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Old 12-29-2010   #1
ThruThick&Thin
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Default 3-4 vs 4-3

I just read Bud's interview and I noticed something he said about Wade being able to coach 4-3 as opposed to 3-4.

He said something like, "you play the defense that suits your personnel best." He went on to say something about "that's how I got into 3-4. We had more good linebackers than we did good linemen"

Houston Texans LB(s):
Brian Cushing
DeMeco Ryans
Zak Diles
Kevin Bentley
Darryl Sharpton
And a Handful of others

Houston Texans DL:
Mario
Damione Lewis (has experience in 3-4?)
Antonio (has exp in 3-4 from ARI, where they ran an exotic disguising D)
Earl (rookie is trying his damndest!)
Shaun Cody (yawn... fat a$$)
Amobi Okoye (10 dollars short and a week late)


I have been thinking about a swap to 3-4 for our team for about the past 3 weeks. After all, we are the top 3 worst defenses in the league. We have nowhere to go but up. Doesn't it seem like we could comfortably do this? Sure we don't "generate pressure" in our current scheme. Could you imagine having one of our tough guy LB's coming free every play? :O
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Old 12-29-2010   #2
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

Might as well add Bernard Pollard to your list of linebackers.
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Old 12-29-2010   #3
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

I don't think a transition to a 3-4 defense with our current personel would be difficult at all. In fact, we are probably better equipped to run it.
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Old 12-29-2010   #4
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

We have the personnel to run either scheme IMO. However, you're missing some key players on your DL list: Barwin, Anderson, Bulman, and Jamison. There are some questions that come up with switching namely
1. Is Mario an OLB or DE in that scheme. He has the measurable of a 3-4 DE but currentlt plays a role equivalent to 3-4 OLB
2. Who plays NT? Then again we're lacking a NT for both schemes
3. Are we neutralizing our best DL in Mario and Smith with the move?
4. Are our LBs undersized

I think 1 and 2 get the most attention but 3 and 4 are probably more important. Mario and Antonio have done a great job but we lack pressure from the middle. As 3-4 DE's their impact might be more masked. Adibi, Diles, and Sharpton would need to bulk up in a 3-4 for sure.
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Old 12-29-2010   #5
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

Switching to a 3-4 would force this team to do something they should have a long time ago, draft a big fatass to anchor the interior of our defensive line.
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Old 12-29-2010   #6
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

All this team is missing is a solid NT and a coverage safety. With Barwin and Cushing, they were going mix-in some 3-4 anyways. Injury ruined that plan.

Williams and Smith are already 3-4 type ends. Both have the power to play the positions. I've tended to see Williams as a Bruce Smith type anyway. They would be limited to only tying up blockers, depending on the 3-4 scheme they run.

If the team wasn't picking so high, I would advocate trying to sign Haloti Ngata even with the franchise tag. Alternatively, I think it would be a coup to lure Richard Seymour to the team.
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Old 12-29-2010   #7
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

The quickest path to this team having a good defense is through the familiar 4-3. Both the linebacker and defensive line units would need to be overhauled for a 3-4 switch.

I don't want our best pass rusher (Mario) 2-gapping as a 5-technique.

I don't want Demeco and Cushing taking on guards as inside linebackers. And don't even think about putting Cushing on the edge because he has no pass rush moves.

Amobi has no place in a 3-4 defensive line unit and he's had a pretty solid comeback year this year, IMO. Cody and Amobi have been very solid vs. the run if you didn't notice. The Texans are 6th in the league vs. the rush. This defense falls apart when the 2nd unit defensive line comes on the field both vs. the pass and vs. the run (go put on the tape, you'll see it).

My point is, if this team wants to be in the business of playing in a Super Bowl next year, a 4-3 base defense is the quickest way to get there. If this team can get an experienced 4-3 guy whose recently been successful in here they could be set given the way the offense plays.
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Old 12-29-2010   #8
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
The quickest path to this team having a good defense is through the familiar 4-3. Both the linebacker and defensive line units would need to be overhauled for a 3-4 switch.

I don't want our best pass rusher (Mario) 2-gapping as a 5-technique.

I don't want Demeco and Cushing taking on guards as inside linebackers.

Amobi has no place in a 3-4 defensive line unit and he's had a pretty solid comeback year this year, IMO. Cody and Amobi have been very solid vs. the run if you didn't notice. The Texans are 6th in the league vs. the rush. This defense falls apart when the 2nd unit defensive line comes on the field both vs. the pass and vs. the run (go put on the tape, you'll see it).

My point is, if this team wants to be in the business of playing in a Super Bowl next year, a 4-3 base defense is the quickest way to get there. If this team can get an experienced 4-3 guy whose recently been successful in here they could be set given the way the offense plays.
3-4 defenses come in 2- gap and 1-gap flavors. I think Wade Phillips is a one-gap guy.
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Old 12-29-2010   #9
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by MojoX View Post
3-4 defenses come in 2- gap and 1-gap flavors. I think Wade Phillips is a one-gap guy.
Did you see the Cowboys play defense this year? They were one of the worst in the league. And that was Wade calling the defense. I want a 4-3 defensive coordinator who has recently had success. Not only is the team not fit to run a 3-4 now or in the near future, Wade Phillips shouldn't be the guy to lead the charge.
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Old 12-29-2010   #10
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

Cushings best asset is his ability to blitz. He would fit in nicely as a 3-4 OLB.
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Old 12-29-2010   #11
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS View Post
Cushings best asset is his ability to blitz. He would fit in nicely as a 3-4 OLB.
Blitzing and pass rushing are two completely different animals. Dropping into coverage most of the game and occasionally blitzing all different gaps over the course of the game is WAY different than playing 3-4 OLB and having to beat a 300 pound offensive tackle for 50-60 snaps. Cushing's never done that at the NFL level and from watching him play, he does not possess many pass rush moves, if any at all. He's a natural 4-3 run and hit linebacker.
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Old 12-29-2010   #12
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
Did you see the Cowboys play defense this year? They were one of the worst in the league. And that was Wade calling the defense. I want a 4-3 defensive coordinator who has recently had success. Not only is the team not fit to run a 3-4 now or in the near future, Wade Phillips shouldn't be the guy to lead the charge.
I saw it this year. I saw it last year, the year before that, and the year before that, too. Saw the up years and the down year. Also seen the statistical outcomes of his defensive performances past Buffalo and back to Denver. Google is good for that.

1. Didn't argue for Phillips. Just pointing something out based on the latest rumor getting yalls panties in a bunch.
2. Completely disagree on whether this team can go 3-4.
3. Everybody wants something.
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Old 12-29-2010   #13
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
Blitzing and pass rushing are two completely different animals. Dropping into coverage most of the game and occasionally blitzing all different gaps over the course of the game is WAY different than playing 3-4 OLB and having to beat a 300 pound offensive tackle for 50-60 snaps. Cushing's never done that at the NFL level and from watching him play, he does not possess many pass rush moves, if any at all. He's a natural 4-3 run and hit linebacker.

Blitzing is what 3-4 outside 'backers do.
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Old 12-29-2010   #14
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
Did you see the Cowboys play defense this year? They were one of the worst in the league. And that was Wade calling the defense. I want a 4-3 defensive coordinator who has recently had success. Not only is the team not fit to run a 3-4 now or in the near future, Wade Phillips shouldn't be the guy to lead the charge.

We might be in the minority but I agree with you and don't want Phillips on the Texans coaching squad in any form. 4-3 vs. 3-4 doesn't really matter if we don't have the coaches and personnel to run either defense successfully. A switch to a 3-4 doesn't make us a better defense and although I think we could make the switch in one off season, it doesn't naturally make us a better defense. We could suck just as bad as a 3-4 unit.
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Old 12-29-2010   #15
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

All ya need is a great DC with supporting assistants! Cough... LeBeau/Rivera....
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Old 12-29-2010   #16
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
Did you see the Cowboys play defense this year? They were one of the worst in the league. And that was Wade calling the defense. I want a 4-3 defensive coordinator who has recently had success. Not only is the team not fit to run a 3-4 now or in the near future, Wade Phillips shouldn't be the guy to lead the charge.
Come now.

Bum Phillips has spoken. Not only is GK the man to lead this team to glory, but none other than Bum himself said his son was more than qualified to take over DC duties with a 3-4 scheme.
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Old 12-29-2010   #17
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by Dishman View Post
Come now.

Bum Phillips has spoken. Not only is GK the man to lead this team to glory, but none other than Bum himself said his son was more than qualified to take over DC duties with any scheme.
Fixed it for ya. Bum said scheme don't matter. Good coach is good coach, he say.
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Old 12-29-2010   #18
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

well the top D's all run a 3-4 so yeah just sayin
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Old 12-29-2010   #19
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS View Post
Cushings best asset is his ability to blitz. He would fit in nicely as a 3-4 OLB.
Cushing is a good blitzer for a 4-3 OLB but he isn't a true pass rusher. I know he played a hybrid rusher position some in college but if we move to a 3-4 I would bet anything that Cushing is in the middle with Meco. Add Barwin as one outside guy and thats 3 pretty good LBs. Cushing can still blitz to his hearts content from the middle btw.

Now that I think about it Mark Anderson wouldn't be a terrible experiment at the other OLB spot. Assuming they don't draft one early or sign someone in FA.
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Old 12-29-2010   #20
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Default Re: 3-4 vs 4-3

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Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS View Post
I don't think a transition to a 3-4 defense with our current personel would be difficult at all. In fact, we are probably better equipped to run it.
Totally agree and have said as much in another thread. We need a big fat guy for a NT and a new secondary (which would be the case no matter what defense we run). Other than that, there are pieces in place.
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