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Old 01-27-2011   #41
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

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Originally Posted by PHAROAH View Post
I don't see the Titans drafting a 3-4 OLB in their 4-3 defense plus they need a QB I just don't see them drafting Von Miller makes no since now the Dallas Cowboys is different story as the guy opposite Demarcus Ware hasn't lived up to his first round status.
People said the same thing about Elis Dumervill and he succeeded in the 4-3 and 3-4. Von Miller has a lot of Dumervill similarities.
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Old 01-27-2011   #42
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

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Originally Posted by panamamyers View Post
Cam knew exactly where he was going with the ball prior to the play starting at Auburn. The playcalling was extremely orchestrated and precise. He did not have to make any reads at all. Go back and watch when he throws the ball. It's usually off a fake end-around, pump fake here, throw here. Fake hand off, throw here.
this. malzahn's passing plays are designed to leave 1 WR open, or create a mismatch. all cam had to do was look and if he didn't like what he saw, he just took off running.
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Old 01-27-2011   #43
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

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Originally Posted by panamamyers View Post
Cam knew exactly where he was going with the ball prior to the play starting at Auburn. The playcalling was extremely orchestrated and precise. He did not have to make any reads at all. Go back and watch when he throws the ball. It's usually off a fake end-around, pump fake here, throw here. Fake hand off, throw here.

He was never required to read a defense.

Both he and Vince were in about as far as you can get from a pro-style offense.

Vince was a much better runner than Cam.
Cam has a better throwing motion, more zip on his passes.

Vince dominated the MNC game.
Cam folded for the most part and let a true freshman lead the way.

That is the main difference. NFL GM's drooled over Vince's ability to lift his play, and the play of his teammates in pressure situations.
Cam fell apart when he was put up against the other top team in the nation, and he looked no where near as dominant.

Th difference between the two starts there.

Also, I always think back to the Run n Shoot days with the Houston Cougars. Fool me once with Andre Ware, fool me again with Klingler....but then the GM's were not going to be fooled again.

They may have been fooled in their eyes into thinking Vince would be a great NFL qb. They see Cam as being Vince part two, so they already know now what that type of guy can or cannot do in the NFL.
First of all, there's the pre-snap read.
Certainly, there are plays in any offense that allows the QB to go with a pass if he sees certain defense and check into a run when he sees certain defense.

Go back and look for example, on a receiver screen.
When there are 3 receivers on one side and the DB plays off one of them.
You see Newton went directly to his target because he knew his target would have the blockings to spring the play (most of the time).
And that's supposed to be what it is even in a WCO like the Texans' with Schaub and AJ, for example.

On the other hand, there are plays with 2 receivers on one side.
The X receiver could run some sort of a post or inside route to take away the safety.
The slot receiver could run a wheel route to the outside.
When Newton sees the safety coming down to take away the X receiver, he would go to the slot man.
That's two reads, not one. (And I've seen this in at least 2 games I watched so far).

Go back and watch all of his games, you will see that he can make more than one read as well as any of the top QBs in this draft class.

Go back and watch the title game carefully.
You will see that with better receivers (a dropped pass here and there), the game could have been a blow-out for the Tigers.
And that was with the Ducks defense playing extremely well.

Malzhan's game is anything but the run and shoot.
He employs a FB or HB in some plays, even when the QB is in the shotgun.
Once in a while, they even have 3 backs (not counting Newton) in a modified flexbone.

Heck, I even saw Newton line up as the wide-out in the wildcat formation and caught a TD pass on a go route.

I've seen him roll out one way, looking at two receivers who were both well covered. He turned to the inside and fired a nice pass to the receiver that ran a slant route from the other side.
That's 3 reads right there (with the TE and RB staying back to block).
- I just finish watching this play and the wildcat TD reception in the Ole Miss game as I type this.
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Old 01-27-2011   #44
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

Here comes one more play from the Ole Miss game.
On first and ten, Newton look right; both receivers on this side were well-covered.
He went back all the way to the left side line to the Z receiver who ran a come back route that would have been good for 11 yds but the receiver dropped the easy pass (between the numbers, just above his head.)
Again, that's 3 reads, not just one or two, and he scanned the entire field.
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Old 01-27-2011   #45
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

I happen to be on record here as saying that I think Cam Newton is going to be the type of QB that people thought Vince Young might become in the NFL.

Cam didn't have a great game in the title game. I admit that. I watched it, and he wasn't a world beater at all.

The thing that I think will make Cam end up being what Vince isn't and won't be, is that I think Cam has a normal-functioning brain.

It really just comes down to that, IMO. Brains.
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Old 01-27-2011   #46
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

He would come back to the same receiver on the next play.
In this one, the receiver lined up as the left slot in the one-back shotgun spread.
The two receivers on the right ran deep routes.

Pre-snap, Newton saw the 2 LBs inching up to the LOS (4-2-5 defense)
They would come in on the blitz.
Seeing this, Newton made the smart decision to go with the left slot who ran a slant pattern to the middle (where the LBs had vacated).
That's a good read right there.

Oh, and it was a good throw where he led the receiver to a 20yd gain on a simple short route.
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Old 01-27-2011   #47
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I happen to be on record here as saying that I think Cam Newton is going to be the type of QB that people thought Vince Young might become in the NFL.

Cam didn't have a great game in the title game. I admit that. I watched it, and he wasn't a world beater at all.

The thing that I think will make Cam end up being what Vince isn't and won't be, is that I think Cam has a normal-functioning brain.

It really just comes down to that, IMO. Brains.
From what I've seen and heard from Newton, he isn't that far ahead of VY in that regard. Neither of them is impressive at all in that category.
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Old 01-27-2011   #48
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

Next series, on third and 7, deep in the Tigers territory (their 5), Newton looked left; receiver covered.

He looked right; 2 receivers covered temporarily.
He waited a tad for the inside receiver to make the break to the dead spot between DBs/LBs and safeties.
12-yd completion on a critical third down, and again, that's 3 reads, not one.
And again, he scanned the entire field.
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Old 01-27-2011   #49
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

Next series, 2-12 (after the RB lost 2 yds on a run).
Single back, 3 receiver trip on the left, one receiver on far right.
Newton looked left, both receivers covered.
He progressed to the middle, LBs dropping back taking away the slant route.
Boom, he went to the right for a 9yd pass.
All that in just over 2 secs.
At least 3 reads there and still get the ball to the receiver on time with a dart!
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Old 01-27-2011   #50
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
I happen to be on record here as saying that I think Cam Newton is going to be the type of QB that people thought Vince Young might become in the NFL.

Cam didn't have a great game in the title game. I admit that. I watched it, and he wasn't a world beater at all.

The thing that I think will make Cam end up being what Vince isn't and won't be, is that I think Cam has a normal-functioning brain.

It really just comes down to that, IMO. Brains.
In my eyes, Newton did not have a bad game.
Here are some examples:

1st series:

(1st and 10) AUBURN TIGERS drive start at 13:12 from their 38

(1st and 10) O. McCalebb rush for 15 yards to the ORE47, 1ST DOWN AUB (Boyett, John).
(1st and 10) O. McCalebb rush for no gain to the ORE47 (Paysinger, S.).


(2nd and 10) Cam Newton sacked for loss of 8 yards to the AUB45 (Rowe, Kenny), fumble by Cam Newton recovered by AUB Mike Berry at AUB45.

The FB #32 Smith missed the block on the right side. Newton was in his throwing motion and did not see the OLB coming. (The receiver was open on a post corner route. That could have been an easy TD right there.)

#23 McCalebb should have picked up the block as well but did not (he came from the left on a faked end-around.)


(3rd and 18) Cam Newton pass incomplete to Darvin Adams.

Receiver alligator-armed and dropped a pass down the side line.
That would have been at least a 34 yd gain.
Adams had beaten the LCB to the outside; the lone safety was too far to arrive in time for help over the top.

These were the kinds of plays that made Newton "looked bad" and prevented the game from becoming a blow-out.

(4th and 18) Ryan Shoemaker punt 37 yards to the ORE18, Barner, Kenjon return 1 yards to the ORE19 (Craig Stevens).
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Old 01-27-2011   #51
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

Second series:

(1st and 10) AUBURN TIGERS drive start at 09:19.
(1st and 10) Cam Newton rush for 2 yards to the ORE45 (Matthews, Casey).

The receiver #80 missed the crash block that prevented Newton to go outside.
Matthews came in free with no blocker on him to make the tackle.


(2nd and 8) Cam Newton pass intercepted by Harris, Cliff at the ORE25, Harris, Cliff return 22 yards to the ORE47 (Emory Blake).

Miscommunication with the receiver Zachery.
The LCB dropped back into 3-deep coverage.
The receiver should have read this and sit back in the zone instead of carrying on the post route.
In my eyes, Newton did right by throwing to that "supposedly" empty space, except that the receiver ran by it and did not stop.
If it's man coverage, receiver carries the route.
If it's zone coverage, receiver should sit down.
That could have been a 15-yd completion; instead it was an INT.
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Old 01-27-2011   #52
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

Third series.

(1st and 10) AUBURN TIGERS drive start at 05:01.
(1st and 10) Cam Newton pass complete to Emory Blake for no gain to the AUB14 (Lewis, Javes).
Two receivers missed their blocks.

(2nd and 10) Cam Newton pass complete to Darvin Adams for 12 yards to the AUB26, 1ST DOWN AUB (Lewis, Javes).
One back shotgun spread; 3-receiver trip right; z-receiver left (Adams would run a slant to the right).
Newton rolled right and saw all 3 receivers covered.
He patiently waited for the crowd to clear out and to draw the LBs up, then flipped a pass back to his left to Adams for a first down.


(1st and 10) O. McCalebb rush for 7 yards to the AUB33, out-of-bounds (Paysinger, S.).


(2nd and 3) Cam Newton rush for loss of 2 yards to the AUB31 (Bair, Brandon;Matthews, Casey).
LBs read the play well and stayed on top of both Newton and his RB.
Receiver was late to come in for the crash block.


(3rd and 5) Cam Newton sacked for loss of 5 yards to the AUB26 (Clark, Zac).
Newton had to wait for the routes to develop; all the receivers were temporarily covered.
He saw a running lane up ahead and tried to take off (the receivers had drawn all the defenders to the outside; there was nothing but green in the middle).
The NT, however, put a good spin move on the RG to get him off-balance and turn back to the inside to derail Newton.


(4th and 10) Ryan Shoemaker punt 49 yards to the ORE25, Barner, Kenjon return 4 yards to the ORE29 (Jamar Travis).
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Old 01-27-2011   #53
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

FOURTH SERIES.
(1st and 10) AUBURN TIGERS drive start at 14:08.
(1st and 10) Michael Dyer rush for 5 yards to the AUB23 (Jackson, Tal.).
Running play from a "3-back" shotgun set (not including the QB).

(2nd and 5) Cam Newton pass complete to Terrell Zachery for 8 yards to the AUB31, 1ST DOWN AUB, out-of-bounds (Lokombo, Boseko).
Newton saw the lone safety coming down to take on the slot receiver;
he calmy deliver the ball to the wide-out for a first down.

(1st and 10) Michael Dyer rush for 10 yards to the AUB41, 1ST DOWN AUB (Peppars, Chad).
Counter run from a 2-back shotgun spread; FB went left; RB up the middle right.

(1st and 10) Cam Newton pass complete to Terrell Zachery for 13 yards to the ORE46, 1ST DOWN AUB (Lewis, Javes).
The 2-back shotgun set drew the LBs in.
The RCB played man on the X-receiver;
Newton realized the safety was back too deep; he simply dumped a pass to the uncovered slot receiver in the flat for a 13-yd gain.
His pre-snap read has been excellent throughout the year!

(1st and 10) Cam Newton pass complete to Darvin Adams for 9 yards to the ORE37 (Jackson, Tal.).
2 receivers on the right running deep route; FB stayed back to block;
RB ran a check route to the left flat; Y receiver Adams ran a slant from left to the middle.
Newton looked right; both receivers covered.
He looked left where the Guard had pulled out to set up a RB screen; the LBs read it well and pursued to the outside.
Not a problem, Newton went back to the middle to Adams for an easy 9-yd completion.
(Remember the LBs were drawn outside by the "supposedly" screen pass.)
In this play, Newton made ALL 4 of his reads (plus a faked hand-off) and delivered the ball in just over 2 secs.

(2nd and 1) [HUUC], Cam Newton pass complete to O. McCalebb for 2 yards to the ORE35, 1ST DOWN AUB.
Newton drew the LBs in with an unbalanced set (TE, a FB and a RB all on the right side.)
He faked the hand-off, turned around, wanting to go to Adams who ran a slant from the right side in, but he (Newton) slipped and almost fell down.
As he tried to regain his balance, you can tell that he saw the RB checking out to the left flat.
He got up and quick-tossed the ball to McCalebb as the defenders swallowed him up.
That's more than one-read, my friend!

(1st and 10) Cam Newton pass incomplete to Emory Blake (Harris, Cliff).
Exceptional play by the LCB who had followed his receiver (Adams) toward the post; somehow, he was able to turn back and give help on the outside wheel route.
The ball was right there for the receiver, but Harris made a great play to break it off.
Good read by Newton, excellent play by the LCB (keep an eye on this RS Soph.) to get off his man and give help.

(2nd and 10) Cam Newton pass complete to Kodi Burns for 35 yards to the ORE0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 12:00. (1st and 0) Wes Byrum kick attempt good.
Newton saw that the Ducks' corners both had dropped back into 3-deep coverage, taking away the X and Y receivers' deep routes. (Oregon was in a 3 deep, 3 underneath coverage, 5-man blitz).
He (Newton) chose the slot receiver in the right dead spot; dead on; dead ducks!
Burns made the safety missed for the last 15 yards.
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Old 01-27-2011   #54
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

I really don't understand how people can say that Newton is capable of making only one read or that the plays were designed for him to make just one read!

UNFATHOMABLE!
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Old 01-27-2011   #55
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
I happen to be on record here as saying that I think Cam Newton is going to be the type of QB that people thought Vince Young might become in the NFL.

Cam didn't have a great game in the title game. I admit that. I watched it, and he wasn't a world beater at all.

The thing that I think will make Cam end up being what Vince isn't and won't be, is that I think Cam has a normal-functioning brain.

It really just comes down to that, IMO. Brains.
not necessarily brains, i think what it will be is that he'll get a chance to sit & learn & will be more receptive to coaching...
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Old 01-27-2011   #56
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Default Re: Mel Kiper 1.0 and McShay 2.0

FIFTH SERIES
The Tigers marched 69 yds down the field, with Newton making his reads, converting several third downs with either his arm or his legs.

On the short throw on fourth and 1 to the FB who was slipping in the end zone, one can say that Newton took a bit too much off his throw.
My question is that why would the FB wanted to continue toward the side line and the CB?
He was open. He got past the goal line. Just stop, turn around and catch the darn ball.
Instead of going after the ball; he tried to sit down and slipped!
That pass was more than very catchable to me.
No score!
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