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Old 02-01-2011   #61
Dishman
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Perhaps you should take your own advice. We are a better franchise than both of them. We sell out our home games (up to date that is), we're the 9th most valuable franchise in the world, 6th in the NFl.

They have had more success on the field than we have, I won't argue that.
McNair wouldn't & hasn't.

But we're definitely a better franchise.
And winning is really all that matters. Much more than any valuation of dollars or ranking in the NFL based on, well, anything aside from winning. I don't watch or root for the Texans because they make their owner a shitload of money.

I'm not so sure we are head-and-shoulders above those other teams.
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Old 02-01-2011   #62
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

All you have to do is look at the 2006 draft .

1. Texans .... a mediocre team at best .
2. Saints ... Won a Super Bowl
3. Titans ... see Texans
4. Jets ... been to the last to AFC championships
5. Packers ... in the Super Bowl
6-12 ... stink
13. Ravens ... playoffs
14. Eagles playoffs
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Old 02-01-2011   #63
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Hiring a first time head coach and letting him pick an inexperienced GM and crappy DC, is a start.

According to a blog by Texans Chick, that first time DC produced this:



So they finally fire the guy. Do they bring in a bonafide PROVEN DC? Of course not. They bring in another FOG (friend of Gary) and first time DC, who proved to be even worse of a coach than his predecessor.

This is all on Bob.

So that's some big mistakes right there that has given us several years of mediocre results.

What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those jobs.

This is about setting a standard for excellence that becomes the be all/end all of running a football franchise. If the end goal is not putting the BEST available at every position in the organization, from GM, scouts, trainers, coaches, etc., then the results will not be an annual drive through the playoffs. If loyalty to employees is higher than the quest for excellence, you end up with perpetual mediocrity, otherwise known as the Houston Texans.

It is this aspect that separates the great teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, from team like the Texans. How many of these teams would hire Rick Smith as their GM? Short of the Lions, Bengals, or Browns, I'd be willing to bet not many.

Must spread rep but this is dead-on accurate. BONNNGGGG!

This is of Bob's making and he's still making the (Copyright 2002-2011, Houston Texans) "Same. Stupid. Mistakes." and what's worse is you can see them from a mile away.

You or I literally could have drafted better than the Texans did in their first 4 years by reading some draft magazines and going with the biggest names remaining on the board in each round. Not hindsight 20/20 shit, just picking the players who had some reasonable degree of name-recognition and calling it a day. I sure as hell couldn't have done worse using that method.

You or I literally could have hired a better head coach by spending a few days reading NFL.com to bone up on who was out there and not working AND we could have done that BOTH TIMES. Dom ****ing Capers? Gary ****ing Kubiak? Are you kidding me? These assistants Gary has foisted off on McNair as the best men for the job again and again are just the icing on the cake.

And we can see this as clear as day. We saw it when it happened but because we're all good little fans who close ranks and hope for the best we all cross our fingers and hope for the best. It doesn't change anything though. Bob's team is a bad joke that nobody laughs at and that everybody sees coming.

Since the day the wheels started obviously coming off of Dom Capers Texans in 2005 every move this team has made has been greeted with hope and trepidation because as bad as we want to believe we all know that there's something wrong with a team that needs help this badly and can only find guys like Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, and all their assorted cronies and "payback hires" to straighten it out. We need players and we draft projects. We need players and we sign junk free agents who underperform. We need players and we sign other teams castoffs from the street (and then watch them outperform our projects and junk free agents).

Every single person who spoke about the Ahman Green signing knew in the bottom of their hearts that the Texans had just thrown money away. Just flushed it down the toilet and in the process wasted two years trying to force that gimpy old has-been and his lousy stand-ins (Dayne & Brown) down our throats.

Our offense has played well (if inconsistently) which I don't mean to dismiss entirely but we hit on players so rarely I can't help but assume that we do so out of sheer dumb luck. What would Gary Kubiak have here today if Andre Johnson hadn't fallen to Charlie Casserly (and we're lucky he didn't find a way to screw that up) and Arian Foster hadn't been overlooked by every team in the NFL (including the Texans)?

What would the Texans be without those two players? Matt Schaub without AJ is nobody. Look how many times Gary couldn't find a running back in his first four seasons and tell me he just knew somehow that Foster was the answer. Now do it with a straight face.

McNair is in more dire need of proven football people than any owner in the NFL but he's committed to his boy Gary. They deserve each other because neither one ever seems to learn a damn thing. The thing is Texans fans don't deserve them.
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Old 02-01-2011   #64
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those jobs.
Defensively we've had this problem for quite some time. Way before Kubiak...

just an observation.
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Old 02-01-2011   #65
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
You or I literally could have drafted better than the Texans did in their first 4 years by reading some draft magazines and going with the biggest names remaining on the board in each round. Not hindsight 20/20 shit, just picking the players who had some reasonable degree of name-recognition and calling it a day. I sure as hell couldn't have done worse using that method.
This is the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit. In last years draft alone, had we taken McCourty & the Patriots took Jackson, which one do you think would be more likely to go to the Pro Bowl? & it's more probably that the Houston Texans fans would still be cying about starting a rookie with no veteran mentor on the team.

Same thing going back to the 2002 draft, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here.
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Old 02-01-2011   #66
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Defensively we've had this problem for quite some time. Way before Kubiak...

just an observation.
Then what does that tell you?

It tells me that the owner does not hire the best qualified people for the jobs.

We do not know what qualifications he bases hiring coaches, trainers, and FO personnel, but it's certainly not the best qualified people available. That is quite obvious.

Vinny said a lot comes down to Bobby Grier, associate director of pro scouting. When he was fired by the Patriots, they started collecting a lot of talent and winning Super Bowls. Grier has been with the Texans since the beginning. Hmmmmm....

I always hoped that McNair would hire Scott Pioli as GM. Years go by and Kansas City finally did, and look how quickly things are turning around for them.

I assume McNair wants to win. But losing doesn't seem to bother him as much as other owners, because there's always next year!
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Old 02-01-2011   #67
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Probably the best post I've read on here in a month.

And I think you wrote the one a month ago that I am referring to.

Every coach who comes to this franchise has to lie and say they can "get it done with the player(s) already here..." so that's been the most honest valuation of this team to date. Even Capers falls into this description, because he got screwed with a shitty expansion draft except for Gary Walker and Seth Payne (meh, throw in Aaron Glenn too. Three players out of the whole damn thing).

LOL. This team was screwed in the beginning, via a poor expansion draft pool, and now McNair (out of fear) is screwing himself. Brilliantly played. But hey, it's "not just about financial success. No sir."

McNair, shovel, manure, mushrooms. I'm noticing a pattern here.
Do you think if McNair heard Cowher was the best available, interviewed him, and Cowher said the Texans needed an overhaul that McNair wouldn't listen?

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
The reality is, there are some people who would scream for Cowher, some for Fischer, some for Gruden and some for Kubiak. If Mcnair hires any of them.. 75% would have an "I told you so" card in their pocket. If 3, 4 or 5 years into a Cowher, Gruden or Fisher campaign, we were 8-8 or 9-7 (which all three of those coaches finished SEVERAL times... 75% would carry their card in and say "haa... Mcnair is an *****". Mike
The difference is, McNair has NEVER gotten the "Best Coach avaialble", by anyone's standard. Even w/ Capers, he got the "Best guy to shepherd an expansion team" at BEST.

While 2nd-guessing is old hat for message boards, it's a hell of a lot easier to defend the guy with a great track record. (a reason why hiring Wade as DC is hard to argue)
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Old 02-01-2011   #68
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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This is the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit. In last years draft alone, had we taken McCourty & the Patriots took Jackson, which one do you think would be more likely to go to the Pro Bowl? & it's more probably that the Houston Texans fans would still be cying about starting a rookie with no veteran mentor on the team.

Same thing going back to the 2002 draft, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here.
No it's not the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit, though I can certainly see why you would feel that way and would expect nothing less than that response from you. You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team and the only time you ever sound even remotely realistic is when you're trying to lay down a semi-solid foundation for your next Texans excuse.

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... particularly following the glaring example that had just been made of Tim Couch in Cleveland under the exact same circumstances. No, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here. He was just an incredibly bad decision for this team at that time.

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.
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Old 02-01-2011   #69
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team...
Let's keep them above the waist..... okay?
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Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... .

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.
Detroit did the same thing, & their guy wasn't even good looking.



That doesn't really help my argument does it
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Old 02-01-2011   #70
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No it's not the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit, though I can certainly see why you would feel that way and would expect nothing less than that response from you. You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team and the only time you ever sound even remotely realistic is when you're trying to lay down a semi-solid foundation for your next Texans excuse.

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... particularly following the glaring example that had just been made of Tim Couch in Cleveland under the exact same circumstances. No, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here. He was just an incredibly bad decision for this team at that time.

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.
Dude, you have to learn to disregard Thunder's posts. They are always middle-of-the-road comments that he says to make us THINK he's being open minded, when in truth they're apologistic musings of why the Texans are great.
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Old 02-01-2011   #71
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Let's keep them above the waist..... okay?


Detroit did the same thing, & their guy wasn't even good looking.



That doesn't really help my argument does it
They didn't actually do the same thing. They at least had a previously existing offensive line not populated by expansion draft picks and rookies.

Ok, granted their line was made up of mostly Detroit Lions draft picks which could arguably be considered almost as bad but still, I assert that Detroit had more business drafting a QB than the Texans did.

I seriously believe that a majority of casual fans given a minimal amount of time to prepare could have drafted no worse and quite possibly much better than the 2002-2005 Texans "brain trust".

You knock the 2002 draft right out of the park by taking Peppers over Carr. That one pick all by itself turns a resounding "F" into at least a passing grade even if all the other picks stayed the same. Taking the Miami(FL) RB over Jabar Gaffney not only recovers the pick we wasted on Gaffney, it also keeps us from throwing a 2003 second round pick away in a desperation move for Tony Hollings. I have never understood the decision to take Carr & Gaffney over Peppers and Portis. I (along with plenty of others) didn't like it at the time but did we ***** and moan and raise hell? Of course not. We were all one big happy family following Bob around and listening to talking heads pondering whether or not this was going to be the best expansion franchise of all time. I understand that you think it's revisionist history to point to it now but I remember clearly being concerned that we weren't doing exactly what Bob/Charlie/Dom said we'd do (build the lines first - referring to the Peppers pick here). I remember thinking "Portis is right there! TAKE HIM!"

I remember a lot of that kind of thing. Stuff like "Wilfork is right there! TAKE HIM!", "What in the hell do we need a left handed rookie QB for?", and who could forget "You traded the entire heart of our draft first day for Jason WHO?"

My personal favorite though was "DERRICK JOHNSON! HE'S THERE! WAIT, WHAT? TRADED DOWN? FUUUUUUUUUUU!"

My point isn't that you or I can look back at these drafts and find better players knowing what we know now. My point is that we knew the Texans were screwing the pooch then. We just didn't face that because to do so meant we were being negative and disloyal.

Emperor. Right over there. Naked.

I'm ashamed to say I saw he didn't have any clothes on at the time and made myself believe otherwise.

I'm afraid you're still trying to convince people that he must have something on.
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Old 02-01-2011   #72
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

nevermind
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Old 02-01-2011   #73
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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My point isn't that you or I can look back at these drafts and find better players knowing what we know now. My point is that we knew the Texans were screwing the pooch then. We just didn't face that because to do so meant we were being negative and disloyal.

Emperor. Right over there. Naked.

I'm ashamed to say I saw he didn't have any clothes on at the time and made myself believe otherwise.

I'm afraid you're still trying to convince people that he must have something on.
My bad..... if this is your point, I completely understand. Good point.
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Old 02-01-2011   #74
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

nvm
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Old 02-01-2011   #75
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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I assume McNair wants to win. But losing doesn't seem to bother him as much as other owners, because there's always next year!
AND...other owners embrace him and dry his tears after the Ravens almost-come-from-behind-win-that-ends-as-a-loss game.

Side note: Herv is tearing the hell out of this forum this week. I mean, he's opened up a huge lead and the nearest horse is 20-something lengths behind him.
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Old 02-01-2011   #76
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

I almost fell over when I saw the comparison of the Texans' choice of Carr at #1 with Detroit's choice. I guess we have now escalated our sights to comparing ourselves to the "established NFL elite".........I guess.
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Old 02-01-2011   #77
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

Next year, Bob will go on record as saying that it will be Intergalactic Championship or bust.

The guy keeps raising the stakes with chips he doesn't have.
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Old 02-01-2011   #78
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Next year, Bob will go on record as saying that it will be Intergalactic Championship or bust.

The guy keeps raising the stakes with chips he doesn't have.
If this comes true then your signature could be considered prophetic.
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Old 02-01-2011   #79
thunderkyss 
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I almost fell over when I saw the comparison of the Texans' choice of Carr at #1 with Detroit's choice. I guess we have now escalated our sights to comparing ourselves to the "established NFL elite".........I guess.
It was meant to be sarcastic.... He said "no one in their right mind." After my Detroit comment I posted some fine print to convey the sarcasm.

Sorry you missed it, I'll try harder.
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Old 02-02-2011   #80
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Default Re: Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

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Originally Posted by Dishman View Post
If this comes true then your signature could be considered prophetic.
HA! You're right.

It is a prophecy of our destiny. We will rule outer space.
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