Cam Newton

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

there is a difference between making College throws vs Pro throws into tight windows 15-20 yards in 3 seconds or less. Most of Cam's success to support those numbers came when he extended plays, created time as needed, then delivered when WR came open. its a different thing & that is what he struggled with @ the combine. It was unwise for him to throw @ the combine but that was induced by his media day extravaganza he created in the first place. Suggests to me that he is a true diva which is not something most teams (coaches) really want to deal with regardless how well he looks in practice or in precious game film

Also, since you claim this point, can you bring up some examples in which you didn't see him being able to do this???

I've seen him done that!
And that's what I mean by getting the ball out on time to the receiver.

This is what his coach had to say:
Q: What are his strengths?
A: "He can throw the football on time. He's very good at that..."

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Also, since you claim this point, can you bring up some examples in which you didn't see him being able to do this???

I am just going to throw in there is a difference between college and the pros. VY was 65 % in his last year in college and then 51.5% his first year in the pros. Five years in he is 57.9 overall.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

I am just going to throw in there is a difference between college and the pros. VY was 65 % in his last year in college and then 51.5% his first year in the pros. Five years in he is 57.9 overall.

Leinart was also in the low to mid 50s range in his first 3 years with the Cards.

And I has been giving a lot of reason why!

[Hagar]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Andy Reid and the Eagles did a pretty good job with Vick this year, I'm sure you'd agree with that.

I'd agree. The Eagles have done the best job of fitting thier system to an athletic QB then either the Titans or Falcons. I'd also say that Vick made more adjustments to his game to fit into the Eagles system now that he's older and had football taken away from him.

[76Texan]

Former Cowboys personnel man Gil Brandt was a draft guru even before other NFL teams had true draft gurus.

So we take his accrued experience seriously, and his experience says that talent always wins out in the draft. And Brandt thinks Auburn quarterback Cam Newton is the most talented player available.

“It would shock me . . . if he’s not the first player picked,” Brandt told the Forth Worth Star-Telegram on Monday. “If I was drafting and I had Carolina’s [No. 1] pick, I’d feel really good about who I was getting as far as ability. I just hope he realizes how hard he needs to work.”




http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-first-overall

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...carolina-visit

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Former Cowboys personnel man Gil Brandt was a draft guru even before other NFL teams had true draft gurus.

So we take his accrued experience seriously, and his experience says that talent always wins out in the draft. And Brandt thinks Auburn quarterback Cam Newton is the most talented player available.

“It would shock me . . . if he’s not the first player picked,” Brandt told the Forth Worth Star-Telegram on Monday. “If I was drafting and I had Carolina’s [No. 1] pick, I’d feel really good about who I was getting as far as ability. I just hope he realizes how hard he needs to work.”




http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-first-overall

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...carolina-visit

there in lies the rub & you of all people Brandt should know not to hope.

what I saw against a overwhelmed & undersized Oregon was a QB who lost his legs in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The promotions, cross country tours & personal appearances finally caught up with him on the media circuit. no thanks, I'm not buying in.

[Wolf6151]

Cam Newton has all the physical talents but he seems to be more intent on becoming a media star than on being a star QB. Jamarcus Russell, Michael Vick the early years, and VY part 2.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

there in lies the rub & you of all people Brandt should know not to hope.what I saw against a overwhelmed & undersized Oregon was a QB who lost his legs in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The promotions, cross country tours & personal appearances finally caught up with him on the media circuit. no thanks, I'm not buying in.

This is the bolded part where Brandt puts his disclaimer, that no matter what god-talent-given you have, you still need to work hard.

What I saw was a guy who went through a lot of difficulties to win a NJCAA championship, then a NCAA championship.
That was a different path from a Matt Leinart or David Carr, who get used to have a silver spoon in his mouth.

Those were facts.

I'm not in the business of judging people or character.
I'm not "predicting" the guy to go first in the draft.
I can only see what I saw on the field:
Newton is the best QB draft prospect this year based on talent and everything that he brings onto the field.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

there is a difference between making College throws vs Pro throws into tight windows 15-20 yards in 3 seconds or less. Most of Cam's success to support those numbers came when he extended plays, created time as needed, then delivered when WR came open. its a different thing & that is what he struggled with @ the combine. It was unwise for him to throw @ the combine but that was induced by his media day extravaganza he created in the first place. Suggests to me that he is a true diva which is not something most teams (coaches) really want to deal with regardless how well he looks in practice or in precious game film

Once more, do you have evidence to support this claim that Newton was unable to do this?

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

what I saw against a overwhelmed & undersized Oregon was a QB who lost his legs in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The promotions, cross country tours & personal appearances finally caught up with him on the media circuit. no thanks, I'm not buying in.

I don't know if you've read the posts that I analyzed the championship game.
It should have been a blow out already in the first half.

Except the Oregon defense was playing very, very well the whole game while the Auburn skill players were dropping a fews.

This is the complete opposite of the Insight Bowl, wherein Gabbert saw a softer zone than the Texans' even when Iowa dropped into a 5-3 zone.
When Gabbert didn't have a huge ocean to drop his rock into, his receivers (including the TE in title only) would bail him out time and again.

You claim that you saw a QB who lost his leg in the 4th, how about you analyze the 4th quarter for us spectator.
(The devil is in the minuscule details, I must forewarn.)
I don't enjoy putting people in a spot, so let me just spring my observations.
When I did the partial analysis in that game, I kinda said I don't need to finish the whole game (it's more or less the same, there was no need);
I kinda concluded that for the whole game, Newton's game was really all you can ask for: hardly any mistakes, no major mistake, timely plays here and there; he did pretty much everything except catching the ball himself.
I honestly do not understand how anybody can find anything near to a fault in his performance the whole game through.

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by Hagar

Still Vince has a 26-13 won loss record, which is pretty good.

VY's win/loss record has so much more to do with the general makeup of that teams defense that it's not even funny. That's the same team Kerry Collins basically lead to a 13-3 season record.

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

The mistake that people normally thought of Newton is that he ran a spread offense. (Read my above post.)
That would be Gabbert's cup of tea.
There's nothing wrong with the spread offense anyway; just look at Brady and the Patriots.
Manning and the Colts also employ the spread a lot.

When you say that Newton has accuracy problem, it makes me cringe.
For a guy that is "inaccurate" his completion pct of 66% plus is higher than other guys who throw more short passes (Gabbert, for example, was at 63.37%).
(It was probably his showing at the combine that led you to such a misguided conclusion.)

Yes, just look at his throws at the combine. There have been plenty of QB's who could rock decent completion percentages in college but not in the pro game. I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I'm not saying Newton is going to be terrible as a pro and will amount to nothing, I am saying that Newton has a lot of ****ing flaws for a #1 overall pick to have.

Again, the college game and the pro game are different speeds much less different games in nuance and such. Taking a guy that high who made most of his money with his feet and shaking off pass rushers on the college level is inviting the worst sorts of disasters to befall your team. First round? Sure I'd take a flyer on the guy, he did a hell of a lot in college and you could probably work with him to make him serviceable and maybe even good. But at #1 you need a guy who can probably step in and start, and right now, Newton looks to be about the least NFL-ready QB in this draft.

[Hagar]

Originally Posted by b0ng

VY's win/loss record has so much more to do with the general makeup of that teams defense that it's not even funny. That's the same team Kerry Collins basically lead to a 13-3 season record.

Oh, this is like a sound clip by a reporter who only looks at one side of the issue. Yes, Kerry went 13-3 in 2008, then went 0-6 in 2009. After which VY brought the team back with what record??? I don't think I'd hang my hat on Kerry Collin's reputation.

Do I think VY is an NFL caliber QB? No, he's got to grow up first. But to say this man doesn't have talent, is not exactly correct either. Let's face it, he's playing for Bud Adams who's main reason for drafting him was to get back at Houston (speculation of course, but I think I'm right).

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Yes, just look at his throws at the combine. There have been plenty of QB's who could rock decent completion percentages in college but not in the pro game. I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I'm not saying Newton is going to be terrible as a pro and will amount to nothing, I am saying that Newton has a lot of ****ing flaws for a #1 overall pick to have.

Again, the college game and the pro game are different speeds much less different games in nuance and such. Taking a guy that high who made most of his money with his feet and shaking off pass rushers on the college level is inviting the worst sorts of disasters to befall your team. First round? Sure I'd take a flyer on the guy, he did a hell of a lot in college and you could probably work with him to make him serviceable and maybe even good. But at #1 you need a guy who can probably step in and start, and right now, Newton looks to be about the least NFL-ready QB in this draft.

I don't want to misinterpret what you want to say.
You are concerned that he hasn't been under center much, which is a legitimate concern if your team run a pro set.
But when you said that, you forgot about guys like Gabbert who has never been under center (correct me if I'm wrong).

I have repeated a few times that I am not talking about the number one prospect overall in the draft (because I don't study the top-rated defensive guys closely - to me that means at least seven games watched, isolating on the subject; learning about the oppositions that the guy faces; etc.)

Here, I'm only talking about who I think is the number one QB prospect in this draft; therefore, it is easy for me to choose Newton over Gabbert (and the rest.)

I've posted in a different thread that in the 3-4 snaps per game that Newton was under center, I had seen him perform all the tasks a pro-set QB is required to perform, including play action fake drop back pass, seven-step drop back pass, fake reverse then pass, play action fake then roll out pass, besides handing the ball off to the RB in a one-back or two back set.
Not one single mishap in those intances (correct me if I missed any of his mistake in this department.)

In the running game, Newton is more ready to adapt to the pro game (than Gabbert for example) since his offense operates with 2 and even 3 backs quite often.
It's a unique system in which there is an I-formation (among others) in their running game.
In other words, Newton already understands the concept of playing with a FB and a true TE (unlike some other QBs in this draft, including Gabbert who doesn't know what a FB nor a TE is.)
So when you said Newton is the least-NFL-ready QB, I have to strongly disagree, sorry!

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

there in lies the rub & you of all people Brandt should know not to hope.

what I saw against a overwhelmed & undersized Oregon was a QB who lost his legs in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The promotions, cross country tours & personal appearances finally caught up with him on the media circuit. no thanks, I'm not buying in.

Here's what a "overwhelmed and undersized Oregon defense" does for you.

Before even attempting a pass, Newton was sacked twice (quickly) and had to pull up and run 5 times (because pressure was getting super hot).

The numbers that I gathered here may be incorrect, but any miscount only works against Newton.

Newton was 20-35 for the game (57%, which is under his norm) and 265 yards (7.6 yd per attempt, which is still good).

What you may not realize is that out of the 15 attempts that he didn't connect, I counted something like 13 when he was under pressure, mostly heavy, or enough to force him to throw a hair early, scramble and try to complete a pass, or simply just throw the ball away.
The other 3 were dropped passes (including the one in the end zone where the intended receiver should have turned around once he got into the end zone to look for the pass when he was wide open, but for whatever reason kept going toward the side line; and the one in which the receiver didn't pay attention to where he was along the side line - Newton was under some pressure on this one also.)

There were at least 4 occasions where Newton somehow completed the pass with heavy heavy pressure boring down on him.

There were at least 5 completed short passes in which the pressure was coming. You're talking about 1-1/2 second something like that. Without a quick release, and a couple of quick decisions, these would have resulted in incompletions as well.

It doesn't matter whether it was the SEC or the NFL or Pee Wee league, a QB under pressure is always less effective just the same.

Again, as I've said, this is the exact opposite of what Gabbert saw in the Insight Bowl or Leinart saw in the Rose Bowl (and other games for both of them).

And it's only the beginning of why I believe Newton is more advance than most QBs in the draft since the Texans organization first started.
I like Sam Bradford as well, but I am not sure (that I can recall) Bradford perform as well under constant pressure throughout the whole game like that

[76Texan]

Now, I do admit here there's a plus but also a minus, the fact that he was able to avoid pressure.

The minus is we don't know how he will stand up to the hits in the NFL.
The plus is that he very well could continue to know how to apply himself to the situation, that is to avoid getting hit in the first place.
And this could prolong his career longer than those who's too willing to stand in the pocket to make a play (like Kolb when he was at UH and also with the Eagles.)

[Texecutioner]

Here is one of the latest write ups on Cam Newton from Pro football Weekly which goes right along with what I described my opinions of the guy when I started the thread. Interesting take though and I stand pat that an early Cam Newton pick will be a huge mistake. Buyer Beware is all over Cam Newton.

Read Below.



Under "negatives" for Newton, Nawrocki writes, "Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...?urn=nfl-wp657

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Here is one of the latest write ups on Cam Newton from Pro football Weekly which goes right along with what I described my opinions of the guy when I started the thread. Interesting take though and I stand pat that an early Cam Newton pick will be a huge mistake. Buyer Beware is all over Cam Newton.

Read Below.



Under "negatives" for Newton, Nawrocki writes, "Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...?urn=nfl-wp657

He obviously has it in for the guy for whatever reason. Some of it is understandable, but i can't see Auburn being as successful as they were if the bolded was true. Teams typically come apart if that stuff is going on..Auburn did nothing but circle the wagons when all that crap was swirling around him.

I don't think he'll be all that good but my opinion of him is based purely off of his game & how it's going to translate to the NFL. This dude just did a pyschoanalysis on him..

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

He obviously has it in for the guy for whatever reason. Some of it is understandable, but i can't see Auburn being as successful as they were if the bolded was true. Teams typically come apart if that stuff is going on..Auburn did nothing but circle the wagons when all that crap was swirling around him.

I don't think he'll be all that good but my opinion of him is based purely off of his game & how it's going to translate to the NFL. This dude just did a pyschoanalysis on him..

Nawrocki is one of the most respected scouts out there, so his word does carry some weight.

[kiwitexansfan]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

He obviously has it in for the guy for whatever reason.

I think you meant to say, He obviously has it in for the guy for racists reasons.

You are Warren Moon aren't you?