Great QB w/ good receivers or vice-versa?

[disaacks3]

Watching the Sb last night got me to thinking...(especially as we have Schaub)

Is a team better off with:

A) A GREAT QB w/ "good" receivers?......or

B) A GOOD QB w/ "great" receivers?

ex: Terry Bradshaw (IMHO) was definitely no GREAT QB, but he had an excellent receiving corps.

[Dutchrudder]

A. Great QB with good recievers. No question Rodgers was making the throws 75% of the time, but several key drops really hurt their drives. I can't wait to see how good they are with Jermichael Finley back next year.

[Double Barrel]

In his 14-season career, Bradshaw completed 2,025 of 3,901 passes for 27,989 yards and 212 touchdowns. He also rushed 444 times for 2,257 yards and 32 touchdowns. He was 107-51 as the starting quarterback and the Steelers reached the playoffs 10 times. His career postseason record as a starter was 14-5. He was also selected to play in three Pro Bowl games.

Super Bowl MVP Honors

• Unanimous choice as MVP in Super Bowl XIII vs. Dallas, completing 17 of 30 passes (56.7%) and setting Super Bowl passing records of 318 yards and 4 TDs.

• Won the Most Valuable Player award for the second consecutive year in Super Bowl XIV, completing 14 of 21 passes (66.7%) for 309 yards and 2 TDs.

• One of only two players (Bart Starr) to win back-to-back Super Bowl MVP awards.


NFL MVP/Player of the Year Honors

• Named 1975 NFL Player of the Year by the Football News.

• Named 1978 NFL Player of the Year by the Associated Press, Sport Magazine and the Maxwell Club of Philadelphia.

• Shared Sports Illustrated 1979 Man of the Year Award with Pirates' Willie Stargell.


Steelers Team MVP Awards

• 1977, a season in which he broke his left wrist against Houston yet started the final 11 games wearing a hard cast on his forearm.

• 1978, a year in which he topped the league in TD passes with a career high 28 (plus 8 in the postseason), the most in pro football since the 1970 merger, and threw at least one TD pass in 18 of 19 games. Without question the finest season of Terry's career.


All-Pro/All-Conference, & Pro Bowls

• Selected to 1975 Pro Bowl (did not play due to concussion suffered in Super Bowl X) and 1975 UPI All AFC second team.

• Unanimous All-Pro in 1978; selected to ALL-NFL 1st team by AP, Pro Football Writers Association, Pro Football News, and College & Pro Football News; selected to All AFC 1st team by United Press International and Sporting News; selected to his 2nd Pro Bowl (and played in the game for the first time).

• Selected to 3rd Pro Bowl in 1979 (his 2nd consecutive appearance) after setting career regular season highs for attempts (472), completions (259), and yards (3,724).


NFL/AFC Passing Titles

• Became the only Steeler to ever win a passing title in 1978 when he led the AFC with an 84.8 rating and topped the NFL with 28 TD passes.


Pro Football Hall of Fame

• Enshrined in 1989. Click Here to read a complete transcript of Terry's famous Hall of Fame induction speech. Click Here to visit Terry's page at the official Pro Football Hall of Fame website.


College Records & Awards

• Holds all Louisiana Tech passing and total offense records.

• 1st team AP College Division, Coaches and Time All America teams and 2nd team UPI and Sporting News.

• Was MVP in Senior Bowl.


Terry's Steelers Team Passing Records

• Most Passing Yardage, Career: .27,989 .(1970-83)
• Most Passing Yardage, Season: .3,724 .(1979)
• Most Passing Attempts, Career: .3,901 .(1970-83)
• Most Passing Completions, Career: .2,025 .(1970-83)
• Most Touchdown Passes, Career: .212 .(1970-83)
• Most Touchdown Passes, Season: .28 .(1978)
• Most Interceptions, Career: .210 .(1970-83)
• Highest Passer Rating, Season: .87.8 .(1975)

Yeah, that Bradshaw wasn't very good. [/sarcasm]

It's hand in glove. Great QBs complement great WRs and visa versa.

Andre Johnson is one of the best, but even he couldn't make HWWNBN a competent QB.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Yeah, that Bradshaw wasn't very good. [/sarcasm]

I don't think Dan meant Bradshaw wasn't good, only that he wasn't elite although his team certainly was. I agree. His pass completion % barely topped 50%, he threw as many INT's as he did TD's plus he fumbled a lot - this while playing with two Hall of Fame WR's and a Hall of Fame RB. This is all a matter of definitions to me - I'd call him very good or even great and certainly deserves to be in the Hall but I'd stop short of calling him elite.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

I don't think Dan meant Bradshaw wasn't good, only that he wasn't elite although his team certainly was. I agree. His pass completion % barely topped 50%, he threw as many INT's as he did TD's plus he fumbled a lot - this while playing with two Hall of Fame WR's and a Hall of Fame RB. This is all a matter of definitions to me - I'd call him very good or even great and certainly deserves to be in the Hall but I'd stop short of calling him elite.

People say the same thing about Aikman because he had Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Jay Novacek, and Moose Johnson. But I don't buy it. The QB still has to make plays and get the ball to those receivers. And with multiple Super Bowl championships, it takes more than just being "good" to perform consistently on the big stage.

Back-to-back Super Bowl MVP awards? C'mon, man. That's elite, regardless of cast or team around him. The only other QB to do that in NFL history was Bart Starr.

[HOU-TEX]

I'll take a great defense with good WR's and a good QB.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX

I'll take a great defense with good WR's and a good QB.

*cough*Trent Dilfer/Brad Johnson*cough* Me, too.

[disaacks3]

I'm thinking a QB, in today's NFL, that I'd want under center with 2:00 to play and the game on the line. Heck, Roethlisberger's #'s are better than Bradshaw's and I'm not sure he's "one of those guys either".

It's not to say I wouldn't want either on my team, but them OVER Elway, Montana, Kelly, Brady, Manning?


My comparison would be something like this:

Montana without Rice

vs.

Neil O'Donnell with A.J.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by disaacks3

I'm thinking a QB, in today's NFL, that I'd want under center with 2:00 to play and the game on the line. Heck, Roethlisberger's #'s are better than Bradshaw's and I'm not sure he's "one of those guys either".

It's not to say I wouldn't want either on my team, but them OVER Elway, Montana, Kelly, Brady, Manning?


My comparison would be something like this:

Montana without Rice

vs.

Neil O'Donnell with A.J.

Montana won two Super Bowls before Rice got there. And with the way Brady won three, not a single all star in his WR corps, I'd take the elite QB every day of the week over an elite WR. Just look at our team for an example. AJ gets the ball what, about 10-12 times on a good day? QB will touch the ball every offensive snap.

[Honoring Earl 34]

I think a great QB can make a WR with decent talent and good hands look real good . How ... he puts the ball where it has to be on time . Of course a great Wr can bail out a QB by going up or diving for bad throws .

Anyone remember how HWWNBN used to lead AJ on the one yard slant so he could get an extra two yards after the catch .

[The1ApplePie]

A great WR can make a mediocre QB look good (Culpepper to Moss) or a horrible QB look decent (Kitna and the Cowboy Corps), but can't really win you a championship

But a great QB and good WRs can win a Super Bowl.

[Ole Miss Texan]

I think if I had to choose, I'd take a GREAT QB and good WRs. I look at Tom Brady and think he epitomizes this question. Brady, as much as most people hate him, he makes that team what it is. He brings the most out of the WRs there. Then we he gets a "great" WR like Randy Moss... game over. Look at how good he made Jabar Gaffney.

Peyton Manning in my opinion is a Great QB. Sure he had Harrison and he has Reggie Wayne who were/are both really really really good or great WRs BUT, Manning makes the other guys looke like probowlers. Gonzalez, Jacob Tamme, Pierre Garcon. He can make a lot work with "no name" type of guys.

Drew Brees did it with NO. Brees, IMO, is what makes those WRs look as good as they are. They aren't great wr's by any means.

I don't think Matt Schaub is a great QB, I do think Andre is a GREAT WR. I like what we have here and really do think Schaub can "The Guy" that takes us where we need to go.

[TheCD]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

I don't think Dan meant Bradshaw wasn't good, only that he wasn't elite although his team certainly was. I agree. His pass completion % barely topped 50%, he threw as many INT's as he did TD's plus he fumbled a lot - this while playing with two Hall of Fame WR's and a Hall of Fame RB. This is all a matter of definitions to me - I'd call him very good or even great and certainly deserves to be in the Hall but I'd stop short of calling him elite.

I'm not making a case for Bradshaw, but keep in mind that completion percentages in the game back then were lower because of the less-restrictive defensive penalties. Back then DBs could do all sorts of things that would result in 15+ yard penalties today.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by TheCD

I'm not making a case for Bradshaw, but keep in mind that completion percentages in the game back then were lower because of the less-restrictive defensive penalties. Back then DBs could do all sorts of things that would result in 15+ yard penalties today.

I understand that but even in comparison to his contemporaries like Staubach, Tarkenton, etc. his completion % was low about 51% v. 57-58%.