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Old 03-10-2011   #1
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Default Move Mario ?

This is a little outside the box, but what if Phillips were to move Mario Williams to Rush Linebacker? I have heard things from the FO and Phillips that this might be a possibility. He is big, fast, and a sack master. IMO he could cover out of the backfield receivers or the tight ends. There are others to play DE or we may draft one. That would also solve a couple of problems prior to draft so we were free to pick BPA at #11 or trade down for extra 1st or 2nd. I know I will probably get flamed from some people, but I would still like to see your input.
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Old 03-11-2011   #2
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

The idea is to move Mario around.

There will be times that he'll play 2-gap DE. There will be times he'll move outside the tackle and play with his hand down like a regular 4-3 DE. There will be times he'll play rush linebacker. There will be times he'll play a blitzing linebacker position where he chooses inside gaps and/or stunts with the other linebackers or down linemen.

But hopefully you won't see him out in coverage any more than we did with the old defense. He's got really good straightline speed but he doesn't have the skills or the type of athleticism necessary to cover guys coming out of the backfield in a man-on-man situation. He'll probably be OK in zones like he used to play when we zone blitzed. But he does not have the hips to turn and run with a TE or a RB.
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Old 03-11-2011   #3
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Would the real Mario please stand up & be the pass rusher the Texans thought he is when they drafted him #1 overall?

I don't care what scheme or position he's at, it should be the other team that needs to account for him.

Here is what might happen. Texans draft a 5 technique DE W/experience in a 3-4 all ready & let Mario own the edges.
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Old 03-11-2011   #4
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
The idea is to move Mario around.

There will be times that he'll play 2-gap DE. There will be times he'll move outside the tackle and play with his hand down like a regular 4-3 DE. There will be times he'll play rush linebacker. There will be times he'll play a blitzing linebacker position where he chooses inside gaps and/or stunts with the other linebackers or down linemen.

But hopefully you won't see him out in coverage any more than we did with the old defense. He's got really good straightline speed but he doesn't have the skills or the type of athleticism necessary to cover guys coming out of the backfield in a man-on-man situation. He'll probably be OK in zones like he used to play when we zone blitzed. But he does not have the hips to turn and run with a TE or a RB.

Here's the thing about the 3-4 and why people need not worry about Mario's productivity in it: imagine Antonio Smith at DE, Earl Mitchell at NT, and Mario at DE (in 5 technique).. The Texans are going to rush five, Cushing is the ILB on Mario's side and Barwin is the OLB on Mario's side... Let's say that it is the weakside. The Texans are going to rush ASmith, Mitchell, Mario... Cushing and Barwin are blitzing, while Jamison and Demeco are dropping into coverage. The Texans will have three dynamic pass rushers all coming right over the tackle. Somehow, the offensive protection is going to ask the guard to pick up one rusher, the tackle to take one rusher, and the running back to recognize and take the other rusher in one on one matchups. At this point, is it really a concern where Mario is lined up? The only concern will be whether those three guys can finish.. and, if the 6 guys in coverage can hold up for 2seconds. (That's one of a hundred variations that we will see next year).. Having those hybrid OLBs and also Cushing on the inside in a 3-4 scheme is going to allow all sorts of opportunities for everyone involved.

Wade coached a defense that netted 8.5 sacks for ILB Bradie James...not to mention what he was able to accomplish with guys like Bruce Smith, Chuck Smith, Patrick Kerney, Merriman, etc... Mario should have a great season playing for Wade and being motivated to play for his next contract. If only there was going to be a season in 2011.
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Old 03-11-2011   #5
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Great posts guys, I love this thread.

I'm one that thinks Mario is going to be pretty productive with Wade here and I'm not worried about the "3-4 DE tag". I'm really looking forward to seeing Mario line up at the different positions and have those various responsibilites that Dale and PN referenced.

What's been frustrating for me is two of my favorite legitimate prospects at #11 are J.J. Watt and Cameron Jordan, both DEs that would fit well in the 3-4 scheme. Would they see enough snaps? With the way we think Wade intends to utilize Mario's strengths and move him around, I think drafting a great prospect like Watt would only make that easier. Otherwise who plays the DE spot when Mario lines up as an OLB or is moved around?

We've got a chance to get some really good guys along the DL... let's finally finish up in the trenches and win there game in and game out.

Here's a link BullNation provided in another thread. I really enjoyed watching N.D. Kalu discuss the X's and O's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
I think this video will better explain where Mario will be playing in a 3-4 scheme....

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2011/01/r...graming_m.html
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Old 03-11-2011   #6
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Here's the thing about the 3-4 and why people need not worry about Mario's productivity in it: imagine Antonio Smith at DE, Earl Mitchell at NT, and Mario at DE (in 5 technique).. The Texans are going to rush five, Cushing is the ILB on Mario's side and Barwin is the OLB on Mario's side... Let's say that it is the weakside. The Texans are going to rush ASmith, Mitchell, Mario... Cushing and Barwin are blitzing, while Jamison and Demeco are dropping into coverage. The Texans will have three dynamic pass rushers all coming right over the tackle. Somehow, the offensive protection is going to ask the guard to pick up one rusher, the tackle to take one rusher, and the running back to recognize and take the other rusher in one on one matchups. At this point, is it really a concern where Mario is lined up? The only concern will be whether those three guys can finish.. and, if the 6 guys in coverage can hold up for 2seconds. (That's one of a hundred variations that we will see next year).. Having those hybrid OLBs and also Cushing on the inside in a 3-4 scheme is going to allow all sorts of opportunities for everyone involved.

Wade coached a defense that netted 8.5 sacks for ILB Bradie James...not to mention what he was able to accomplish with guys like Bruce Smith, Chuck Smith, Patrick Kerney, Merriman, etc... Mario should have a great season playing for Wade and being motivated to play for his next contract. If only there was going to be a season in 2011.
This by far is the best post I have ever read on TT. Can 100 of y'all rep him for me . I'm posting from my phone, and can't .
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Old 03-11-2011   #7
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

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This by far is the best post I have ever read on TT. Can 100 of y'all rep him for me . I'm posting from my phone, and can't .
I got him for you.
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Old 03-11-2011   #8
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

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I got him for you.
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Old 03-11-2011   #9
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Thanks fellas! I appreciate the input and it helped me understand what might happen to Mario next year. I know a little about football from watching it for 50 years, but I was a Bball man and never played in organized football, but I have watched and read almost everything some of you post. I recognize the names of the guys who responded and it is an honor that you appreciated my post.
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Old 03-11-2011   #10
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Here's the thing about the 3-4 and why people need not worry about Mario's productivity in it: imagine Antonio Smith at DE, Earl Mitchell at NT, and Mario at DE (in 5 technique).. The Texans are going to rush five, Cushing is the ILB on Mario's side and Barwin is the OLB on Mario's side... Let's say that it is the weakside. The Texans are going to rush ASmith, Mitchell, Mario... Cushing and Barwin are blitzing, while Jamison and Demeco are dropping into coverage. The Texans will have three dynamic pass rushers all coming right over the tackle. Somehow, the offensive protection is going to ask the guard to pick up one rusher, the tackle to take one rusher, and the running back to recognize and take the other rusher in one on one matchups. At this point, is it really a concern where Mario is lined up? The only concern will be whether those three guys can finish.. and, if the 6 guys in coverage can hold up for 2seconds. (That's one of a hundred variations that we will see next year).. Having those hybrid OLBs and also Cushing on the inside in a 3-4 scheme is going to allow all sorts of opportunities for everyone involved.

Wade coached a defense that netted 8.5 sacks for ILB Bradie James...not to mention what he was able to accomplish with guys like Bruce Smith, Chuck Smith, Patrick Kerney, Merriman, etc... Mario should have a great season playing for Wade and being motivated to play for his next contract. If only there was going to be a season in 2011.
Yes, it is a concern.

If we put him at OLB he will have to drop into coverage from time to time. That is a huge concern for me as the man is not a linebacker, he is a defensive lineman.

Just put him at DEnd. He is an extremely athletic 290 pounder, what is the confusion about how well he will do? He has the perfect size and strength for 3-4 DE. I truly don't understand why people are worried about the transition.

Actually, he is probably better suited for this type of position than his previous one. Atleast now we don't have to worry about him running himself out of almost every play (had to be coaching). He should have been used to push lineman back into the ball carrier and knock down balls at the LOS from day 1. This nonsense where he runs himself out of the play 75% of the time was purely idiotic and a waste of his size and skill set.

And why would we consider moving our best defensive lineman, who is 290 pounds by the way, to linebacker? I don't understand that at all. I can understand moving him around here or there to change his rush angle, but I hope we aren't intending on putting him at OLB full-time. Because he will fail in that situation.
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Old 03-11-2011   #11
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Yes, it is a concern.

If we put him at OLB he will have to drop into coverage from time to time. That is a huge concern for me as the man is not a linebacker, he is a defensive lineman.

Just put him at DEnd. He is an extremely athletic 290 pounder, what is the confusion about how well he will do? He has the perfect size and strength for 3-4 DE. I truly don't understand why people are worried about the transition.

Actually, he is probably better suited for this type of position than his previous one. Atleast now we don't have to worry about him running himself out of almost every play (had to be coaching). He should have been used to push lineman back into the ball carrier and knock down balls at the LOS from day 1. This nonsense where he runs himself out of the play 75% of the time was purely idiotic and a waste of his size and skill set.

And why would we consider moving our best defensive lineman, who is 290 pounds by the way, to linebacker? I don't understand that at all. I can understand moving him around here or there to change his rush angle, but I hope we aren't intending on putting him at OLB full-time. Because he will fail in that situation.
I don't think anyone suggested moving him there on a permanent basis rather move him around like we've seen with other young athletic d linemen in 34 defenses to give different looks each play (Ngata or however the hell you spell his name for instance). Basically doing the exact opposite as Rick Smith did here which I'm ok with for some reason...
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Old 03-11-2011   #12
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V3rm0nt3r View Post
I don't think anyone suggested moving him there on a permanent basis rather move him around like we've seen with other young athletic d linemen in 34 defenses to give different looks each play (Ngata or however the hell you spell his name for instance). Basically doing the exact opposite as Rick Smith did here which I'm ok with for some reason...
??

The suggestion to move him to OLB full-time has been made many times on this board. If you'd like to see where it was done in this thread, simply read the original post.

And opposite of who? Rick Smith is our General Manager. Did you mean Richard Smith, our D-coordinator from 2 years ago?
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Old 03-11-2011   #13
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krocket View Post
This is a little outside the box, but what if Phillips were to move Mario Williams to Rush Linebacker? I have heard things from the FO and Phillips that this might be a possibility. He is big, fast, and a sack master. IMO he could cover out of the backfield receivers or the tight ends. There are others to play DE or we may draft one. That would also solve a couple of problems prior to draft so we were free to pick BPA at #11 or trade down for extra 1st or 2nd. I know I will probably get flamed from some people, but I would still like to see your input.
From Phillips' playbook when he was with the Falcons, the OLBs almost never run with a TE or receiver.

There's one exception, in what they call a Cover 5, which is a 5-underneath man coverage with 2-deep safety against a standard set (2 backs, 2 receivers, and 1 TE.)
In this coverage, the 2 CBs run with the 2 WRs, the 2 ILBs run with the 2 backs,
the SAM will lock on the TE; however, both safeties have specific instruction to help the LBs first and foremost.
(There's another coverage called Cover One Alley, which is almost the same as the above coverage, I won't bother going into the detail.)
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Old 03-12-2011   #14
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
??

The suggestion to move him to OLB full-time has been made many times on this board. If you'd like to see where it was done in this thread, simply read the original post.

And opposite of who? Rick Smith is our General Manager. Did you mean Richard Smith, our D-coordinator from 2 years ago?
My bad. You are totally right.

Yeah I meant Richard. Again, you are totally right.
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Old 03-12-2011   #15
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

I keep hearing about Mario as a LB. Please God! NO!. Look, he's fast. But that's it. He lacks the ability to change direction and him in any sort of coverage situation is a nightmare IMHO. Maybe put him there for a play or two a half but nothing more, it literally scares me. When he's playing the DE position he has two places to go... down the line or in the backfield. What in the hell are we going to do when he's called on to cover a TE or a RB coming out of the backfield?

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Old 03-13-2011   #16
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

I seriously doubt Mario will get a whole bunch of snaps at OLB...

He will probably be moved a long the D-line, but I doubt he be in the normal rotation at LB...
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Old 03-13-2011   #17
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Here's the thing about the 3-4 and why people need not worry about Mario's productivity in it: imagine Antonio Smith at DE, Earl Mitchell at NT, and Mario at DE (in 5 technique).. The Texans are going to rush five, Cushing is the ILB on Mario's side and Barwin is the OLB on Mario's side... Let's say that it is the weakside. The Texans are going to rush ASmith, Mitchell, Mario... Cushing and Barwin are blitzing, while Jamison and Demeco are dropping into coverage. The Texans will have three dynamic pass rushers all coming right over the tackle. Somehow, the offensive protection is going to ask the guard to pick up one rusher, the tackle to take one rusher, and the running back to recognize and take the other rusher in one on one matchups.
This situation sounds good; however, from the looks I see so far, Cushing will probably play strong side ILB (Mike) where he will meet an O-lineman more often than the Mo (weak side ILB).

I could be wrong, but I think Wade is more likely to play Cusing there than Demeco.

From his playbook, I can see some 6-man blitz (Jet Blitz, the Smoke) and some 5-man zone dog (the Mo Loop, the Mo Exit) that would involve the 3 guys on the weak side as you wish for.
But, again, I think it will involve Demeco.

There are other pass rush scheme on the strong side as well for the Mike.
And we might see the trio (Mario, Barwin, and Cushing) there.
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Old 03-13-2011   #18
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
I keep hearing about Mario as a LB. Please God! NO!. Look, he's fast. But that's it. He lacks the ability to change direction and him in any sort of coverage situation is a nightmare IMHO. Maybe put him there for a play or two a half but nothing more, it literally scares me. When he's playing the DE position he has two places to go... down the line or in the backfield. What in the hell are we going to do when he's called on to cover a TE or a RB coming out of the backfield?

Mike
Mario has already played OLB some when we go to the 3-4 look (which is the same as Wade's.)
And when we are in the 4-3, Mario mostly lined up mostly anywhere from 2-yds outside the OT, as a 9-tech or wider, which are some of the positions Wade's OLB can be found in.
Mario played mostly with his hand down in these situations, but that was the only difference. As far as the responsibilities are concerned scheme-wise, he was doing the same thing the 3-4 OLB was asked to do in Wade's scheme.
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Old 03-13-2011   #19
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Default Re: Move Mario ?

Here's something very telling straight from the horse mouth.
This was when the Packers were getting ready to switch to a 3-4

Jan 20-2009
Mobile, Ala. - General manager Ted Thompson of the Green Bay Packers was chatting with Dallas Cowboys coach Wade Phillips on Tuesday at Senior Bowl practice when Thompson was asked about adapting his personnel to the 3-4 defensive scheme coordinator Dom Capers will be bringing to the team.

"It's really not that big a deal," Thompson said.

Phillips then tapped him on the shoulder.

"Tell him this: The weak-side linebacker, instead of being like this," Phillips said as he put one hand on the ground to get into a three-point stance, "is like this."

Phillips then stood up straight.

"There you have it," Phillips said.

...
That is, you just take the weakside DE lining up in a 3-pt stance, ask him to take his hand off the ground and stand up straight.
He automatically becomes the WILL in Wade's scheme.
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Old 03-13-2011   #20
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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Mario has already played OLB some when we go to the 3-4 look (which is the same as Wade's.)
And when we are in the 4-3, Mario mostly lined up mostly anywhere from 2-yds outside the OT, as a 9-tech or wider, which are some of the positions Wade's OLB can be found in.
Mario played mostly with his hand down in these situations, but that was the only difference. As far as the responsibilities are concerned scheme-wise, he was doing the same thing the 3-4 OLB was asked to do in Wade's scheme.
And we see how that worked out. A relatively slow rush from the outside that usually got pushed out of the play. Why would we want to continue that?

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