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Old 02-24-2011   #21
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Originally Posted by Doppelganger View Post
Dumervill excelled in the 4-3 as a DE.
2007 :as a rookie, 8.5 sacks in 13 games.(Denver in 4-3)
2008: second year player, 12.5 sacks in 16 games (Denver in 4-3)
2009: Third year, 5 sacks in 16 games, (first year in 3-4)
2010: Fourth year, 17 sacks in 16 games (second year in 3-4).

Dumervill is a football player. He excels in the 4-3 as a DE and the 3-4 as an OLB.
Dumervil is great at getting sacks but that isn't the only thing a 4-3 DE has to do. He isn't near the complete DE Mario is hence his having almost half as many tackles.

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I'm not sure I would do the deal. One thing to think about, though, is the contract situation. Mario has one year left on his deal. Elvis has 5, I think. What is most significant about that is the trading team is responsible for the signing bonus figure on the salary cap... So, while trading Mario away would cost the Texans about a $3 million hit on the cap for 2011, none of Dumervil's signing bonus would ever count against the Texans cap. Therefore, his rather large contract would turn into a heck of a bargain because the Texans would only owe him his actual yearly salaries through 2015... In that respect, it would be an unbelievable deal...

actually, I just talked myself into it. I wish it wasn't make-believe, because the Texans would be foolish not to do it!
The $3 mil is chicken feed. The major guarantee in Dumervil's contract is the salaries for the first three years, two now, because they are fully guaranteed. And the contract is set up as a hand grenade with the salaries front loaded. I just don't like the situation. Either you are guaranteeing a huge salary next year of $14 mil ($12 mil the next year) and he gets injured or if he stays healthy and plays well he is not playing out a contract that pays him millions less each year.
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Old 02-24-2011   #22
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

my issue with this proposed trade is that we'd be giving up a complete player for a specialist - at potentially the same position. i've been saying it for a couple years now that i think mario will actually perform better inside as a 3-4 defensive end. in my opinion mario has much more of richard seymore's skillset than he does a demarcus ware or even julius peppers - but he has enough of all that he can play the end position, outside DE in a nickel, as well as a stand up rusher. he can do all at a very high level while with dumerville you'd get a specialist.

it's a LOT easier to find and draft specialists than it is to get an anchor ... and easier to get those specialists (as well as the most out of them) when you already have an anchor in place. there's no way i'd make this move atleast until i see what barwin and/or draft pick do when playing beside mario - trading assets for someone like dumerville might be completely unnecessary.
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Old 02-24-2011   #23
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Dumervil is great at getting sacks but that isn't the only thing a 4-3 DE has to do. He isn't near the complete DE Mario is hence his having almost half as many tackles.



The $3 mil is chicken feed. The major guarantee in Dumervil's contract is the salaries for the first three years, two now, because they are fully guaranteed. And the contract is set up as a hand grenade with the salaries front loaded. I just don't like the situation. Either you are guaranteeing a huge salary next year of $14 mil ($12 mil the next year) and he gets injured or if he stays healthy and plays well he is not playing out a contract that pays him millions less each year.
At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year. Perhaps his cap # is scheduled to be that in Denver next season... However, the cap # is figured by adding the scheduled salary with the signing bonus divided by contract years. So, if the signing bonus was $24 over the six year contract, then $4 million of that $14 million wouldn't transfer to Houston in a trade.

Therefore, if I am right about the mistake you are making, the Texans would owe $10 million in 2011 and $8 million in 2012... that still seems high. And, if his salary is descending as you have said it is, then I agree that will be asking for trouble.
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Old 02-24-2011   #24
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

No way does McNair & Co. trade Mario. I would be shocked if the idea would even be considered under the the most favorable of circumstances. If Mario was a trouble-maker, maybe, but he's not and he's one of the faces of the franchise as a very high profile no. 1 pick.

It will be interesting to see how Mario does under Wade's system, though. Wade is a proven commodity as DC, so if anything, this will certainly be a confirmation of Mario's skill set and true potential. I'm actually optimistic about it, and look forward to the defense that Wade establishes with this team.
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Old 02-24-2011   #25
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

lol...just lol
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Old 02-24-2011   #26
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year. Perhaps his cap # is scheduled to be that in Denver next season... However, the cap # is figured by adding the scheduled salary with the signing bonus divided by contract years. So, if the signing bonus was $24 over the six year contract, then $4 million of that $14 million wouldn't transfer to Houston in a trade.
I'm going off what Rotoworld says and they are usually pretty good.

Quote:
7/22/2010: Signed a six-year, $61.5 million contract. The deal contains $43.156 million guaranteed, including a $3 million signing bonus and Dumervil's first, second, and third years' base salaries. 2011-2012: $14 million, 2013: $12 million, 2014: $10 million, 2015: $8,193,335, 2016: Free Agent
Very small signing bonus, lots of guaranteed salary including salaries of $14 mil for the next two seasons.
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Old 02-24-2011   #27
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year.
From Rotoworld's Dumervil page:

Quote:
7/22/2010: Signed a six-year, $61.5 million contract. The deal contains $43.156 million guaranteed, including a $3 million signing bonus and Dumervil's first, second, and third years' base salaries. 2011-2012: $14 million, 2013: $12 million, 2014: $10 million, 2015: $8,193,335, 2016: Free Agent
Dumervil is making $14 million this year and next year. Guaranteed. Just insane.
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Old 02-24-2011   #28
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

If I was going to use Mario as trade bait, I'd go after an established, veteran,
CB in his prime as my primary target. After all one of the advantages of
a 3-4 over a 4-3 is guys Elvis are less difficult to find than guys like Mario.
But if I was going to make the proposed trade in this thread, I'd need some serious boot with Elvis to make the deal since our guy is just more valuable.
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Old 02-24-2011   #29
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Originally Posted by srrono View Post
today on 790 The Mighty Quin spoke of a proposed trade between houston and denver of Mario Williams for Elvis Dumervil anyone else hear this?
ummmm if so i say W. Philips needs to go
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Old 02-24-2011   #30
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

Who wants to believe the Mighty *********? He is the worst sports talk host in Houston (Rich Lord comes reallyyyyyyyyy close).
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Old 02-24-2011   #31
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
ummmm if so i say W. Philips needs to go
Care to expound on this a bit? I don't quite understand your reasoning
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Old 02-24-2011   #32
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Originally Posted by Texans34Life View Post
Who wants to believe the Mighty *********? He is the worst sports talk host in Houston (Rich Lord comes reallyyyyyyyyy close).
I was just about to post this about MG. He is horrible.
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Old 02-25-2011   #33
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

If Denver was willing to give up Elvis and a 2011 2nd plus a 2012 2nd.

I would do that trade in a second.

MW is injury prone too.

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Old 02-25-2011   #34
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
If Denver was willing to give up Elvis and a 2011 2nd plus a 2011 2nd.

I would do that trade in a second.

MW is injury prone too.
That's not the worst deal in the world but Dumervilles contract is really ugly. I've liked Doom since he came into the league the same year as Mario and I've always thought he was underrated.

However, I'd rather just pay Mario his last year and see what he does and how easy he would be to re-sign than pay Doom $14mil to come off an injury. Also, Dylan Gwinn is terrible as is the whole 10am - 12pm block on all 3 radio stations. I don't listen to 97.5 enough I'm sure.
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Old 02-25-2011   #35
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

Man, it kills me to continue to see people act like Mario Williams is some guy that can't be parted with by some fans here. We had one of the worst pass rushes in the league before Mario got here and we still have one of the worst pass rushes in the league since he's been here. Mario is a good DE, but he is not a game changer on defense.

If Dumberville wasn't coming off a major injury this trade would be a no brainer. His salary wouldn't bother me that much at all really, but his injury was pretty bad. Mario is constantly having nagging injuries though or always has some sort of problem going on with him. Either way, he's nowhere near the player people try and act like he is around here and he's had a lack of motivation type of problem since college and I can't stand players like that especially on the Dline where you have to have a high motor. I doubt this has anything to it though. Mario is one of those guys that Bob sees as an investment because of his hype and his stature. Mario could put up 4 sacks and he'd still be looked at as a beast around here. Bob cares about money and Mario has the fan support because he was a #1 draft pick and hasn't been arrested. He's going nowhere.

If Mario doesn't excell in this 3-4 defense or gets injured this season his stock won't be worth jack after this season compared to what it is now though. I'd love to see him traded while the value is still pretty high. It's not like it would hurt the worst defense in the league either way.
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Old 02-25-2011   #36
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Dumervil is making $14 million this year and next year. Guaranteed. Just insane.
I can see why Denver would be up for a trade.
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Old 02-25-2011   #37
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

Like I-Cak said already, Mario is a more complete player than Dumerville ans it's not really a close comparison. Is Mario going to fit in our 3-4? Only time will tell, but if we're going to discuss imaginary trades for him we should at least make them good ones.

And who the hell is Mighty Quin? He should be fired just for the queer nickname alone.
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Old 02-25-2011   #38
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

Just .....
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Old 02-25-2011   #39
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Man, it kills me to continue to see people act like Mario Williams is some guy that can't be parted with by some fans here. We had one of the worst pass rushes in the league before Mario got here and we still have one of the worst pass rushes in the league since he's been here. Mario is a good DE, but he is not a game changer on defense.

If Dumberville wasn't coming off a major injury this trade would be a no brainer. His salary wouldn't bother me that much at all really, but his injury was pretty bad. Mario is constantly having nagging injuries though or always has some sort of problem going on with him. Either way, he's nowhere near the player people try and act like he is around here and he's had a lack of motivation type of problem since college and I can't stand players like that especially on the Dline where you have to have a high motor. I doubt this has anything to it though. Mario is one of those guys that Bob sees as an investment because of his hype and his stature. Mario could put up 4 sacks and he'd still be looked at as a beast around here. Bob cares about money and Mario has the fan support because he was a #1 draft pick and hasn't been arrested. He's going nowhere.

If Mario doesn't excell in this 3-4 defense or gets injured this season his stock won't be worth jack after this season compared to what it is now though. I'd love to see him traded while the value is still pretty high. It's not like it would hurt the worst defense in the league either way.
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Old 02-25-2011   #40
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Default Re: Mighty Quin on proposed trade

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
Like I-Cak said already, Mario is a more complete player than Dumerville ans it's not really a close comparison. Is Mario going to fit in our 3-4? Only time will tell, but if we're going to discuss imaginary trades for him we should at least make them good ones.

And who the hell is Mighty Quin? He should be fired just for the queer nickname alone.
Whether Mario succeeds in the 3-4 will be entirely dependent upon his motivation and his health. I don't want to hear fans excusing poor play on Mario's part with the "wrong defensive scheme for him". He's a physical freak. Essentially, he will be playing similarly to LDE, which I think was his stronger side.

Mario is a FA after this season, so it will be interesting to see how everything unfolds. I tell you what, though. At this point, there is no way I would want the organization to extend him 6 years with a monster deal!
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