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Old 06-11-2004   #21
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I'm not sure what McCree's deficiencies are. It could be that they don't see him as the QB of the defense. It sure isn't that he isn't good at interceptions. He had 6 in 2002 at Jacksonville. Don't forget that McCree just converted from LB a few years ago. As for Earl, he's a strong safety, not a free safety.
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Old 06-12-2004   #22
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Earl backs up Brown. He is NOT a free safety. McCree backs up Coleman.
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Old 06-13-2004   #23
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I don't think Earl is really quite the same time frame as Hollings for several reasons.

First, Hollings was injured earlier in the season, after only 3-4 games. Earl was injured about a month later in the season, so he will probably take about a month longer to rehab. Hollings was actually way ahead of schedule and was able to practice at the beginning of training camp, although he was a little limited. I don't know if Earl is going to be ready to go at the beginning of camp.

More importantly, there is a little more depth at strong safety this year than there was at running back last year. There was a need to get Hollings on the field ASAP because no one knew if Mack was going to be the answer as a full-time starter, if Wells was going to step up as a second year player, or if Davis was going to be able to be more than a return man. There was a lot of uncertainty at RB last year, much more uncertainty than there is at strong safety this year. Brown has been a pretty solid starter the last two years and Walker has shown some potential at safety while being a strong special teams player.

I see the Texans being even more cautious with Earl this year than they were with Hollings last year. He may be on the injured list all year just so they don't have to make a roster decision about cutting either Brown or Walker, assuming Walker is fully recovered from his injury last year.
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Old 06-13-2004   #24
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Earl may see some time this year but my guess would be it won't be significant, unless there are a string of injuries. That, or he takes the league by storm and is on a mission to prove all the naysayers wrong.

McRee may surprise some people this year, myself included but I wouldn't bet on it. Heard whisperings he may even play a little strong safety.

The Lord project would be a nice one to work out as he sounds like a good character and Lord seems to be quite an athlete.
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Old 06-14-2004   #25
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I am out of state too and I find myself asking the same questions. Am I just overzealous in believing that we can win 10 games this year and go to the playoffs? Perhaps. But perhaps 10 games just may be hopeful thinking. On the positive side of things we have done a lot from year one to solidify this team. Our lines are powerful on both sides of the ball, runningback is set, wide recievers are young and good, tight ends are strong, and line backers and special teams are a core strength of the team. Our weakness next season will be our secondary. Coleman is undersized and is playing out of position, we have a talented yet rookie corner who will be tested early and often, and a banged up veteran for the other corner who is only very very good when healthy. So it is not like we can go into this year and say to ourselves "Man were set - there are no weaknesses on this team." Because there are and other teams know that. We will be exploited deep from time to time but we should be better at producing a pass rush with the acquisition of Babin. Hopefully that can generate some ill timed throws and perhaps some turnovers and interceptions. My prediction 7-9 to 8-8.
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Old 06-14-2004   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
Our weakness next season will be our secondary. Coleman is undersized and is playing out of position, we have a talented yet rookie corner who will be tested early and often, and a banged up veteran for the other corner who is only very very good when healthy.

How I Coleman Undersized? He is 6'2" and 210 pounds. That is big for a free safety.
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Old 06-14-2004   #27
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Quote:
Coleman is undersized and is playing out of position
Coleman is probably the biggest free safety in the NFL, and he played the position in college so it's not totally foreign to him.
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Old 06-14-2004   #28
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You guys are paraniod. Some notably sized safeties in the league for you critics.

Earl, Glenn SS 6-1 222
Taylor, Sean S 6-2 231
Lynch, John S 6' 2" 220
Jones, Tebucky S 6-2 218
Williams, Tank S 6-2 223

It didnt take long to find either. Coleman is tall and thin and undersized. No insult to him but I don't think that he is a guy who can really lay the wood. He *is* fast and will help with some coverage so we'll have to wait and see. And I don't buy the fact that he played college safety either - what has that got to do with the price of tea in China? He's been playing corner much longer. I am right on this one, sorry.
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Old 06-14-2004   #29
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undersized?

Brian Dawkins
Height: 6-0
Weight: 205

Ed Reed
Height: 5-11
Weight: 205

Rod Woodson
Height: 6-0
Weight: 205

Darren Sharper & Marcus Coleman
Height: 6-2
Weight: 210
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Old 06-14-2004   #30
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I think Coleman is a great size for safety. And just because you think he cant "lay the wood", doesnt mean he is undersized.

Just because a DT doesnt get alot of sacks, doesnt mean he isnt a good player. He could be stuffing the line.

I think we should wait to see him in action.
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Old 06-14-2004   #31
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Quote:
Earl, Glenn SS 6-1 222
Taylor, Sean S 6-2 231
Lynch, John S 6' 2" 220
Jones, Tebucky S 6-2 218
Williams, Tank S 6-2 223

It didnt take long to find either.
Showing that Coleman is not as big as the biggest five safeties in the league doesn't does not prove your point that he is undersized--to prove that you need to show that he is one of the bottom 5-10 free safeties. By the way the list above includes three strong safeties--only Sean Taylor (who was hyped in this draft in part because he was huge for a FS) and Tebucky Jones are FS's.
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Old 06-14-2004   #32
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Does anyone remember the Bengal safety David Fulcher? I think he was listed at 230 lbs, but looked closer to 250. Compared to Fulcher, Coleman is very undersized.

In a side note, Fulcher was probably the most dominant defensive player in Madden '93. He could play like a LB on the line or cover WR's. Awesome baby!
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Old 06-14-2004   #33
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Coleman is not undersized for a FS. In my eyes he is built more like a FS than a CB. I think he will make a better FS than CB.
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Old 06-14-2004   #34
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Fine. I still think that he is small and that he has to show that he can hit.

And really I don't care how big a guy is as long as he is a player and can produce. Do I really care if he is 6'2 210. No. Do I care that there are others who are the same size that are stellar safeties? No. And neither should anyone else. We are talking about Coleman. But untill he gets accomidated to playing safety in professional football I consider him the weak link in the secondary - of course along with Dunta since his is a rookie.

Let me ask you guys this question: Him moving to safety, is he now the strength of this secondary?

Absolutely not. He is a question mark. And a potential liability. Why do you think we drafted Earl? We do not know how MC will make the transition to safety. I guess you guys think that players can just up and switch a position like one could just up and change his boxer shorts. It is not easy. There is no gague or tangible mechanism that could quantify how Coleman will do. I *do* know this - he is fast and is a decient tackler and was a solid corner. Beyond that, I am sorry - I am being realistic. Coleman *is* playing out of position and as far as I am concerned he is a little on the lean side for me.

Having said all that I think the Texans will go about 7-9 to 8-8.

Last edited by DominatorDavis; 06-14-2004 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 06-14-2004   #35
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Quote:
Absolutely not. He is a question mark. And a potential liability. Why do you think we drafted Earl?
As a potential replacement for Eric Brown--Earl is a strong safety. FYI--Jamaal Lord was brought in as a potential FS, but of course he will have to make the transition from QB to FS.

Quote:
We do not know how MC will make the transition to safety. I guess you guys think that players can just up a switch a position like one could just up and change his boxer shorts.
Folks don't think players can just willy nilly change positions--they understand that Coleman has played safety at the HS, college and NFL levels previously in his career. IMO at this point it is reasonable to expect Coleman to be a better than average coverage safety and that we will have to see how his tackling is before we know his real potential overall at FS.
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Old 06-14-2004   #36
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Quote:
You guys are paraniod. Some notably sized safeties in the league for you critics.

Earl, Glenn SS 6-1 222
Taylor, Sean S 6-2 231
Lynch, John S 6' 2" 220
Jones, Tebucky S 6-2 218
Williams, Tank S 6-2 223

It didnt take long to find either. Coleman is tall and thin and undersized
Lynch, Earl, and Tank Williams are strong safeties, as are Ed Reed and Darren Sharper.

Just for the sake of apples-to-apples comparison, here are the height and weight of the AFC starting FS's:

Coleman 6-2, 210
Bashir 6-2, 198
Grant 6-2, 210
Schulters 6-0, 202

Ferguson 5-11, 201
Woods 6-2, 210
Woodson, 6-0, 205
Lassiter, 5-11, 207

Demps 5-11, 205
Herring 5-11, 200
Little 6-0, 200
Logan 6-0, 210

Reese 6-2, 190
Freeman 6-0, 200
Wilson 5-10, 195
McGraw 6-3, 206

There's one starting FS in the AFC that's taller than Coleman and none that are heavier. If Coleman is "tall thin and undersized," then the rest of the AFC is really in a world of hurt.

Tebucky is the same height and 8 lbs heavier than Coleman. Taylor is a freak of nature playing FS at 230. Roy Williams is the other NFC FS who stands out because of his size.

To revise my earlier statement, Marcus Coleman isn't THE biggest FS in the league, but he's certainly ONE OF the biggest.

Last edited by aj.; 06-14-2004 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 06-14-2004   #37
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Thanks for the clairification AJ. It is like I said, I still think he is undersized and a potential liability. A question mark. If he was bigger or smaller it does not matter - what matters is that he produces.

let me say that again in case you guys want to pull it out and put it in quotations on your next post:

"WHAT MATTERS IS THAT HE PRODUCES."

How can you disagree with me? Jimminy Crickets! Comming from another position that he has never started an NFL season at - leaves me a guessing. We do not know what to expect. Who cares if he played safety in Highschool or College! That does not always ensure a smooth transition to the NFL.

How long do you want to go back and forth with this? He is a liability untill he proves that he is not.
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Old 06-14-2004   #38
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Thanks, I think I will quote you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
He is a liability untill he proves that he is not.
This is the dumbest logic I have ever heard.

Thats like saying you are guilty until proven innocent.

Yeah that David Carr, and Andre Johnson, they are a liability on offense until the prove something to me.


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Old 06-14-2004   #39
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In today's NFL you have to have FS's with coverage skills of corner backs. The Safety position has been evolving as the NFL has been turning into a passing league. Coleman at FS in a Division of Leftwich, Manning and McNair is smart. If you had a bigger, slower FS back there you are putting yourself at a clear disadvantage. Coleman is effectively the third CB on the field. Most of our division rivals thrive either in a 3 wr package or use TE's with exceptional WR skills so with Coleman as the FS you do not have to substitue players when the teams spread you out in pass situations.
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Old 06-14-2004   #40
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DC_ROCK

He is a liability untill he proves that he is not.

"This is the dumbest logic I have ever heard."


Your 22. I forgive you.
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