? depends on the team who drafts him & their needs, he could wind up being a safety in the mold of Sean Taylor, he is such a dynamic, athletic, physical playmaker. When I mocked this draft out I thought 18 was a pretty safe bet, now I'm not so sure could go to Jacksonville @ #16 while Miami is also a threat because they too need CB help. Who knows maybe in a week or so Jimmy Smith will move up to #11 pick straight up? Because he does have Top 10 talent.
You are correct in all of that. However, there are two reaosnjs I wouldn't take him.

1. he had a substance abuse history in college. If I remember correctly, a college player with a substance abuse history automatically goes into the NFL substance abuse program. While other player get one failed drug test before they are asked to join the program, those with the history go in automatically. If he fails another drug test while in the program, he misses games.

2. When asked about it at the combine he did not man up, admit fault, and discuss the steps he was taking to rectify the problem. He instead either treated it like it was no big deal or blamed others. He has an opportunity to show he had learned a lesson and failed to demonstrate it. This can translate to the field where if he gets burned a couple of times, will he be coachable and try to see what he did wrong or will he blame try to blame his teamates?

For me, it is too risky to take a guy like that in the first round like that.
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Old 04-19-2011   #30
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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You are correct in all of that. However, there are two reaosnjs I wouldn't take him.

1. he had a substance abuse history in college. If I remember correctly, a college player with a substance abuse history automatically goes into the NFL substance abuse program. While other player get one failed drug test before they are asked to join the program, those with the history go in automatically. If he fails another drug test while in the program, he misses games.

2. When asked about it at the combine he did not man up, admit fault, and discuss the steps he was taking to rectify the problem. He instead either treated it like it was no big deal or blamed others. He has an opportunity to show he had learned a lesson and failed to demonstrate it. This can translate to the field where if he gets burned a couple of times, will he be coachable and try to see what he did wrong or will he blame try to blame his teamates?

For me, it is too risky to take a guy like that in the first round like that.
fair enough. I'll admit I'm off the reservation (Texans) but not in terms of need.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/...Smith-Colorado
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Old 04-20-2011   #31
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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he had a substance abuse history in college. If I remember correctly, a college player with a substance abuse history automatically goes into the NFL substance abuse program.
I think a player has to pop positive at the combine in order to enter the league under the substance abuse program (like Carlos Rogers did). A failed drug test in college isn't relevant. The NFLPA would never agree to that, because the league doesn't administer the tests.
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Old 04-20-2011   #32
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

drafting jordan wasn't necessary...in the nfl you don't draft for another team. it's not like the nba where prospects change hats minutes after being drafted by a team.
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Old 04-20-2011   #33
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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When you move up a lot and give up multiple picks it generally does not work.
Broncos give up multiple picks and get Elway.
Rams give up multiple picks and get Dickerson.
Oilers Broncos give up multiple picks and get Campbell.

It works. When you draft the right guy.
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Old 04-20-2011   #34
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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drafting jordan wasn't necessary...in the nfl you don't draft for another team. it's not like the nba where prospects change hats minutes after being drafted by a team.
necessary to me, I want to be on record that Cameron Jordan is my pick of choice #11 for the Texans.

if there is satisfactory offer to trade down the Texans probably would strongly consider it. These type of trades have happened in the NFL before, one example that comes to mind involved the Chargers, who selected Eli Manning 1st overall then when the Giants drafted Phillip Rivers they traded each others selection + Chargers made a haul in extra picks.

In regards to a team willing to trade up once again its the Chargers. Last year they moved from #28 to #12 to acquire RB Ryan Matthews. Jordan is a higher rated player than Ryan at a position of need for their 3-4 defense with the Patriots selecting with similar needs one slot before them.
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Old 04-20-2011   #35
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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Broncos give up multiple picks and get Elway.
Rams give up multiple picks and get Dickerson.
Oilers Broncos give up multiple picks and get Campbell.

It works. When you draft the right guy.
key word, generally. three isolated instances does not equal rule of thumb.
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Old 04-20-2011   #36
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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Broncos give up multiple picks and get Elway.
Rams give up multiple picks and get Dickerson.
Oilers Broncos give up multiple picks and get Campbell.

It works. When you draft the right guy.
Problem is you never know for certain when it is the right guy.
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Old 04-20-2011   #37
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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necessary to me, I want to be on record that Cameron Jordan is my pick of choice #11 for the Texans.

if there is satisfactory offer to trade down the Texans probably would strongly consider it. These type of trades have happened in the NFL before, one example that comes to mind involved the Chargers, who selected Eli Manning 1st overall then when the Giants drafted Phillip Rivers they traded each others selection + Chargers made a haul in extra picks.

In regards to a team willing to trade up once again its the Chargers. Last year they moved from #28 to #12 to acquire RB Ryan Matthews. Jordan is a higher rated player than Ryan at a position of need for their 3-4 defense with the Patriots selecting with similar needs one slot before them.
the whole eli thing was completely different situation with different circumstances. aside from him, can you recall the last player that was traded on draft day minutes after being selected? the whole drafting a player to use as trade bait just doesn't happen in the NFL. not trying to give you a hard time about it, but it's like i said, the NFL doesn't operate like the NBA. scouts, coaches and GMs put in too much work to be changing their mind on players after they already selected.
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Old 04-20-2011   #38
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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the whole eli thing was completely different situation with different circumstances. aside from him, can you recall the last player that was traded on draft day minutes after being selected? the whole drafting a player to use as trade bait just doesn't happen in the NFL. not trying to give you a hard time about it, but it's like i said, the NFL doesn't operate like the NBA. scouts, coaches and GMs put in too much work to be changing their mind on players after they already selected.
right. again, worded it to be on record who I want if Texans stand pat. of course, they will review offers then trade down only if agreeable to them before making actual pick. I'm not saying run to the podium with Jordan's name before actual due process or select him with intention to turn him later to another team.

now we could have taken this a whole other direction (assuming this trade was made) who would you want the Texans to pick up #18 & 50 to address secondary or OLB? I carefully evaluated my board, downgraded off field issues to attain the most elite athlete/playamkers weighing the greatest needs in order of importance. I'm more willing to assume these risks @ this stage to jump start this defense, no more Mr. nice guys I want impact players on Sundays who can actually shutdown or sack someone.
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Old 04-20-2011   #39
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

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Broncos give up multiple picks and get Elway.
Rams give up multiple picks and get Dickerson.
Oilers Broncos give up multiple picks and get Campbell.

It works. When you draft the right guy.

It DOES work when you get the right guy. The right guy is a franchise quarterback or running back. I would have been glad to see a trade up to grab Adrian Peterson.

Last edited by OrdinaryAvgGuy; 04-20-2011 at 01:40 PM. Reason: I didn't like my phrasing.
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Old 04-20-2011   #40
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Default Re: Beerlover Final Texan 2011 Mock Draft

Funny thing, just noticed OURLADS have the Texans selecting Jimmy Smith in 2nd. wow, that would be a great pick/value there! FYI Ryan Kerrigan #11
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