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Old 02-28-2011   #41
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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this post is dripping with awesomeness.
Seconded - I'd rep em, but gotta spread em. Nice one, TK.
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Old 02-28-2011   #42
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I have been, and still am, very pleased with the team Kubiak has put together. I like how he was able to keep them on the same page & keep the locker room together.

His problem is game management, building on momentum & slowing the tide.

Let me be clear, I don't think Kubiak should still be the head coach of the Houston Texans.

But I believe this team can make a big jump in 2011 (if there is a 2011) & I think that is what BoB is shooting for.
Would it be accurate, if I boiled this post down to:

"Kubiak, I REAAALLLLYYYY wanna believe you're "The Coach" for the
Texans, so DON'T 'F-IT-UP in 2011!"
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Old 02-28-2011   #43
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I'll give you an example of why this is how the system has to be (although the O and D components of the example are reversed). So it is the 2006 draft. The team needs rebuilding on both sides of the ball. It comes to the 2nd round pick and the OC really likes a WR they have graded as a early 2nd round pick. But the Texans have a mid-first round grade on DeMeco Ryans and he is available at their pick which they never expected. Just like they did then, the best choice is to sprint to the podium, take DeMeco and tell the OC he needs to look at his options for a WR that may be available later. So the Texans end up with multiple pro-bowler DeMeco instead of Chad Jackson taken three picks later by the uber smart Patriots and get his career 171 yards receiving (and release two years later). That's smart drafting, not being dysfunctional.

Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.
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Old 02-28-2011   #44
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.
I know hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but in each of those drafts, what BPA did they pass on that wasn't a need?
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Old 02-28-2011   #45
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need
Underachieving and reach are two very different things. For example I saw lots, maybe even a majority of mocks in 2007, that had Okoye being taken before our pick. That isn't a reach. Brown yes was typically projected lower but not much and as it turns out the team right behind us was willing to make the same reach. Cushing was definitely not a reach and what is wrong with picking a non-reach person at a position of need? Jackson maybe a little but not by more than a few spots and he was definitely in the discussion before the draft - it isn't like he came out of nowhere.

Things definitely could have worked out better.
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Old 02-28-2011   #46
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Would it be accurate, if I boiled this post down to:

"Kubiak, I REAAALLLLYYYY wanna believe you're "The Coach" for the
Texans, so DON'T 'F-IT-UP in 2011!"
Absolutely not. I said what I meant. But it is what it is. I'd rather spend my time rooting for my team, than crying over spilled milk. If Bob's master plan doesn't work, I won't be saying I told you so. If it does, I won't be saying I told you so. I'll be looking towards 2012 with the same skepticism as you.
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Old 02-28-2011   #47
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Underachieving and reach are two very different things. For example I saw lots, maybe even a majority of mocks in 2007, that had Okoye being taken before our pick. That isn't a reach. Brown yes was typically projected lower but not much and as it turns out the team right behind us was willing to make the same reach. Cushing was definitely not a reach and what is wrong with picking a non-reach person at a position of need? Jackson maybe a little but not by more than a few spots and he was definitely in the discussion before the draft - it isn't like he came out of nowhere.

Things definitely could have worked out better.
Like you said, I don't think Okoye was a reach, he was supposed to have gone higher.

Brown, I don't know that he was a reach, Kubiak thought he was pretty lucky to have an opportunity to get him where we did. Smith thought it would have been rolling the dice to trade down again, and try to get Brown lower. They might have overevalued Brown, but they clearly felt he was a value pick where they got him.

& he's turning out to be a fine LT anyway.... so far, it looks as though they got the Brown pick right.

Cushing was not a reach.

KJac.... they had him rated higher than two CBs that weren't even supposed to be there. Maybe another case of over-valuing, but that remains to be seen, but still doesn't fit the definition of reach in my book.

Poor drafting.... maybe, but not because they are reaching.
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Old 02-28-2011   #48
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.

Okoye & Cushing certainly weren't reaches they went right about where everyone thought they'd go. Brown & Jackson yes techinically were "reaches" in the sense of the word but not by much..maybe a few slots ahead of where they would've gone anyway. The year brown was drafted, there was a tremendous run on LT's & if we were going to get any of the tackles that were worth a damn, we had to go ahead & get him....as of this moment, it doesn't appear that it has been a bad pick.

jackson had a rough rookie year. The 2nd year is supposed to be when players make the biggest jump so we'll see on him as he'll finally get some quality coaching & has a year under his belt.
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Old 02-28-2011   #49
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Underachieving and reach are two very different things. For example I saw lots, maybe even a majority of mocks in 2007, that had Okoye being taken before our pick. That isn't a reach.
He was rated high, but there were also quite a few reports saying he'd be a "project player" until he matured enough to start and make an impact (mainly due to his age, iirc).

The problem with the Texans picking him is that we needed immediate impact on our line. So no, not a reach like a 3rd rounder getting picked in the first, but perhaps a 'reach' for a team that doesn't have the staff to consistently develop players over time. Obviously not the usual definition of reach as it pertains to the NFL draft, tho'.

I doubt we will see Wade draft players that have a 2-3 year development cycle. He's going to need some players that can start in 2011 and play well.
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Old 02-28-2011   #50
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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He was rated high, but there were also quite a few reports saying he'd be a "project player" until he matured enough to start and make an impact (mainly due to his age, iirc).
I have no problem if someone wants to criticize Okoye as a project. I only quibbled with reach.
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Old 02-28-2011   #51
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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I have no problem if someone wants to criticize Okoye as a project. I only quibbled with reach.
I hear ya' (and agree).

I've softened my tone about Amobi over the years. It will be interesting to see what they do with him in Wade's defense, if he's even a fit for a 3-4.
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Old 02-28-2011   #52
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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It will be interesting to see what they do with him in Wade's defense, if he's even a fit for a 3-4.
I think he is going to be an excellent rotation DE spelling both Mario and Smith. I know that isn't what you want out of your 1st round picks but it is what he seems best suited for in this transition and sometimes those decisions just have to get made.
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Old 02-28-2011   #53
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.
Steel, I'm inclined to agree that their draft strategy in the 1st round has been flawed.

However, I don't think any of those picks(with the possible exception of Jackson), are examples of reaching. One could argue Brown was a reach, but it has been well-documented that he was coveted by the Chargers (who had the next pick)... Also, Brown is a better tackle than some of the tackles taken before him.

that being said, concentrating on drafting a 1st rounder that is an immediate plug and play is a big mistake, IMO... Either a team is assembled well enough to compete with other elite teams so that a targeted FA in an area of need is justified, or, the team is too far away... in which case, a rookie plugged into a position of need is not going to send the team over the top. Teams that don't draft for need, do much better. If the Texans were determined to draft for certain positions, the appropriate thing to do is to trade down, accumulating the position and extra picks to be spent on best available talent. I think the Texans are finally ready to use free agency to fill the needs. Unfortunatlely, I fear they will end up drafting for need (like they have done) once again in the first round now that the free agency period is likely to be AFTER the draft. We can't catch a freakin' break!
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Old 02-28-2011   #54
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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I think he is going to be an excellent rotation DE spelling both Mario and Smith. I know that isn't what you want out of your 1st round picks but it is what he seems best suited for in this transition and sometimes those decisions just have to get made.
IMHO - that's been part of the problem. Not necessarily playing the Best player just due to draft status. If a guy isn't ready yet, he just isn't ready - I don't care if he's a #1 overall. Sit him, let him learn, let him play in a rotation or special situations. Let the ghost of HWSNBN haunt you forever for 'forcing' a guy into the lineup early.

My take:

2007- Okoye - not technically a reach, but VERY raw. Zero chance of immediate impact.

2008 - Brown- reached for need - Agreed. The guys we wanted were gone and we NEEDED a big LT. He's worked out, but at the time, he was a reach.

2009 - Cush - Cush/Matthews was the call - no reach, BPA.

2010 - Jackson - reached for need - Agreed. The Texans weren't the only ones who had him graded as highly, but they were outnumbered by the ones that didn't.
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Old 02-28-2011   #55
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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IMHO - that's been part of the problem. Not necessarily playing the Best player just due to draft status. If a guy isn't ready yet, he just isn't ready - I don't care if he's a #1 overall. Sit him, let him learn, let him play in a rotation or special situations. Let the ghost of HWSNBN haunt you forever for 'forcing' a guy into the lineup early.

My take:

2007- Okoye - not technically a reach, but VERY raw. Zero chance of immediate impact.

2008 - Brown- reached for need - Agreed. The guys we wanted were gone and we NEEDED a big LT. He's worked out, but at the time, he was a reach.

2009 - Cush - Cush/Matthews was the call - no reach, BPA.

2010 - Jackson - reached for need - Agreed. The Texans weren't the only ones who had him graded as highly, but they were outnumbered by the ones that didn't.
And I'll vote the other way. For me, a reach is when you draft a guy who'll be there at your next pick. None of these guys would have been there at our next pick.

Most mock drafts had Okoye going long before our pick. By all accounts, Brown was going to be gone to the Chargers with the next pick. Cush was obviously not a reach. And lots of other teams with CB needs had Jackson picked highly. He wasn't the CB I expected us to take but the CB I expected us to take wasn't even the next CB taken.

Okoye and Jackson may not turn out to be good picks in the long run but given the information available to us, they weren't total incompetence picks, either.
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Old 02-28-2011   #56
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need
Though a disappointment, Okoye was highly rated and not a reach. And
Kareem was also rated by many including Mike Mayock as a worthy first-rounder.
Brown was a definite reach, and there was a big, really very big red flag on Cushing for which the usually very risk-aversive and conservative Texans inexplicably ignored (they had to see it, eveybody else did !). And I would hardly say he "appears to have worked out" ?
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Old 03-01-2011   #57
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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I know hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but in each of those drafts, what BPA did they pass on that wasn't a need?
2007- I wanted Willis over OkOye, even though Ryans was drafted the yr before. Willis was the BPA at that time. IMHO Turns out Revis should've been the pick.

2008 I was OK with the Brown pick. Because it was a HOF Alex Gibbs pick and something needed to be done about the terrible LT play that had plagued this franchise since its inception. Browns play has been about what I expected. He's young and still has plenty of room for improvement.

2009-Cushing, Didn't have a problem with the Cushing pick. Even though I wanted Matthews.

2010 Jackson, terrible pick, I wanted them to beef the OL even more and draft Iupati. (He was gone) But Bulaga would've been my choice. There wasn't much difference between Jackson,McCourty or Wilson as 1st rds. Or Ghee,Murphy and Verner in rd 3/5. I felt this way at the time.

My top choices for the 2010 draft were R.Matthews,Iupati and Bulaga.

I feel the same way about the 2011 draft. If Miller/Peterson aren't there. I hope they dont reach for Amukamara. He's not that much different than A.Williams or Davon House. Who could be drafted late 1st early 2nd rd. My choices for the Texans if they cant trade down (Really hope they can) are Julio Jones,Cam Jordan or Muhammed Wilkerson at #11.

Wilkerson is a big fast guy that can play NT or DE. He weighs 315 lbs and has the frame to put on plenty of more LBS. He also has 35' in arm length. (Longest of any DT at the combine) and bench pressed 27 times. Which is alot harder to do than guys with short arms.

None of the 1st rd OLB's are any better than the 2nd/3rd guys. Reed/Moch/Carter. IMHO I hope they dont reach for a OLB in the 1st rd.
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Old 03-01-2011   #58
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
I know hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but in each of those drafts, what BPA did they pass on that wasn't a need?

2007 - Easy. Passed on Patrick Willis, Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, and Michael Griffin. All huge needs outside of Willis, who is a top 3 MLB in the league now. Okoye was a horrible pick. Obviously a 2nd rd talent who flew up draft boards because he was 19 yrs old and did well at the combine.

2008 - Antoine Cason or Curtis Lofton. We needed a CB and Cason had a tremendous college career. Lofton would be a great ILB in a 3-4, but again who knew we'd be running a 3-4 a few years later. Brown was a reach, but not a bad pick.

2009 - Cushing was a good pick and although hindsight tells you Clay Matthews, no way you could have known that at the time.

2010 - We passed on Dez Bryant. We also took Jackson over McCourty, who was considered the better prospect by everyone else.
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Old 03-01-2011   #59
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
2007- I wanted Willis over OkOye
Sure there was plenty of debate about that. But you will admit many mocks had one or both of them being gone when the Texans picked and Okoye was the first of the two off the board in many mocks. Didn't get the best player available but they didn't reach for Okoye. Heck lots of teams the year before regretted not taking DeMeco.

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If Miller/Peterson aren't there. I hope they dont reach for Amukamara.
Not arguing the merits of these particular guys, just with the terminology. Amuk isn't even expected to be available at #11 by lots of folks. That isn't a reach.
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Old 03-01-2011   #60
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Default Re: Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.
What's your definition of reach? You're arbitrarily labeling every pick a reach, regardless of circumstance.
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