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Old 02-18-2011   #21
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Rasheem Morris, for one, had no problem publicly confronting even some of the Buc's "no names" such as Bryant, Clayton and Winslow.
By telling them that they sucked or that they needed to do a better job? Sorry I need an explanation. Havent heard about that
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Old 02-18-2011   #22
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by bigbrewster2000 View Post
By telling them that they sucked or that they needed to do a better job? Sorry I need an explanation. Havent heard about that
During a period of time when it happened (I think it was back in the 2009 season), he was interviewed (reported by many news media) and was very berating of these players going long stretches without being able to hang on to simple passes, for that matter any passes. Did he use the word "suck"?.......I don't believe so. But his words could have been substituted very nicely without changing the meaning.
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Old 02-18-2011   #23
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

I just heard Rob Ryans' interview as Cowboys DC. Like the Texans that defense was awful and like the rest of Ryan clan good ol Rob is supposed to be a straight shooting load mouth. Guess what? He made the 2010 Cowboy defense sound like the Superbowl cowboy defenses when asked about specfic personnel.

Like the vast majority people, they are not going to take the most public of forums and say ______ sucked arse last year knowing that they are going to have to work with then until the team finds better.

Also, remember these dude are not coaching at the highest level in football because lack confidence in their coaching. Whether it technique, scheme or motivation, all of these guys think they have something that the last coach did not. so, yes, Joseph thinks that he can make Jackson, quinn, McCain, McManus better by just his being there instead of whoever that last guy was.
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Old 02-18-2011   #24
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Rasheem Morris, for one, had no problem publicly confronting even some of the Buc's "no names" such as Bryant, Clayton and Winslow.
Can you elaborate on these public confrontations?
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Old 02-18-2011   #25
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Can you elaborate on these public confrontations?
I can't tell you exact words......obviously, too long ago. But from what I remember they were far from subtle.
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Old 02-18-2011   #26
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
I would've liked to have heard what he thinks of Jason Allen.
me too unless they dont plan on resigning him. I think he showed he can be an every down CB last season. If they dont sign him then i will really start to question this teams commitment to win.
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Old 02-19-2011   #27
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
me too unless they dont plan on resigning him. I think he showed he can be an every down CB last season. If they dont sign him then i will really start to question this teams commitment to win.
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/ro...8-4562bc23af56

Allen had 6 INTs, 3 each with Houston & Miami. He is 27. For some reason I thought he played FS for us.
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Old 02-19-2011   #28
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/ro...8-4562bc23af56

Allen had 6 INTs, 3 each with Houston & Miami. He is 27. For some reason I thought he played FS for us.
He played corner for us. With Miami iirc he started out as a corner, and struggled so they moved him to safety in 09. He struggled there so they moved him back to corner, and released him. While he may have been a bit better than Jackson last year, I don't think he is any more than JAG.

This is what Scouts Inc. had to say about him prior to the '10 season.

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Allen is a backup cornerback who has never played up to expectations in Miami. He is a tall corner with long arms. However, he is a little high cut. That hinders his ability to flip his hips and run. He has good straight-line speed once he gets his hips flipped. He is not a very instinctive player in off coverage. He is slow to plant and drive on the football. He does not play with a lot of urgency in run support. Allen is a naturally talented player who never has developed his game or ascended to the level he should have been at.
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Old 02-20-2011   #29
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
This is most important quote from Joseph. Gibbs' techniques didn't work with this group. Jackson, Quin, etc. will go back to what they've been taught since middle school. That alone should make them more instinctive. These guys are young and maybe their careers can be salvaged. An infusion of talent (preferably veteran) is still needed in the secondary. A #1 CB. A FS. Maybe a new SS. But maybe Quin and Jackson (and even McManis) can bounce back and turn this unit into a serviceable group.

Maybe.
I think this is an important point.

In talking to various NFL people outside the Texans, their number one thing they mentioned to me was that they didn't think the CB technique that they were using was sound.

I'd still like to see some vet leadership but I have to say that this is the most hopeful I've been about the defense in a long time.
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Old 02-20-2011   #30
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Can you elaborate on these public confrontations?
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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I can't tell you exact words......obviously, too long ago. But from what I remember they were far from subtle.
http://www.procanes.com/files/catego...n-winslow.html

Quote:
Sep/29/09 10:15 PM
At a time when many (like us) are questioning whether Browns coach Eric Mangini might lose his players by privately fining them, we think it's fair to wonder whether Bucs coach Raheem Morris might lose his players by publicly calling them out.

Most noticeably, Morris seemingly questioned the desire of tight end Kellen Winslow on a third-down play from the first drive of Sunday's 24-0 loss to the Giants.

On a play that needed five yards for a first down, Winslow (per the Tampa Tribune) caught the ball short of the sticks, moved horizontally and then reached the ball out with his arm.

Winslow came up a yard short.

Morris, on Monday, let his disappointment with Winslow's effort be known.

"Should he have squared his shoulders and tried to get the first down?" Morris said. "Yes. Yes. He has to. We all do. We all have to have that want-to."

Indeed, it wouldn't have been the first time that Morris had choice words for Winslow and Winslow alone. In early August, Morris said that Winslow is "too up and down emotonally."

Still, it was the Bucs who sent a second-round pick to the Browns for Winslow, and it was the Bucs who gave him a big contract with a lot of guaranteed money. It's not as if Winslow had been a model citizen (or a stoic) during the first five years of his career, so the Buccaneers arguably knew or should have known what they were getting themselves into.
i wouldnt say raheem said he sucked in any form but yes he did semi-call him out a little bit. fwiw, kubiaks said the exact same things about jacoby- he just phrases it slightly differently. depends on your taste imo... some ppl are all impressed with showmanship, others arent
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Old 02-20-2011   #31
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
http://www.procanes.com/files/catego...n-winslow.html



i wouldnt say raheem said he sucked in any form but yes he did semi-call him out a little bit. fwiw, kubiaks said the exact same things about jacoby- he just phrases it slightly differently. depends on your taste imo... some ppl are all impressed with showmanship, others arent
Thanks for finding one of the "episodes." There were other instances with his receivers, but you're right........some coaches can keep it in their pants a little better than others.
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Old 02-21-2011   #32
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Yeah. Our worst secondary of damn near all time needs anything BUT a probowler. What they need is more mid to late round rookies.

We can forget about Asomugha and probably Bailey too because they make probowls and making probowls isn't part of the system.

Barf. Way to make a first impression VeeJay.
I think you missed his point and I think he is right. Go look at the Steelers and tell me how many DBs on that team are Pro Bowlers? 2, maybe. Go look at the Ravens and how many DBs are Pro Bowlers? 2, maybe, Green Bay the same way. Patriots, 1-2...

I think he was saying that you do not need a Pro Bowl player at every CB and Safety position to be successful. You just need Cbs and Safeties that do their jobs and do it correctly to have success.

Now if the become Pro Bowl calibur players, then that is a reflection of the coaching but I think Joseph feels there is enough talent in the secondary to coach to success and I think after this year, with different Secondary coaching, we will find out if it was truly lack of coaching that made them horrible last year or is it really talent or lack there of....

But adding a veteran CB is never a bad idea....
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Old 02-23-2011   #33
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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I think he was saying that you do not need a Pro Bowl player at every CB and Safety position to be successful. You just need Cbs and Safeties that do their jobs and do it correctly to have success.
I think winning changes the perception of players... usually. Make a few plays on a winning team, and BAM, you're a probowler even though you may not have played better than the most average player.

Now, make the probowl on a team that hasn't won in a decade (Nmandi, AJ, Foster, Demeco, Mario, Cushing, OD, Leach, Schaub, Jacoby) then you've got something.


Poor coaching
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Old 02-23-2011   #34
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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He played corner for us. With Miami iirc he started out as a corner, and struggled so they moved him to safety in 09. He struggled there so they moved him back to corner, and released him. While he may have been a bit better than Jackson last year, I don't think he is any more than JAG.

This is what Scouts Inc. had to say about him prior to the '10 season.



Link
well regardless of what scouts inc says. i know what i saw last season. i saw a CB who was very good in man, and usually always had his man covered. One who had a nose for the ball. Dont we believe in second chances.
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Old 02-23-2011   #35
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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well regardless of what scouts inc says. i know what i saw last season. i saw a CB who was very good in man, and usually always had his man covered. One who had a nose for the ball. Dont we believe in second chances.
I agree that he might have been the best we had on the team at the end of last year. I just don't think he is all that, and if we can sign a veteran, I would rather go that route and let our youngsters be the depth.
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Old 02-24-2011   #36
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

I'm all for keeping Jason Allen on the team by re-signing him, he'll be cheap and we can always cut him in training camp if he doesn't work out. He was our best CB last year which isn't saying much but the guy has great size, speed, and easily played well enough to get a training camp invite.
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Old 02-24-2011   #37
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

I like the versatility Allen brings (cb, fs) & i'd like him to take the place of Brice McCain on the roster b/c i think McCain should be cut. But Allen in a starters position.................no. He's been in the league long enough for us to know what he is & it aint a starting caliber cb.
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Old 02-24-2011   #38
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

I became a serious Allen fan last year when I saw him run down Chris Johnson, and that's the truth. Johnson caught a short little pass out in the flat, really closer to the sideline, he takes off with the ball, but Allen ran the guy down, I kid you not ! Maybe you remember the play ?
All things considered he's atleast our second best CB (after Quin), so yes we definitely need to keep him if at all possible.
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Old 02-24-2011   #39
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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I became a serious Allen fan last year when I saw him run down Chris Johnson, and that's the truth. Johnson caught a short little pass out in the flat, really closer to the sideline, he takes off with the ball, but Allen ran the guy down, I kid you not ! Maybe you remember the play ?
All things considered he's atleast our second best CB (after Quin), so yes we definitely need to keep him if at all possible.


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Old 02-24-2011   #40
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Default Re: Vance Joseph DB Coach

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Thanks for the pics DB - you're a good man !
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