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Old 06-14-2004   #41
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I agree with Vinny
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Old 06-14-2004   #42
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I agree the disagreement over size is silly. I also understand the concern about Coleman's adjustment to playing FS, but I disagree that he will be a liability. He is still in the same defensive system so its not as if he's a rookie having to adjust to the speed and learn the scheme. He has played some games at FS for the Jets, so its not as if hes totally foreign to the position at the NFL level. The biggest adjustment for him will be learning the other 10 players responsibilities on the field. I believe that in our system the FS serves as the 'quarterback' of the defense, and its up to him to ensure everyone is lined up right. In the event that Coleman doesn't adjust well then we have McCree to come in as a good replacement. All in all its not as big of an issue as some people make it out to be. It will be interesting to see it all play out.

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Old 06-14-2004   #43
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The biggest adjustment for him will be learning the other 10 players responsibilities on the field. I believe that in our system the FS serves as the 'quarterback' of the defense, and its up to him to ensure everyone is lined up right.
The FS is called the QB, but it is only for the DB's. One of the LB's calls the front 7.
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Old 06-14-2004   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
Thanks for the clairification AJ. It is like I said, I still think he is undersized and a potential liability. A question mark. If he was bigger or smaller it does not matter - what matters is that he produces.

let me say that again in case you guys want to pull it out and put it in quotations on your next post:

"WHAT MATTERS IS THAT HE PRODUCES."

How can you disagree with me? Jimminy Crickets! Comming from another position that he has never started an NFL season at - leaves me a guessing. We do not know what to expect. Who cares if he played safety in Highschool or College! That does not always ensure a smooth transition to the NFL.

How long do you want to go back and forth with this? He is a liability untill he proves that he is not.
Dominator...first it is not all that uncommon for DBs to move around from CB to Safety or even vice versa (which by the way is an even tougher transition). You are correct in that just because a guy has a some expeirence in the past that doesn't mean he will be sucessful at the transition. However...it is a common move for CBs to move to safety at some point in their career (ie. Rod Woodson). Another example would be Carnell Lake of the Steelers a few years ago...he went from being a Pro Bowl safety one season to being a Pro Bowl CB the next, and he had never played Corner prior to that. Attitude and the willingness to excell as a team opposed to as an individual plays a large role in position shifts being sucessful or not.

I can also assure that no professional coaching staff would trade down so to speak taking (according to your logic) an unproven/liability of a rookie CB and create another liability by moving a proven preformer to a new position if what you say holds true. No matter what you think of Coleman the guy is an excellent cover man with a knack for pick-offs and he is now playing centerfield for us. Coleman IS the best upgrade we could have managed at FS giving the market at is position in Free Agency or the Draft, there was no one we could have picked up to improve the position more than he could have by making the transition. Also, making the rotation with Robinson gives us a better than average chance at upgrading 2 positions for the price of one.
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Old 06-14-2004   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
Your 22. I forgive you.
Wow, great argument.
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Old 06-14-2004   #46
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DC_Rock

"Wow, great argument."

"This is the dumbest logic I have ever heard."



So are insults.
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Old 06-14-2004   #47
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"WHAT MATTERS IS THAT HE PRODUCES."
Well, of course. The same goes for other players who will be at new positions, e.g., Babin, Wong, Pitts... The only thing I disagree with is the claim that Coleman is undersized, which if he is undersized, then about 80% of the FS's in the league are undersized. If the point is now whether player X will produce because he is "out of position," then that's a totally different argument which is more difficult to prove one way or another.

I happen to think he will be as good or better at FS than he was at CB the last two seasons. He has the physical ability to cover from the top -- it's more a matter of what goes on in his head and whether seeing the entire field is confusing to him after spending so many years looking at eyes and numbers. His problems on run support were usually due to getting caught out of position by overpursuing or being drawn inside and losing outside contain.
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Old 06-14-2004   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
Jimminy Crickets!
Who says that any more? What are you 80 years old?

DD I really disagree with about everything you have said in this thread. From your take on Coleman to your looking down on DC for being young. Your arguments are basically "I feel the way I feel and to be damned with the facts!!"
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Old 06-14-2004   #49
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Look guys - all I am saying is that Coleman is a question mark. There is a spirited debate on both sides here and I can absolutley understand and appreciate that. My view is my view. I acknokledged Colemans ball hawking abilities and his speed and how good of a corner that he is. And that is super. There is just more here then some think.

It may *not* be tough for Coleman to transition. And you know what, if that is the case - then I would be the happiest Texan fan that you will ever see. But that is yet to be seen because the season has not started.

It is almost as though by pointing out a valid concern folks see me as disloyal. That is just plain silly talk.

I want Coleman to do well. I really do. The coaching staff thinks that he will do well or they would not have put him there. And apparently there are a bunch of fans who think the same. I however, am not sold. I am iffy about a player who is playing out of position despite his experience in the secondary. And everyone, coaches and fans alike, no matter if your mind is changed or not, will wonder the same thing through and through untill that player passes his test.

To give you an analogy - it is not guilty untill proven innocent. It is more like a chemical engineer being tested and asked to perform in a mechanical engineering field - sort of speak. It is engineering but different disciplines. Or vice verses - a ME asked to perfom and be tested in chemical engineering. He can do it - but it is not his specialty. (no disrespect to any Chem-E's that are out there)

Either way there will be adjustments - and that adjustment period will result in some ugly looking plays where we will be left wondering if we have all of the 11 defenders on the field. That is my point. Not Colemans size, or speed, or abilities, but the transition to another position.

But I am left to ask who is better to put there? The answer is that there is no one who is better. There is no player that the Texans could put at FS who would do better job then Coleman, period. So the Texans will do what they must. It is not ideal which is why it is in question.

All in all I think that Coleman will be adequate. Not a Pro-Bowler.

Here is a thought: How many innumerable examples in NFL history are there where a player in the secondary has changed positions and it NOT work out? We can mention with myopia all day long the examples of players who it has worked for. Can someone do some research and find that out? That would be great.

Anyway, I am not trying to stirr up a bee's nest. I was just stating a valid point that people need to look a little closer at. If you think that the secondary is this teams strength then make your case. I do not believe that it is. And I think a large part of that is in Coleman playing out of position.
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Old 06-14-2004   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
Your arguments are basically "I feel the way I feel and to be damned with the facts!!"

I want the facts - I am sorry if that has not been clear.
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Old 06-14-2004   #51
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It is almost as though by pointing out a valid concern folks see me as disloyal.
Dominator--IMO most of the folks on this MB, particularly some of those you have encountered in this thread such as aj, theOgre and J-Man, are more than willing to discuss concerns and often raise non-rose colored glasses points themselves. JMO but your concern about the position switch got largely lost because your dogged position on Coleman's size marred the perceived validity of your post.
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Old 06-14-2004   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
Here is a thought: How many innumerable examples in NFL history are there where a player in the secondary has changed positions and it NOT work out? We can mention with myopia all day long the examples of players who it has worked for. Can someone do some research and find that out? That would be great.
Here's another thought: Since you are questioning whether Coleman can make the transition from corner to safety, maybe you should "do some research" regarding the past failures of players making similar position changes. Isn't it your responsibility to uphold your side of a debate? That would be even greater.

Speaking of undersized, out-of-position types making the transition from corner to FS, the Pats' Eugene Wilson did a pretty good job last season as a rookie.
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Old 06-14-2004   #53
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It would be like drinking from a firehose Lucky. My request was not entirely sincere.
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Old 06-14-2004   #54
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on the bright side. If coleman doesn't work out... McCree is still here also If Coleman doesn't work out.. He is still an upgrade over Stevens (did I say that outloud? ). If Daunte struggles, well we can shift Coleman back to CB.. It is great that we finally have some options on this team.

I hope Coleman can do it. I could be wrong,but I figure it is alot easier to switch from CB to FS then vice versa.
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Old 06-14-2004   #55
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From someone who has a pretty good idea what he is talking about--Aaron Glenn:

Quote:
“Marcus is a no-brainer,” teammate Aaron Glenn said about Coleman’s success in a new position. “That guy is probably one of the better athletes in this league and for him to accept the role of leaving cornerback and moving to free safety, a lot of guys can’t do that.

“He accepted it and he’s out there making plays and he’s getting out to the middle of the field better than any safety I’ve seen in a while so I think he’s going to do a good job for us at the safety position.”
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Old 06-15-2004   #56
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Quote:
"WHAT MATTERS IS THAT HE PRODUCES."

Not Colemans size, or speed, or abilities, but the transition to another position.

Coleman is undersized and is playing out of position, we have a talented yet rookie corner who will be tested early and often, and a banged up veteran for the other corner who is only very very good when healthy.
Should've posted....

-Coleman is playing out of position, we have a talented yet rookie corner who will be tested early and often, and a banged up veteran for the other corner who is only very very good when healthy.
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Old 07-03-2004   #57
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Good piece with a few Texans mentioned and Babins salary at the bottom of the page. Seems that word around the league is that Marcus Robinson is converting to Safety with ease.

By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com

Quote:
If the suggestions are really legitimate that Marcus Coleman has made the transition from cornerback to free safety with incredible adroitness this spring -- and even the veteran defensive back acknowledges that the reports skew the reality -- the Houston Texans will have taken a major step toward shoring up their secondary.

But position switches in the NFL can be dicey propositions, even for an eight-year pro like Coleman, so one can only imagine the pressure on the seven or eight rookies who are being asked to change stripes in their maiden season in the league. The daunting task has been likened to learning a foreign tongue in record time, much faster even than they teach language classes at Berlitz schools, but even that analogy might understate the difficulty.
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Old 07-03-2004   #58
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Marcus Robinson must be a cross between Duante Robinson and Marcus Coleman.
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Old 07-03-2004   #59
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Marcus Robinson must be a cross between Duante Robinson and Marcus Coleman.
Our new combo player? I guess I had ex-Oiler Marcus Robertson on the brain when typing about FS's.
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Old 07-03-2004   #60
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Sounds like a good player to me!
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