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Old 03-25-2011   #181
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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How do we know they haven't been winning those bidding wars though? After all, it is the guys they think will help them. To my knowledge, the only guys that we know they lost out on in bidding wars were Orlando Pace (if he was even seriously thinking about coming here) & Bodden; 1 wasn't nearly the player he once was & the other tore up his knee before the season started so...
I don't think we lost the bidding war for Pace, I think he stayed with the Rams, for less money.

Same thing with David Givens. He's a hometown kid, but went to the Titans for less money.

I don't know about Bodden, but I don't think he ever wanted to leave NE.
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Old 03-25-2011   #182
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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Honestly, I think that if the Texans were offering all these players they would make it known.

I don't recall them being super secretive when bringing in Bodden last year...
I believe that was because Bodden wanted to dance.... with NE.

Just like Atogwe went to Washington recently. Smith might have called up Atogwe's agent the moment he was on the market. If his agent says Atogwe has no interest whatsoever, then there is no reason to go further, or publicize anything.

They aren't supposed to do it, but I'm sure agents already know what teams are interested. Atogwe probably knew the Redskins would make an offer, the Colts, the Ravens, Miami, Kansas City, Houston, and Arizona would be making a call. Atogwe could have said, "Take Houston & Arizona off the list." & that would be that.
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Old 03-25-2011   #183
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
What CnD said - we will never know their deeds in all likelihood. And yes there are plenty of "excuses" or reasons for not getting players. You are willing to pay $3 mil and someone else offers $8 mil in stupid money. The player wants the entire contract guaranteed. The player just doesn't like Houston. All of the player's family lives in Florida and Miami makes an offer. It's Innegan and he doesn't want AJ to punk him in practice every day. Whatever. There are lots of things beyond a team's control.
Agreed

And these things seem to happen to BoB,Rick and Gary more often than most teams.

They seem to have the ring of excuses.

Look the Texans are the 10th most profitable sports franchise in the world. If they want to sign somebody they can. There was no salary cap last yr and there may not be one this yr. They chose not to wade off deep into the FA pool last yr and the result when combined with a terrible draft was 6-10. If BoB,Rick and Gary choose to go the same route you can expect 6-10 or worse next yr too.

The Texans have to add 3-4 impact players on defense. Either through the draft/FA or a combination of the 2.

Keeping cap room open for FA's is why I was against resigning OD.
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Old 03-25-2011   #184
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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I believe that was because Bodden wanted to dance.... with NE.

Just like Atogwe went to Washington recently. Smith might have called up Atogwe's agent the moment he was on the market. If his agent says Atogwe has no interest whatsoever, then there is no reason to go further, or publicize anything.

They aren't supposed to do it, but I'm sure agents already know what teams are interested. Atogwe probably knew the Redskins would make an offer, the Colts, the Ravens, Miami, Kansas City, Houston, and Arizona would be making a call. Atogwe could have said, "Take Houston & Arizona off the list." & that would be that.
Possible

Or maybe BoB,Rick and Gary didn't make a call to his agent.

If Rick and Gary cant get players they need to come and play for them. Especially if the Texans offer top $$$$ (which I doubt) they should be fired. After all Atogwe signed with the Redskins they are picking 1 spot ahead of the Texans in the draft. So onviously winning and losing had nothing to do with Atogwe signing with the Redskins. Or not signing with the Texans.

This is just SOS different yr. Spin it BoB spin it.

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Old 03-25-2011   #185
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

Bottom line is most people on this MB think other HC/GM's are available that would be a major upgrade Over Rick and Gary.

BoB doesn't think that way and why should he? He isn't feeling it in his wallet. So what we on this MB think should happen to improve the Texans doesn't mean squat. BoB's attitude has poven this once again this offseason
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Old 03-25-2011   #186
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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Bottom line is most people on this MB think other HC/GM's are available that would be a major upgrade Over Rick and Gary.

BoB doesn't think that way and why should he? He isn't feeling it in his wallet. So what we on this MB think should happen to improve the Texans doesn't mean squat. BoB's attitude has poven this once again this offseason
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Old 03-26-2011   #187
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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Agreed

And these things seem to happen to BoB,Rick and Gary more often than most teams.

They seem to have the ring of excuses.

Look the Texans are the 10th most profitable sports franchise in the world. If they want to sign somebody they can. There was no salary cap last yr and there may not be one this yr. They chose not to wade off deep into the FA pool last yr and the result when combined with a terrible draft was 6-10. If BoB,Rick and Gary choose to go the same route you can expect 6-10 or worse next yr too.

The Texans have to add 3-4 impact players on defense. Either through the draft/FA or a combination of the 2.

Keeping cap room open for FA's is why I was against resigning OD.
Steel, a few thoughts:

1. Other than dumping big contracts, using the uncapped year as a means to spend was ill-advised, because NFL contracts almost neccessarily ascend or stay flat each year. There is no effective way to sign a player to a 6 year $50 mil contract that won't count significantly against the cap in years 2, 3, 4, 5, etc... In other words, overspending in 2010 would have a dramatic and negative affect on 2011 and 2012, once the cap was reinstated. Since the owners had determined to take something back in the CBA negotiations, smart teams prepared for the likelihood that the 2011 cap would be smaller than the 2009 cap was.

2. I think they should have been better prepared for the 2010 season, certainly. That being said, it was the weakest FA class ever due to the rule changes stemming from the uncapped season.

3. As we have discussed, I agree they need to be aggressive in FA and I also believe they will this year. If not, consider me part of the "we need major organizational changes" group.

4. I was with you regarding letting OD walk. However, they ended up getting a very good deal for him. So, I'm happy to see him back. OD only costs about $4 million per year against the cap and knocked off about $8 million in cap space letting ADavis, Wilson, Pollard go.
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Old 03-26-2011   #188
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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I don't think we lost the bidding war for Pace, I think he stayed with the Rams, for less money.

Same thing with David Givens. He's a hometown kid, but went to the Titans for less money.

I don't know about Bodden, but I don't think he ever wanted to leave NE.
I don't think any of those guys signed for less money. On Pace St. Louis matched the contract offer we made and 90% of the time that means a player stays with the team they are on. Bodden I believe they out bid us plus they had the present team advantage. Don't know on Givens. Do you have something that says he signed for less money? And why are we even talking Givens? Dude never started a full season in his career that ended five years ago.

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1. Other than dumping big contracts, using the uncapped year as a means to spend was ill-advised, because NFL contracts almost neccessarily ascend or stay flat each year. There is no effective way to sign a player to a 6 year $50 mil contract that won't count significantly against the cap in years 2, 3, 4, 5, etc... In other words, overspending in 2010 would have a dramatic and negative affect on 2011 and 2012, once the cap was reinstated. Since the owners had determined to take something back in the CBA negotiations, smart teams prepared for the likelihood that the 2011 cap would be smaller than the 2009 cap was.
I agree with you on it being a poor free agent class because of the extended RFA rules. I disagree on the "no effective way" comment. I think the answer there is collusion among the owners to not use an easy loophole with the wink wink understanding it either wouldn't be used or would be closed by a new CBA. Under prior CBA rules there was a giant hole available. Instead of a signing bonus put the guaranteed money in a roster bonus during the uncapped year. Then it doesn't get prorated or applied to a capped year. I think the owners just agreed not to do it.
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Old 03-26-2011   #189
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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I don't think any of those guys signed for less money. On Pace St. Louis matched the contract offer we made and 90% of the time that means a player stays with the team they are on. Bodden I believe they out bid us plus they had the present team advantage. Don't know on Givens. Do you have something that says he signed for less money? And why are we even talking Givens? Dude never started a full season in his career that ended five years ago.
Pace, by the way, is a great example of why it is smart to be cautious. He would have cost us a significant cap #, multiple high round picks (essentially costing us Mario and probably M. Schaub, when you think about it). Then, by 2008, when the rest of the team was improving towards respectability, he would be physically broken down and worthless.
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Old 03-26-2011   #190
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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I agree with you on it being a poor free agent class because of the extended RFA rules. I disagree on the "no effective way" comment. I think the answer there is collusion among the owners to not use an easy loophole with the wink wink understanding it either wouldn't be used or would be closed by a new CBA. Under prior CBA rules there was a giant hole available. Instead of a signing bonus put the guaranteed money in a roster bonus during the uncapped year. Then it doesn't get prorated or applied to a capped year. I think the owners just agreed not to do it.
I thought about mentioning this issue: While that can be done, it becomes a major problem handling the player midway through his contract. If the contract is too frontloaded, the agent and/or player will begin crying about being underpaid as they start seeing that his salary is nowhere near the salaries of other players at his position. (believe me, I understand the counter argument but it doesn't change the fact that those deals become real headaches and teams shy away from them as a result)
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Old 03-26-2011   #191
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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I thought about mentioning this issue: While that can be done, it becomes a major problem handling the player midway through his contract. If the contract is too frontloaded, the agent and/or player will begin crying about being underpaid as they start seeing that his salary is nowhere near the salaries of other players at his position. (believe me, I understand the counter argument but it doesn't change the fact that those deals become real headaches and teams shy away from them as a result)
I think the reason teams shy away from them normally are the cap ramifications and that they don't get to prorate the roster bonus. The salaries work out the same regardless of whether you call it a roster bonus or signing bonus and the player walks away from the signing with the same bank account regardless of the name. But most teams aren't walking around with a spare $15 mil in cap space. The contrary example is when the Vikings signed Antoine Winfield. They had $10+ mil in extra cap space from credits for likely to be earned bonus carry over so they paid all his guaranteed money as a roster bonus. Last year the cap wasn't a consideration but these roster bonus deals still didn't happen. I think that spells collusion by the teams.
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Old 03-26-2011   #192
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

[quote=Texan_Bill;1671284]Apparently I am most people!!

Someone that isn't as actually enlightened as you, "because, you are so much more enlightened than the rest of us amatuer fans", please fill us in!!

Share with us, your awesome wisdomness.. Share with us, how your awesomeness, would have had, not only brought a new Franchise to the City of Houston, but how YOU would be SOOOOOOO successfull....

I've got no wisdom

I'm not trying to be the smartest guy in the room.

I just pointed out that BoB could hire better people if the wanted too. He doesn't want too. So that is just an example of him not putting winning as his #1 priority.

The BoB brought football back to Houston thing is tired and old. He brought losing football back to Houston. If that's good enough for you then that's where we differ. I'm all about putting a winning team on the field and would rather not have a team. Than have a losing team.

When I called for Gary to be fired after the 2009 season you said lets see how the 2010 season play out. We all know how that turned out. Yet Gary still has a job and fans will be treated to atleast 2-3 seasons of ineptitude.

Using the enlightened and you're the best amatuer fan card is cheap. Look it's not my fault you're boy Gary stinks at his job and BoB for whatever reason wont cut him loose. Thereby wasting 2/3 more seasons.

I'm glad you're happy to just have a fooball team in Houston. If I could get to that place maybe I would be more accepting of the loser organization BoB has brought to this team.

Resond to the post not the poster. The previous post stated nothing but fact and you try to divert attention from the post by attacking me.Oldest trick in the book. You should've been a lawyer. LOL

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Old 03-26-2011   #193
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Steel, a few thoughts:

1. Other than dumping big contracts, using the uncapped year as a means to spend was ill-advised, because NFL contracts almost neccessarily ascend or stay flat each year. There is no effective way to sign a player to a 6 year $50 mil contract that won't count significantly against the cap in years 2, 3, 4, 5, etc... In other words, overspending in 2010 would have a dramatic and negative affect on 2011 and 2012, once the cap was reinstated. Since the owners had determined to take something back in the CBA negotiations, smart teams prepared for the likelihood that the 2011 cap would be smaller than the 2009 cap was.

2. I think they should have been better prepared for the 2010 season, certainly. That being said, it was the weakest FA class ever due to the rule changes stemming from the uncapped season.

3. As we have discussed, I agree they need to be aggressive in FA and I also believe they will this year. If not, consider me part of the "we need major organizational changes" group.

4. I was with you regarding letting OD walk. However, they ended up getting a very good deal for him. So, I'm happy to see him back. OD only costs about $4 million per year against the cap and knocked off about $8 million in cap space letting ADavis, Wilson, Pollard go.

You could've front loaded the contract so there wouldn't have been cap problems in the 2011 season. but you're right about 2010 being a crappy FA class. We are in agreement with the rest of the post.

The reason that the 2010 FA class was so poor that owners prepared for the uncapped yr. Some mght say it was a form of colusion
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Old 03-26-2011   #194
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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You could've front loaded the contract so there wouldn't have been cap problems in the 2011 season. but you're right about 2010 being a crappy FA class. We are in agreement with the rest of the post.

The reason that the 2011 FA class was so poor that owners prepared for the uncapped yr. Some mght say it was a form of colusion

I think you mean 2010. Not only was there collusion but McNair was in on it. McNair had made statements heading into the 2010 season that pretty well indicated he was going to make financial decisions with the CBA negotiations in mind, whether what the owners did fits the legal definition of collusion, I can not say... but, certainly, there was a coordinated effort of which McNair was a part of.

The 2011 FA class is the best one in many years. Given the fact they haven't been aggressive in FA in '08, '09, or '10 and given the results of '10, if they are unaggressive this eason in FA, I will agree with 90% of what anyone has said of Bob McNair.
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Old 03-26-2011   #195
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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I think you mean 2010. Not only was there collusion but McNair was in on it. McNair had made statements heading into the 2010 season that pretty well indicated he was going to make financial decisions with the CBA negotiations in mind, whether what the owners did fits the legal definition of collusion, I can not say... but, certainly, there was a coordinated effort of which McNair was a part of.

The 2011 FA class is the best one in many years. Given the fact they haven't been aggressive in FA in '08, '09, or '10 and given the results of '10, if they are unaggressive this eason in FA, I will agree with 90% of what anyone has said of Bob McNair.
Fixed

The Texans being agressive would be out of the morm.

You have many more inside sources than most.

I hope your sources are right.
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Old 03-26-2011   #196
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

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Fixed

The Texans being agressive would be out of the morm.

You have many more inside sources than most.

I hope your sources are right.
If you mean by "inside sources"- hope... then, yes, I do. I only have one source that has told me to expect a busy FA period and there is about 3 degrees of separation between him and McNair/Smith.
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Old 03-26-2011   #197
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

As you people can see (yes, I said "you people") this is the different between Bob McNair saying this and, let's say, Robert kraft saying it.

Kraft says it = yeah, let's not get some bum!

McNair = OMG!! he's terrible! stfu!

You don't want to pull an Oakland and get another Terdell Sands. You want to get yourself that guy YOU KNOW makes you better. Not some marginal guy that can't help you.

We can be the Bucs from the early-to-mid 90s and get another Alvin Harper-type free agent. (wasn't that good, but paid him big money anyway)

I understand you clowns are starving for a winner...hell me too...but the fact that this is a 10 page thread shows where we are as a fan base.
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Old 03-26-2011   #198
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaShark316 View Post
As you people can see (yes, I said "you people") this is the different between Bob McNair saying this and, let's say, Robert kraft saying it.

Kraft says it = yeah, let's not get some bum!

McNair = OMG!! he's terrible! stfu!

You don't want to pull an Oakland and get another Terdell Sands. You want to get yourself that guy YOU KNOW makes you better. Not some marginal guy that can't help you.

We can be the Bucs from the early-to-mid 90s and get another Alvin Harper-type free agent. (wasn't that good, but paid him big money anyway)

I understand you clowns are starving for a winner...hell me too...but the fact that this is a 10 page thread shows where we are as a fan base.
Aren't you the one who (several months ago) was ragging out fans and saying how we essentially affect the team with whether we root for it or not?

This post seems eerily similar...for example:

Quote:
but the fact that this is a 10 page thread shows where we are as a fan base.
What on God's green earth does that statement mean? I just don't even desire to take the time and sit here and try to come up with theories and have you reply to each one.

All I can figure is that you're unable to state a simple position and let it stand by itself, you'd rather throw in some caustic remarks to troll and get a flame war started.

Quote:
I understand you clowns are starving for a winner
What's clown'ish about wanting a winner? Do we amuse you? Like a clown? I amuse you. You think I'm funny? :goodfellas:
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Old 03-27-2011   #199
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

this sums up my thoughts on the Texan's organization

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Old 03-27-2011   #200
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Default Re: McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

The Texans being the 10th most profitable franchise in the world doesen't do squat for me. It fattens Bob's wallet but it dosen't translate to a successful franchise on the FIELD. Maybe let's settle on being in the top 20 or 25 and spend some of that money on building up this team.

Apparently we have one of the highest payrolls too...why? Take out Schaub, AJ, Mario....why are we paying the other players so much money? Take a team like Indy, they have 10 or 12 high-profile players and their payroll is less?!? We're simply overpaying the player we have in relation to their talent, and this team was put together by Smith and Kubiak. Poor job.
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