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Old 01-06-2011   #1
HoustonFrog
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Default Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

LZ put this on twitter...reposting

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...s-dont-fit-3-4

Quote:
Transitions from 4-3s to 3-4s can be tough and take time.

Understandably, there are questions about jamming Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Brian Cushing, Antonio Smith and Amobi Okoye into the new scheme.

I asked Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. for his thoughts on the move and how the Texans current key front seven personnel could work.

Let me say if you fear outspoken or want only rah-rah right now, cease reading here.

Here's Williamson:

“I hate it. Some guys certainly could work in the 3-4 and a player like Williams would probably be very effective no matter what the system. But, to me, the Texans have a franchise type defensive player in Williams -- and Williams is a great 4-3 defensive end and probably an ordinary 3-4 defensive end. Not to mention, they invested the first overall pick in the guy.

“Wade uses more of an attacking 3-4 rather than a pure two-gapping -- like Jay Ratliff vs. Casey Hampton. Still, I don't see Williams as a difference maker in that system, as most ends in such a system are just role players and not top notch resources. Antonio Smith would be fine at end and Okoye might be okay as a quicker nose tackle, but I also don't like Okoye to hold up against constant double teams. And the Texans won't have the heavier take-on inside linebackers behind the nose tackle to attack guards and the run game in general.

"Cushing is ideal 4-3 strongside linebacker and could fit as a 3-4 outside linebacker, but he isn't the pass rusher of a DeMarcus Ware or Anthony Spencer. Again, it would work, but a waste of an ideal candidate for the 4-3.

“The 3-4 inside linebackers are generally a heavy banger and more of a free flowing guy. Ryans would be fine as the weakside free flowing inside linebacker -- but he isn't a banger.

“To me, instead of changing systems, I would keep the 4-3 (4-3 defenses can work in this league) and draft/sign secondary help like crazy and maybe another defensive lineman or two. Now, the secondary problems are just as massive as they were with a 4-3 system, but they have to find new pieces to make the transition even feasible.

“Is Wade THAT good of a coach to make all of this worth it – especially with Mario? I highly doubt it.”
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Old 01-06-2011   #2
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

Call me crazy, but I'll take 3-4 guru Wade Phillips' opinion over Scouts Inc.

Also, to be clear - LZ disagrees with Scouts Inc. on this, as do several other informed guys.
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Old 01-06-2011   #3
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
Call me crazy, but I'll take 3-4 guru Wade Phillips' opinion over Scouts Inc.

Also, to be clear - LZ disagrees with Scouts Inc. on this, as do several other informed guys.
I'm not debating it, just throwing out the story. I do agree with the article though...as does Mario Williams and some players already...that they have certain players that fit the 4-3 much better. You can always switch, I just don't think it is a plug in the pieces easy thing to do. Wade's also coached a 4-3 so there is no guarantee he is going for broke with the 3-4
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Old 01-06-2011   #4
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

Judging from the past few seasons, the Texans don't fit the 4-3...
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Old 01-06-2011   #5
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I'm not debating it, just throwing out the story. I do agree with the article though...as does Mario Williams and some players already...that they have certain players that fit the 4-3 much better. You can always switch, I just don't think it is a plug in the pieces easy thing to do. Wade's also coached a 4-3 so there is no guarantee he is going for broke with the 3-4
The players are just whining. It's what players do. They'll all fall in line. Kubiak has confirmed that Wade will in fact be changing the team to a 3-4.
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Old 01-06-2011   #6
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

For what it's worth, Matt Williamson also referred to the Packers switch to a 3-4 prior to the 2009 season "A mistake", and wasn't excited about it

Quote:
There is a lot of talent on defense, but I still contend that switching to a 3-4 scheme was a mistake and unnecessary overall.
LINK

Seems to have worked out pretty well for them.

2008 Defense ranked 20th in yardage and 22nd in points allowed
2009 Defense ranked 2nd in yardage and 7th in points allowed
2010 Defense ranked 5th in yardage and 2nd in points allowed
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Old 01-06-2011   #7
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
Call me crazy, but I'll take 3-4 guru Wade Phillips' opinion over Scouts Inc.
Yup, especially when there are glaring errors in the analysis. "Heavier inside linebackers" - good job on that one since DeMeco is as big as any 3-4 LB out there and many are substantially lighter.

I do think it is funny to give any credit to this analysis which describes Mario as an elite franchise defensive player you should decide schemes on and yet some folks around here act like he is a bust or just another DE.
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Old 01-06-2011   #8
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
For what it's worth, Matt Williamson also referred to the Packers switch to a 3-4 prior to the 2009 season "A mistake", and wasn't excited about it



LINK

Seems to have worked out pretty well for them.

2008 Defense ranked 20th in yardage and 22nd in points allowed
2009 Defense ranked 2nd in yardage and 7th in points allowed
2010 Defense ranked 5th in yardage and 2nd in points allowed
Funny thing about that, the Packers are now the only 3-4 defense in the NFC North. The Texans will now be the only 3-4 defense in the AFC South.
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Old 01-06-2011   #9
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

I think it is funny that people find his analysis laughable. Afterall, they are so loaded with top D players. In fact Marcus Coleman just had a blog piece about how the Bills and Charges had a lot more talent than the Texans when Wade took over. LZ posted it too. I'll post it when home
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Old 01-06-2011   #10
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Yup, especially when there are glaring errors in the analysis. "Heavier inside linebackers" - good job on that one since DeMeco is as big as any 3-4 LB out there and many are substantially lighter.

I do think it is funny to give any credit to this analysis which describes Mario as an elite franchise defensive player you should decide schemes on and yet some folks around here act like he is a bust or just another DE.
Yeah, I saw this earlier and thought it pretty silly. Perhaps it won't work but his analysis that:

we have no "heavier LBs", not realizing Cushing weighs 260lbs... that Mario will struggle (not realizing what Wade did with guys like Bruce Smith and Patrick Kerney)... but that Amobi Okoye may work out pretty well at NT.

Umm, yeah, I'm not sure this guy spent too much time on his research.
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Old 01-06-2011   #11
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

Has there ever been an NFL team switch from a 4-3 to 3-4 defense and make the playoffs the following year?
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Old 01-06-2011   #12
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I think it is funny that people find his analysis laughable. Afterall, they are so loaded with top D players. In fact Marcus Coleman just had a blog piece about how the Bills and Charges had a lot more talent than the Texans when Wade took over. LZ posted it too. I'll post it when home
I don't take issue with him suggesting the defense will struggle, it's his explainations to why that are laughable.
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Old 01-06-2011   #13
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I think it is funny that people find his analysis laughable. Afterall, they are so loaded with top D players. In fact Marcus Coleman just had a blog piece about how the Bills and Charges had a lot more talent than the Texans when Wade took over. LZ posted it too. I'll post it when home
Looking forward to your expressed opinion, but having less talent seems to imply you have little invested in any system. I don't find this guys analysis laughable as much as I find Phillips' analysis more credible.

Besides, someone already pointed out how wrong this guy was about GreenBay about whom he said the same thing.
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Old 01-06-2011   #14
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Yeah, I saw this earlier and thought it pretty silly. Perhaps it won't work but his analysis that:

we have no "heavier LBs", not realizing Cushing weighs 260lbs... that Mario will struggle (not realizing what Wade did with guys like Bruce Smith and Patrick Kerney)... but that Amobi Okoye may work out pretty well at NT.

Umm, yeah, I'm not sure this guy spent too much time on his research.
Maybe he got his info from Mel Kiper...
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Old 01-06-2011   #15
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I'm not debating it, just throwing out the story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I think it is funny that people find his analysis laughable. Afterall, they are so loaded with top D players. In fact Marcus Coleman just had a blog piece about how the Bills and Charges had a lot more talent than the Texans when Wade took over. LZ posted it too. I'll post it when home
So what exactly would your definition of "debating it" be?
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Old 01-06-2011   #16
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Yup, especially when there are glaring errors in the analysis. "Heavier inside linebackers" - good job on that one since DeMeco is as big as any 3-4 LB out there and many are substantially lighter.

I do think it is funny to give any credit to this analysis which describes Mario as an elite franchise defensive player you should decide schemes on and yet some folks around here act like he is a bust or just another DE.
Only one I agree with is Cush, I see him going inside.

Okoye as a NT had me laughing. Dude get's pushed back into the backers on a regular basis in the 4-3, no way he goes into the middle of a 3-4.

I would imagine that he gets traded before draft.
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Old 01-06-2011   #17
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

Jesus H. Pass Rushing Christ, what are they going to do in a 3-4, get worse? Our defense will be much better under Wade. We'll have to wait to see if that translates into playoffs tough.
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Old 01-06-2011   #18
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
Okoye as a NT had me laughing. Dude get's pushed back into the backers on a regular basis in the 4-3, no way he goes into the middle of a 3-4.

I would imagine that he gets traded before draft.
Only if we're lucky.
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Old 01-06-2011   #19
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Has there ever been an NFL team switch from a 4-3 to 3-4 defense and make the playoffs the following year?
Packers did it in '09.
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Old 01-06-2011   #20
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Default Re: Scouts Inc: Texans don't Fit 3-4

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Packers did it in '09.
Then let's set the bar high and hope the coaching staff finds a way to make it happen.
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