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Old 01-20-2011   #1
HoustonFrog
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Default Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

This sounds like he has been hanging around here for the last month or so.Wonder if this is their flagship.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/201...lerner-family/
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Old 01-20-2011   #2
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

Can anyone post the gist of the conversation for those who dont want to stream stuff at work?
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Old 01-20-2011   #3
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Can anyone post the gist of the conversation for those who dont want to stream stuff at work?
It isn't a full stream...embedded youtube of the rant.

It was basically a radio talk show host saying he is tired of hearing about the "process" and being patient and how the Lerners are the devil and how all these other teams do well every year and Cleveland fans are sheep that accept the same b.s., etc/ It is funny. It just sounds EXACTLY like what has been going on here for the past month...myself included.
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Old 01-20-2011   #4
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Can anyone post the gist of the conversation for those who dont want to stream stuff at work?
I didn't listen, but this is what was written...

Quote:
Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning; and that somebody is Greg Kozarik, the host of Locked and Loaded on the Cleveland.com Digital Sports Network.

In an angry rant earlier today, Kozarik says many things, including the word “process” at least 50 times (I’m not exaggerating). Among the accusations he hurls to and fro: Browns are sheep; Browns management insanely tries the same things over and over again while expecting different results; and, he refers to the Lerner family as “the devil themselves”.

The line that will probably end up being the most memorable and notorious from this roughly 8:30 rant is this one:

Al Lerner himself is down in hell right now laughing with Satan, because do you know how much money he stole from Cleveland Browns fans?

I also blipsnipped it if you want to listen to the parts I picked out as highlights:

@00:29 The first reference to Browns fans being sheep.
@01:00 He makes his best point here, discussing why he will not "respect the process" while watching the Browns continue to lose as teams like Tampa Bay turn things around in one year.
@02:08 Another dig at the blind faith of Browns fans
@03:08 Clearly he does not think Peyton Hillis is Chuck Norris
@03:29 And, again, it's your fault Browns fans!
@03:45 The first reference to the Lerner family being the devil/Lucifer (plus a quick history lesson on the Browns leaving and coming back)
@05:26 ".500! You're getting excited? You're getting excited for .500?" - Yes Browns fans, you are SHEEP!
@06:38 "The Lerners are the devil themselves. Al Lerner himself is down in hell right now laughing with Satan, because do you know how much money he stole from Cleveland Browns fans?"
@07:59 This is the statement of a TRUE non-sheep Browns fan right here.
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Old 01-20-2011   #5
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

I think both franchises are proof of how difficult it is to get established in the NFL.

This Madden generation thinks it is so easy, but between the two franchises just about every permutation of coaches & general managers & players & Free Agents & everything else we talk about here has been tried to pretty much the same level of success.

Even teams like the The Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers & the Rams serves as example of what it takes to put together a winning franchise. It was a long time before those teams were even relevant, much less "winners." Those however also show that success is indeed acheivable.

Fire Kubiak..... hire the Chin... what could go wrong?

realistically, it's about much more than that.. much more than the playing on the field... much more than the game time decisions.
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Old 01-20-2011   #6
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The past few years the Browns were generally described as gormless by this board while the Texans were hailed as doing things right. Now the teams seem more similar than different. This shouldn't be a pleasant thought for Texans fans.

Or Browns fans.
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Old 01-20-2011   #7
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

I laugh at the notion of "parity" in the NFL.

We see the same things this year. Look at the final four teams. Yeah, they've been up and down over the years, but they all have one thing in common: Super Bowl championships in their histories.

Since the Texans arrived in 2002, it seems the same teams are at the bottom year in and year out. The Texans, Browns, Raiders, Lions, etc.

The Raiders have winning history, but their owner is senile so the model gets broken with them. But, when they eventually have a new owner, I have little doubt that they will rise again, simply because they have history to reflect upon.

Yeah, it's difficult to win the in the NFL, but damn near impossible to win with inept and incompetent ownership. For different reasons, the same teams share this common thread. Owners who cannot seem to pull their heads out of their asses to make decisions that put their teams in position to win more than they lose.

And just like championships leave a legacy with a team, even decades later, so does losing. And that's the problem with teams like the Texans, Browns, Lions, etc., they have a self-fulfilling prophecy of suck.

That's why a rant by a Cleveland radio host reverberates in Houston. We know where this guy is coming from, and we understand it because we live it. I'd say forward this rant to McNair, but I doubt he'd even get it and/or hear it, much less comprehend what it represents as it relates to his decisions and franchise.
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Old 01-20-2011   #8
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
It isn't a full stream...embedded youtube of the rant.

It was basically a radio talk show host saying he is tired of hearing about the "process" and being patient and how the Lerners are the devil and how all these other teams do well every year and Cleveland fans are sheep that accept the same b.s., etc/ It is funny. It just sounds EXACTLY like what has been going on here for the past month...myself included.
Thanks REP!

Yeah that is the Texans to a T.
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Old 01-20-2011   #9
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
That's why a rant by a Cleveland radio host reverberates in Houston. We know where this guy is coming from, and we understand it because we live it. I'd say forward this rant to McNair, but I doubt he'd even get it and/or hear it, much less comprehend what it represents as it relates to his decisions and franchise.
But they're taking entirely different paths.... Cleveland is doing all the things people want Houston to do, & it hasn't got them any closer.

Look at Washington. Where are they now? They had that history, they have a Super Bowl Championship in their history. But they are at the bottom where we are & they have an owner who went out & got players. He went out & got a "sure thing" head coach... twice. & that franchise is in dissaray.


Make no mistake about it. If anyone on this board knows a sure fire way to turn a losing franchise into a Super Bowl contender year in & year out, there are at least 15 NFL franchises that would love to get them on the payroll.
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Old 01-20-2011   #10
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Make no mistake about it. If anyone on this board knows a sure fire way to turn a losing franchise into a Super Bowl contender year in & year out, there are at least 15 NFL franchises that would love to get them on the payroll.
Year in & year out? LOL, at this point I'll take "year".
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Old 01-20-2011   #11
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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But they're taking entirely different paths.... Cleveland is doing all the things people want Houston to do, & it hasn't got them any closer.
Sorta', but not really. Cleveland did not hire a bonafide GM, but rather a successful head coach with desires to be a GM. Holmgren is still unproven at that position, though, so the results are the same.

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Look at Washington. Where are they now? They had that history, they have a Super Bowl Championship in their history. But they are at the bottom where we are & they have an owner who went out & got players. He went out & got a "sure thing" head coach... twice. & that franchise is in dissaray.
It goes back to my point about inept and incompetent ownership. Yeah, he finally got Joe Gibbs, but honestly, the dude was way past his prime. And even with the albatross of an owner around his neck, Gibbs still managed to get them to the playoffs twice in four seasons. The verdict is still out on Shanahan, but it's too early to tell after just one season.

Quote:
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Make no mistake about it. If anyone on this board knows a sure fire way to turn a losing franchise into a Super Bowl contender year in & year out, there are at least 15 NFL franchises that would love to get them on the payroll.
I'm not sure of your point. You can watch NFLN and ESPN for NFL coverage, and there are pundits with NFL experience that are doing the same thing we do on the boards: talk about the sport we love.

And perhaps we don't know the exact formula for a "sure fire way to turn a losing franchise into a Super Bowl contender year in & year out", but we damn sure know how to keep a franchise at the bottom year in and year out. We see it every season and watch it every year. We're experts on crappy teams in that regard.

What is interesting, though, is that there have been many instances where forum members saw things well ahead of our FO. It doesn't necessarily make them experts in football, but rather reveals the ignorance of those running the team we follow.
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Old 01-20-2011   #12
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I laugh at the notion of "parity" in the NFL.

We see the same things this year. Look at the final four teams. Yeah, they've been up and down over the years, but they all have one thing in common: Super Bowl championships in their histories.

Since the Texans arrived in 2002, it seems the same teams are at the bottom year in and year out. The Texans, Browns, Raiders, Lions, etc.

The Raiders have winning history, but their owner is senile so the model gets broken with them. But, when they eventually have a new owner, I have little doubt that they will rise again, simply because they have history to reflect upon.

Yeah, it's difficult to win the in the NFL, but damn near impossible to win with inept and incompetent ownership. For different reasons, the same teams share this common thread. Owners who cannot seem to pull their heads out of their asses to make decisions that put their teams in position to win more than they lose.

And just like championships leave a legacy with a team, even decades later, so does losing. And that's the problem with teams like the Texans, Browns, Lions, etc., they have a self-fulfilling prophecy of suck.

That's why a rant by a Cleveland radio host reverberates in Houston. We know where this guy is coming from, and we understand it because we live it. I'd say forward this rant to McNair, but I doubt he'd even get it and/or hear it, much less comprehend what it represents as it relates to his decisions and franchise.
It really struck a chord. You could replace "Cleveland" with "Houston" and talk and his rant was basically the same as we were doing here these past months. I just didn't realize that other cities had fallen into the same trap and being lulled by the "patience" and "process" message.

BTW, my favorite part is when he just starts going off about how teams aren't game planning for Joe Thomas..lol
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Old 01-20-2011   #13
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
It really struck a chord. You could replace "Cleveland" with "Houston" and talk and his rant was basically the same as we were doing here these past months.
Not totally. Part of his rant was that the Browns have only made the playoffs once in their existence.
Besides making the playoffs his team got to bring back their name and colors. He should just STHU because it could be a lot worse, he could be a Houston fan.
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Old 01-20-2011   #14
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I laugh at the notion of "parity" in the NFL.

We see the same things this year. Look at the final four teams. Yeah, they've been up and down over the years, but they all have one thing in common: Super Bowl championships in their histories.
Since the Texans arrived in 2002, it seems the same teams are at the bottom year in and year out. The Texans, Browns, Raiders, Lions, etc.

The Raiders have winning history, but their owner is senile so the model gets broken with them. But, when they eventually have a new owner, I have little doubt that they will rise again, simply because they have history to reflect upon.

Yeah, it's difficult to win the in the NFL, but damn near impossible to win with inept and incompetent ownership. For different reasons, the same teams share this common thread. Owners who cannot seem to pull their heads out of their asses to make decisions that put their teams in position to win more than they lose.

And just like championships leave a legacy with a team, even decades later, so does losing. And that's the problem with teams like the Texans, Browns, Lions, etc., they have a self-fulfilling prophecy of suck.

That's why a rant by a Cleveland radio host reverberates in Houston. We know where this guy is coming from, and we understand it because we live it. I'd say forward this rant to McNair, but I doubt he'd even get it and/or hear it, much less comprehend what it represents as it relates to his decisions and franchise.
Yes, and they all have very good defenses.

Just another HOU-TEX random observation
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Old 01-20-2011   #15
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Not totally. Part of his rant was that the Browns have only made the playoffs once in their existence.
Besides making the playoffs his team got to bring back their name and colors. He should just STHU because it could be a lot worse, he could be a Houston fan.
I normally don't quote myself but I did just think of something. He did have to witness his old team win the Super Bowl for another fan base only a year after his team was re-established. Since then they have been a solid franchise for the most part.

Our old team continues to be the same old piece of crap, good for a while (choke when it matters) and then total suckfest mode. I really think they are in for a long suckfest this time around.

Now that I think about it I would rather not have that 1 playoff season and be Houston fan.
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Old 01-20-2011   #16
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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Sorta', but not really. Cleveland did not hire a bonafide GM, but rather a successful head coach with desires to be a GM. Holmgren is still unproven at that position, though, so the results are the same.
Could've swore he got the Seahawks to the Super Bowl as their GM & V.P. of football operations.
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It goes back to my point about inept and incompetent ownership. Yeah, he finally got Joe Gibbs, but honestly, the dude was way past his prime. And even with the albatross of an owner around his neck, Gibbs still managed to get them to the playoffs twice in four seasons. The verdict is still out on Shanahan, but it's too early to tell after just one season.

I'm not sure of your point. You can watch NFLN and ESPN for NFL coverage, and there are pundits with NFL experience that are doing the same thing we do on the boards: talk about the sport we love.
Except they do it with a little class, & don't act as if they knew better. They don't call people ignorant or inept or incompetent when they have never shown to be able to do any better.

Sure we can second guess & imagine what would have happened if we went this way, or that..

But history shows new teams starting out..... don't do very well, for a very long time. Carolina & Jacksonville were the exception.. not the rule.

Teams that fall in the gutter usually stay there for a very long time. That includes Greenbay, Dallas, Jets, Miami, INdy/Baltimore, Cincinnatti, etc.....


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What is interesting, though, is that there have been many instances where forum members saw things well ahead of our FO. It doesn't necessarily make them experts in football, but rather reveals the ignorance of those running the team we follow.
Or....... maybe some people here are just ignorant of all the stipulations & circumstances.... or just chose to ignore them... that lead to the decisions this franchise has made.
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Old 01-20-2011   #17
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

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But history shows new teams starting out..... don't do very well, for a very long time. Carolina & Jacksonville were the exception.. not the rule.
If you would have posted that in 2004 I would have agreed. Carolina and Jax are the exception to the rule, the rule that states most expansion teams don't make it to their conference title games in only their 2nd season.

It took Tampa Bay 4 seasons to make the NFC title game. They started in 76 and were one game away from the Super Bowl in 79.

The Seahawks went 9-7 in their 3rd season of existence however missed the playoffs that season. They did go to the playoffs in 1983. So before the Texans came around they were the worst of the modern expansion teams since it took them 8 seasons.

The expansion Browns took 4 seasons to make the playoffs.

So most expansion teams make it to the playoffs by their 4th season. The Texans and Seahawks are the exception, not the rule.

Clearly the Texans are the worst of the "modern" expansion lot.
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Old 01-20-2011   #18
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It didn't take long to hit on the Panglossian "we live in the best of all worlds" response:

The Texans are as good as they can be. No one could have done better. No decisions could have been made better. If a fan doesn't believe it, they just don't understand how the NFL works.

Sorry. When Candide saw monkeys raping women, he killed them. He didn't think that was the best of all worlds. Even after Dr. Pangloss spun it - maybe the monkeys and women were lovers - he still didn't buy it.

Spin each decision, each coach, each game all you want; the Texans aren't "as good as they could possibly be" after nine years.
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Old 01-20-2011   #19
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

Longest Playoff Drought Current

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...season_drought

for too lazy to click the link

Only three teams since the Texans came into the league have not made the playoffs: Lions, Bills, Texans

Only 5 teams not in the playoffs since the Smithiak error...I mean era started: Browns, 49ers, Raiders, Rams, Broncos
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Old 01-20-2011   #20
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Default Re: Cleveland Talk Show Hosts Blasts Tex..err Browns

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Could've swore he got the Seahawks to the Super Bowl as their GM & V.P. of football operations.
Perhaps you should educate yourself first before typing such stuff.

Following the 2002 season, Holmgren was terminated as Seahawks General Manager. The Seahawks went to the Super Bowl in 2006.

He was a horrible GM according to most people in the know.

Mike Holmgren - A Good GM?

Quote:
Except they do it with a little class, & don't act as if they knew better. They don't call people ignorant or inept or incompetent when they have never shown to be able to do any better.
You obviously don't watch that much television analysis.

And give me a break with your arrogant condescending BS about "class". That is laughable. We're fans of a billion dollar entertainment medium, and you want to spew some nonsense about "class".

As far as calling someone ignorant or inept or incompetent, it is what it is.

What do you call an owner that has been unable to assemble a successful staff for a decade? Please answer this question, because your opinions always seem scattered and without focus. It's my perception, but I'd really be interested in reading your CLASSY answer to this question.

Quote:
Teams that fall in the gutter usually stay there for a very long time. That includes Greenbay, Dallas, Jets, Miami, INdy/Baltimore, Cincinnatti, etc.....
Success is a cycle that is proven throughout NFL history.

With the exception of the Bengals - who have their own issues with an INEPT, INCOMPETENT, & IGNORANT owner - I would not be surprised to see the other teams reach success before the Texans. Green Bay and the NYJ are already there (hey, there's those cycles!), and not even sure why you'd mention Indy right now.

Quote:
Or....... maybe some people here are just ignorant of all the stipulations & circumstances.... or just chose to ignore them... that lead to the decisions this franchise has made.
You should give yourself more credit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
It didn't take long to hit on the Panglossian "we live in the best of all worlds" response:

The Texans are as good as they can be. No one could have done better. No decisions could have been made better. If a fan doesn't believe it, they just don't understand how the NFL works.

Sorry. When Candide saw monkeys raping women, he killed them. He didn't think that was the best of all worlds. Even after Dr. Pangloss spun it - maybe the monkeys and women were lovers - he still didn't buy it.

Spin each decision, each coach, each game all you want; the Texans aren't "as good as they could possibly be" after nine years.
Well said, man. The PomPom Patrol gives me gas sometimes.
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