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Old 01-06-2011   #21
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
but M.W never looked slow, our out of his league. If u can teach speed i am gonna go take a speed class and try out for the texans next season. He gets left in the dust and get even further behind the longer he chases. I'm saying M.W had a descent Rookie year and many called him a bust now K.J has the worst year and people refuse to call him a bust. sounds to me like people were still made we didnt get young our bush.
I guess we should look to trade for Heyward-Bay and convert him to a CB huh? I mean, according to you, speed is the only thing you need to be a great CB. Sounds great.

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Old 01-06-2011   #22
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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I guess we should look to trade for Heyward-Bay and convert him to a CB huh? I mean, according to you, speed is the only thing you need to be a great CB. Sounds great.

well lack of speed = why he is always giving up big TDs and u see him disappearing from the camera as the WR is making his way into the endzone.
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Old 01-06-2011   #23
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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Coaching WASN'T an issue....really? I guess Glover Quin regressed because of what exactly? How about the effectiveness of Pollard? Kareem always got that safety help that was supposed to be there in Wilson I suppose?

You've got to be kidding if you think Kareem Jackson is as bad as he was made to look at times this season. Especially, if you think it was his fault alone.

100% with this.

KJ was not the greatest, of this we will all agree, but he didn't get the support that he was expecting. Very little pass rush and I can't think of the last time I saw him get Safety help over the top.
I think just about every CB in the NFL would look bad the way our D was playing (probably with the exception of Revis & Asu) and the kid was a Rookie.
I'm all for giving him a chance for another season with better coaching and I'm betting he'll be a different CB next year.
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Old 01-06-2011   #24
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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100% with this.

KJ was not the greatest, of this we will all agree, but he didn't get the support that he was expecting. Very little pass rush and I can't think of the last time I saw him get Safety help over the top.
I think just about every CB in the NFL would look bad the way our D was playing (probably with the exception of Revis & Asu) and the kid was a Rookie.
I'm all for giving him a chance for another season with better coaching and I'm betting he'll be a different CB next year.
Allen didnt look as bad as him, and he had help over the top in our final game when nolan got the int.
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Old 01-06-2011   #25
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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100% with this.

KJ was not the greatest, of this we will all agree, but he didn't get the support that he was expecting. Very little pass rush and I can't think of the last time I saw him get Safety help over the top.
I think just about every CB in the NFL would look bad the way our D was playing (probably with the exception of Revis & Asu) and the kid was a Rookie.
I'm all for giving him a chance for another season with better coaching and I'm betting he'll be a different CB next year.
As you can see Ellis, Im not the only one that thinks this way. Open up your mind to this opinion being possible and it will help you accept what we are saying.

Once again, Im not saying this the 100% case, but it is more than likely what is going on. Once we get a proven DC teaching him, I think you will see a world of difference.
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Old 01-06-2011   #26
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

I fear that some of you might be traumatizing Kareem Jackson with your criticism of his play this past year.

Why don't we all just be sensible people, have a cup of green tea, and trust that everything is going to be fine?

Do we understand one another? I hope we do. If you have any further comments, I'd like you to direct those to our Quality Control department. Please include your full address so that one of our staffers can visit you and discuss this in, shall we say, "greater detail"?
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Old 01-06-2011   #27
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
i'm not saying the play calling wasnt terrible. But if ur playing man regardless of the play u should be able to play man, same with zone. it is simple u can either run with a WR r u cant, u can either turn and run with the WR r u cant. U have it r u dont.
You're assuming that everytime he was "out of position", that it was his skill (or lack thereof), rather than an element of the designed coverage.

When forced to play man coverage, KJ usually gave quite a bit of cushion (that's a coaching call) and many passes were completed underneath. When playing zone, KJ's job is to cover an 'area', not a player. At some point in the zone, there are 'handoff areas' where the coverage is either given to a linebacker over the middle or a deep safety.

For example: When the safety bites on a play-action, all the sudden KJ finds himself in UN-intentional man coverage and playing catch-up on a guy who was leaving his zone.

Sure, there were times when he stumbled in man coverage and when he was caught up in a double-move...it happens. But, don't confuse his lack of coverage downfield in a deep zone as him not doing his job.
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Old 01-06-2011   #28
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
As you can see Ellis, Im not the only one that thinks this way. Open up your mind to this opinion being possible and it will help you accept what we are saying.

Once again, Im not saying this the 100% case, but it is more than likely what is going on. Once we get a proven DC teaching him, I think you will see a world of difference.
u want me to research what exactly. i didnt show any stats, no theories, i pointed out the obvious from the season, he couldnt play man, or zone, and was always getting burnt. there is plenty of facts to support that he was easily the worst CB in the NFL if thats what u want.

i posted this on page 1 to u 2slik4u. figured u didnt see it so here u go, i want to know what i need to research
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Old 01-06-2011   #29
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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You're assuming that everytime he was "out of position", that it was his skill (or lack thereof), rather than an element of the designed coverage.

When forced to play man coverage, KJ usually gave quite a bit of cushion (that's a coaching call) and many passes were completed underneath. When playing zone, KJ's job is to cover an 'area', not a player. At some point in the zone, there are 'handoff areas' where the coverage is either given to a linebacker over the middle or a deep safety.

For example: When the safety bites on a play-action, all the sudden KJ finds himself in UN-intentional man coverage and playing catch-up on a guy who was leaving his zone.

Sure, there were times when he stumbled in man coverage and when he was caught up in a double-move...it happens. But, don't confuse his lack of coverage downfield in a deep zone as him not doing his job.
allen gets right up on the WR, and bumps thm at the line, so how come he can do it but quinn and jackson cant ?????? is that a coaching call ?
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Old 01-06-2011   #30
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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Allen didnt look as bad as him, and he had help over the top in our final game when nolan got the int.
Allen is not a rookie-main difference.

If I recall (and my recall is not as good as it once was) wasn't Nolan underneath on that play and the ball thrown short??

If not that would be the one time I can think of that he got support as he should have.

Just keep in mind that he is a ROOKIE and regarless of how "NFL ready" he was supposed to be, the way our D played this year he would never look good.

And to hold off the McCourtney talk-he was playing in a much better D than KJ and I'm betting that we'd be having this same conversation if he was our pick in the first.
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Old 01-06-2011   #31
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

What if, and just playing devil's advocate here, Kareem blew the coverage and Nolan just read the play and reacted quickly enough?

Was KJ even on that side of the field? Didn't record the game, so I can't recall it or watch it again.

Nolan has shown flashes of being a better safety than Wilson.

Just throwing it out there as a hypothetical. Maybe Nolan knew KJ needed that extra help and was already on his way to save the day?
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Old 01-06-2011   #32
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
allen gets right up on the WR, and bumps thm at the line, so how come he can do it but quinn and jackson cant ?????? is that a coaching call ?
Yes, it is.

Think of it THIS way....do you think O-Lineman get to decide who they're blocking and where they're supposed to move them on a given play? CB is no different - It's likely the coaches had him giving the cushion either to A) Help protect him against a fly pattern, or....B) To help disguise what the coverage actually was.
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Old 01-06-2011   #33
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

Why does everyone feel the need to start negative threads?

Nothing against you but more of a genral board thing.
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Old 01-06-2011   #34
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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Yes, it is.

Think of it THIS way....do you think O-Lineman get to decide who they're blocking and where they're supposed to move them on a given play? CB is no different - It's likely the coaches had him giving the cushion either to A) Help protect him against a fly pattern, or....B) To help disguise what the coverage actually was.
This ^^^

A CB plays whatever technique that play call required of him.
For example, when you play cover one (a single deep sefety) against a 2-receiver set; most likely, the coaches would have the CBs playing ouside technique to try to funnel the receivers to the inside where they have safety help.
There are different ways to play it, but this is one scheme that the Texans utilized often.
At other times, they might use a rotational scheme where they send the safety down to cut off one receiver that runs a slant while one CB rolling up top to become the safety.
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Old 01-06-2011   #35
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

I can't take anyone seriously who writes like a 12 year old girl.
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Old 01-06-2011   #36
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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allen gets right up on the WR, and bumps thm at the line, so how come he can do it but quinn and jackson cant ?????? is that a coaching call ?
Dunno what your signature is, but if it's an advertisement you might want to get rid of it. Just sayin
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Old 01-06-2011   #37
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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worst wasted pick since Amoeba Okoye

current staff can't eval defensive talent at all

TJ
This is something I have a problem with right here. Jackson, Wilson, and McCourty were all rated as late 1st round early 2nd round picks. Now initially I did not want Jackson, I wanted McCourty (Since he returned punts too for Rutgers) but I had no problem with the Jackson pick. Maybe when I have some more free time I can go back through the draft threads from last year, but I'm really sure that those guys were rated as being close together talent-wise.

I'm really tired of hearing Captain Hindsight's talking about how they knew Jackson would be terrible before he even played a down in the NFL. The Kareem Jackson pick was not the huge ****ing blunder in the secondary. It was telling Robinson, Reeves and Bennett that they could all go bye bye in the same offseason.

But yes, as of right now there aren't too many excuses that you can make for KJ, as he has been outmatched badly by almost every WR he's faced. One can only hope that he hasn't turned into a broken player in just one bad season, but right now he's looking mighty bust-ish.
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Old 01-06-2011   #38
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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Leave KJ Alone!!!


Seriously? We needed a new thread for this?

Someone help him up off the ground.



The OP had to get advertisement time for his sig ..... that doesnt fit the regulations
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Old 01-06-2011   #39
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

I'm not entirely sure the problems of this defense can be pinned on one thing. I think the coaches and the players share the blame. Injuries didn't help this team any. Losing Barwin and Ryans in the first half of the season hurt.

I don't know if would say Jason Allen was the best CB on the team. Yeah he made a couple of big INTs, but it's not like we were a dominant defense once he came on board. Wasn't he responsible for allowing the Jets to throw deep and get out of bounds at the end of the game? A vet should know to keep the receiver in the middle of the field and make the clock work.
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Old 01-06-2011   #40
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Default Re: Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.

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I'm not entirely sure the problems of this defense can be pinned on one thing. I think the coaches and the players share the blame. Injuries didn't help this team any. Losing Barwin and Ryans in the first half of the season hurt.

I don't know if would say Jason Allen was the best CB on the team. Yeah he made a couple of big INTs, but it's not like we were a dominant defense once he came on board. Wasn't he responsible for allowing the Jets to throw deep and get out of bounds at the end of the game? A vet should know to keep the receiver in the middle of the field and make the clock work.
In addition, you have to figure that opponents were probably gameplanning to get their best WR matched up with the rookie (KJ). Which means the overall talent of the WR2 on each team is being matched up with a more veteran, savvy CB like Jason Allen.

There could be some disparity there. I just think KJ makes a great nickel guy, but this team won't say that their Round 1 cornerback has busted down to nickel level. It's not in their DNA. Their DNA is to keep doing the same thing until it works, and we know where it goes from there....
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