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Old 02-16-2011   #161
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I think he could play either, but I like McDaniel as a SS. I have him as my #2/3 safety overall (he is right there with Moore but behind Carter) and my #1 SS.

He has a SS build. I think he has the speed and athleticism for FS. He can really tackle. I just see him more as a SS with coverage ability than a ballhawk FS.

Like I said, I think he could really play either. But if we're looking for a true FS I would rather have Carter.
What's the deal with Deunta Williams this year?
I see that you think he will have the most successful career out of this FS draft.

I haven't seen enough of him, but so far, he has yet to impress me.
Perhaps, after the 4-game suspension, I should give him some time to get reacquainted with live action?
(I've only watched some early games.)
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Old 02-16-2011   #162
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I watched more Clemson games to bring the total up to 9 (the only one I didn't watch was Wake Forest (a weakling).

McDaniel is a ball hawk alright!

And in all 9 games I saw fewer infractions than I saw from Carter or Moore in just one or two games.

His biggest "error" may not even be an error:

On the strong side, the QB rolled out.
They also pulled a guard to move the pocket.
The TE engaged the SAM.
Seeing this, McDaniel stayed to watch the QB.

A TE screen or a QB run were possible (with no defender to stop it).

In the meantime, the wide-out ran a skinny post.
The CB couldn't stay with him and had to grab him, taking a PI call to avoid a TD (the ball floated to give the CB the chance to even grab the WR).

McDaniel didn't commit until the QB released the ball, so you couldn't say that he bought the TE screen.
And remember, since the QB had rolled out, he can easily rumble up the side line for a big gain.

Perhaps you want your safety to drop way back to help the corner just to be sure to avoid the long bomb, but you will definitely give up a big run either by the QB or the TE on a screen.

Even if we call this a bad play by McDaniel, I've seen worse a few more times over from both Carter and Moore.

McDaniel played a lot of deep safety, including in cover one;
and he looked great to me.
Perhaps we are concerned about his speed at the next level.
If so, what do you think his 40 time should be to be rated as a frist rounder?
mcDaniel is a good enough athlete. He just doesn't make as many plays as a guy with his ability should make. He has some off field issues and Rick and Gary wont use a high enough pick for him to be a Texan.

Carter while not perfect has the best hips of any S in this draft. He has great playmaking ability. The flaws that you point out are there and can be corrected with better coaching. The talent is there.

The S that I really want the Texans to take is Eugene Clifford. That guy is a player.

Do you think Andrew Rich has enough athletic ability to be a starting SS in the NFL? I have no doubts that Rich will be a ST demon.

If you're looking for the most technically sound S in this draft with athletic ability and will be a 10 yr starter. Tyler Sash would be who I would look at taking in the 3rd rd.
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Old 02-16-2011   #163
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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mcDaniel is a good enough athlete. He just doesn't make as many plays as a guy with his ability should make. He has some off field issues and Rick and Gary wont use a high enough pick for him to be a Texan.
With the "limited" amount of time he was back there, I thought he made plenty of plays:
- 2 Ints and 5 PBUs as a freshman playing part-time
- 1 Int, 4 PBUs, 3 FFs, 3 QBHs in his sophomore year when he played as a LB
- 8 Ints, 1 PBU, 1 FF, 2nd leader on team in tackles as a Jr.
- 4 Ints, 5 PBUs, led team in tackles as a Sr.

He was around the ball a lot.
The most important thing to me is that he's (99% of the time) where he's supposed to be on the field.
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Old 02-16-2011   #164
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Carter while not perfect has the best hips of any S in this draft. He has great playmaking ability. The flaws that you point out are there and can be corrected with better coaching. The talent is there.

The S that I really want the Texans to take is Eugene Clifford. That guy is a player.

Do you think Andrew Rich has enough athletic ability to be a starting SS in the NFL? I have no doubts that Rich will be a ST demon.

If you're looking for the most technically sound S in this draft with athletic ability and will be a 10 yr starter. Tyler Sash would be who I would look at taking in the 3rd rd.
I'm going to watch more of Carter as well as the rest of the safeties.

I like both Sash and Rich; they are somewhat of the same mold.
I do think that Rich has enough of what it takes to become a starter.
He surprised me when he was able to stay with some very fast receivers (in the short area, of course.)
I think Rich is a little better than Sash.
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Old 02-16-2011   #165
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I stand corrected,

McDaniel wasn't that impressive to me in the 2 games that I saw last yr. (Miami,South Carolina) Of course that was just the eye test. I didn't see any tape where I just focused on him. I mainly focused on Bowers and Jenkins.

There was alot of Talent on that Clemson defense (Branch,Bowers,Jenkins on the DL and Gilchrist and McDaniels in the secondary) They should've been much better than they were last yr. But they appeared undisciplined. This is what worries me about taking Clemson players.
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Old 02-16-2011   #166
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
What's the deal with Deunta Williams this year?
I see that you think he will have the most successful career out of this FS draft.

I haven't seen enough of him, but so far, he has yet to impress me.
Perhaps, after the 4-game suspension, I should give him some time to get reacquainted with live action?
(I've only watched some early games.)
There was so much constant change in personnel this year for North Carolina's defense that I find it hard to be very critical of their top guys. A lot of guys who weren't supposed to play very much this year got pushed into action and got picked on.

There are guys who stood out. North Carolina has an incredible amount of talent on defense. The problem was that they weren't all on the field at the same time.

Williams is a four year starter, which is a big deal to me. He has good size for the position. He is an excellent athlete, definitely a true FS. He has instincts, ball skills, and coverage ability.

His production was down this year, but that is because he was asked to play a lot more deep safety. UNC played more man than they usually do and he was used more as the deepest player, the last line of defense. And UNC wasn't tested deep very often so he didn't get many opportunities.

His previous three years the production was there.
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Old 02-16-2011   #167
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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There was so much constant change in personnel this year for North Carolina's defense that I find it hard to be very critical of their top guys. A lot of guys who weren't supposed to play very much this year got pushed into action and got picked on.

There are guys who stood out. North Carolina has an incredible amount of talent on defense. The problem was that they weren't all on the field at the same time.

Williams is a four year starter, which is a big deal to me. He has good size for the position. He is an excellent athlete, definitely a true FS. He has instincts, ball skills, and coverage ability.

His production was down this year, but that is because he was asked to play a lot more deep safety. UNC played more man than they usually do and he was used more as the deepest player, the last line of defense. And UNC wasn't tested deep very often so he didn't get many opportunities.

His previous three years the production was there.
If your investing millions of your dollars in a guy it must be based on as much information as possible until you can feel good about it, so his value must come @ a discount.
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Old 02-16-2011   #168
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I stand corrected,

McDaniel wasn't that impressive to me in the 2 games that I saw last yr. (Miami,South Carolina) Of course that was just the eye test. I didn't see any tape where I just focused on him. I mainly focused on Bowers and Jenkins.

There was alot of Talent on that Clemson defense (Branch,Bowers,Jenkins on the DL and Gilchrist and McDaniels in the secondary) They should've been much better than they were last yr. But they appeared undisciplined. This is what worries me about taking Clemson players.
Actually, I just started the Miami game from 09 (not quite finished with the 1st qtr) and McDaniel looked good. I will finish that game tonight. Not sure if I still have the Gamecoks game; if I do, I will watch it as well.

I understand how the D-line and LB plays can help the secondary.
But when you said that they didn't play as well as they should have, that ought to make the job harder for the safety, wouldn't it?
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Old 02-16-2011   #169
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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If your investing millions of your dollars in a guy it must be based on as much information as possible until you can feel good about it, so his value must come @ a discount.
And it does. I do believe that he will be the best FS out of this draft. But I wouldn't be able to pull the trigger on him early because there are questions.

The lack of production this year doesn't look good. But when I watch the tape he looks like the same player as last year. What looks different is the players around him. The scheme changed and he was given less opportunities to make plays.
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Old 02-16-2011   #170
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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There was so much constant change in personnel this year for North Carolina's defense that I find it hard to be very critical of their top guys. A lot of guys who weren't supposed to play very much this year got pushed into action and got picked on.

There are guys who stood out. North Carolina has an incredible amount of talent on defense. The problem was that they weren't all on the field at the same time.

Williams is a four year starter, which is a big deal to me. He has good size for the position. He is an excellent athlete, definitely a true FS. He has instincts, ball skills, and coverage ability.

His production was down this year, but that is because he was asked to play a lot more deep safety. UNC played more man than they usually do and he was used more as the deepest player, the last line of defense. And UNC wasn't tested deep very often so he didn't get many opportunities.

His previous three years the production was there.
I do keep that in mind.
But as my previous post indicated, a safety should have plenty of opportunities to be tested when he's on a porous defense.
(Even if he plays squarely in the middle, and the QB simply throws down the side lines all the time.)

I take into considerations only what the safety is supposed to do on a given play.
The guy who is supposed to be a first rounder should also shine in the "extra mile" department, especially when you think he will have the best NFL career among those in this year safety class.

I will try to watch some games from last year as well, since I didn't watch much UNC.
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Old 02-16-2011   #171
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

By extra mile, I was referring to plays similar to the one Antwine Perez was engaged in; one in which the receiver involved is not even his responsibility.
He made the play because he can see the whole field, reading all the receivers.

Similar with what I saw in McDaniel in one play against Auburn (no, not the INT):

There were 2 receivers on his side.
The CB took one.
The nickel lined up on the slot, but then walked inside very early far away from the slot receiver, clearly showing to the QB that he's coming in on a blitz.
One of the receivers; therefore, became McDaniel's responsibility.

On the other side of the field, the wide-out beat the LCB down the side line (the CB slipped).
Newton took a cursy look toward McDaniel's side then come back to the right.
Clearly, he saw the CB slipping and threw a deep ball to the receiver Adams.

The commentator said that McDaniel was reading the QB's eyes.
(I don't buy that totally).
It could be that he saw the CB slipping.
It could be that he knew the other safety was playing a little closer to the LOS and that the QB is most likely to throw a deep ball to his favorite receiver in a one-on-one situation so McDaniel jumped as soon as he saw Newton looking that way.
He went a long way to break up that pass, and that's the extra mile I was impressed with.
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Old 02-16-2011   #172
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Outside of carter and moore who does everyone think is the next best S. McDaniel, Sands, Sash, Williams, Johnson, Jarrett?
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Old 02-16-2011   #173
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Outside of carter and moore who does everyone think is the next best S. McDaniel, Sands, Sash, Williams, Johnson, Jarrett?
You've perty much named them all. But here's 3 more.
1.Eugene Clifford
2.Will Hill
3.Amhad Black

There should be a good one available in Rd 3/4. If you're willing to take character risks 2 of the best S prospects should be available in rds 4/5. Will Hill and to a lesser degree Eugene Clifford. They are better than any S currently on the Texans roster.
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Old 02-16-2011   #174
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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You've perty much named them all. But here's 3 more.
1.Eugene Clifford
2.Will Hill
3.Amhad Black

There should be a good one available in Rd 3/4. If you're willing to take character risks 2 of the best S prospects should be available in rds 4/5. Will Hill and to a lesser degree Eugene Clifford. They are better than any S currently on the Texans roster.
I was wondering who you guys all thought was the next best. I'm torn between mcdaniel and sands but I could see sands being a liablity in coverage so I'm leaning toward mcdaniel
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Old 02-16-2011   #175
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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With the "limited" amount of time he was back there, I thought he made plenty of plays:
- 2 Ints and 5 PBUs as a freshman playing part-time
- 1 Int, 4 PBUs, 3 FFs, 3 QBHs in his sophomore year when he played as a LB
- 8 Ints, 1 PBU, 1 FF, 2nd leader on team in tackles as a Jr.
- 4 Ints, 5 PBUs, led team in tackles as a Sr.

He was around the ball a lot.
The most important thing to me is that he's (99% of the time) where he's supposed to be on the field.
Oh, he makes a ton of plays. He made so many plays against Florida State over the years. I still don't understand why we didn't get him as a recruit considering he went to Godby, which is a block from FSU campus.

McDaniel makes big plays in big moments. That's the biggest thing about him. He's intercepted Cam Newton, Christian Ponder, Matt Ryan and many others. After he picked off Ponder, he trucked him along the sidelines and Ponder hasn't been the same since. He was having a really, really good year averaging over 300 yards per game in 2009 before that hit put him out for the season. If McDaniel hadn't injured him, we may be talking about Ponder as the top QB based off production. He was on pace for 3,625 yards that year. Ponder had more yards in 2009 in 9 games than in 2010 in 11 games by 700 yards.

McDaniel has been around the block a time or two; he is experienced and he fits a need. I don't see any reason he wouldn't be worth our second round pick. I would even trade up to get him early in the 2nd round if I had to. He is everything we have been looking for in a SS.
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Old 02-16-2011   #176
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Oh, he makes a ton of plays. He made so many plays against Florida State over the years. I still don't understand why we didn't get him as a recruit considering he went to Godby, which is a block from FSU campus.

McDaniel makes big plays in big moments. That's the biggest thing about him. He's intercepted Cam Newton, Christian Ponder, Matt Ryan and many others. After he picked off Ponder, he trucked him along the sidelines and Ponder hasn't been the same since. He was having a really, really good year averaging over 300 yards per game in 2009 before that hit put him out for the season. If McDaniel hadn't injured him, we may be talking about Ponder as the top QB based off production. He was on pace for 3,625 yards that year. Ponder had more yards in 2009 in 9 games than in 2010 in 11 games by 700 yards.

McDaniel has been around the block a time or two; he is experienced and he fits a need. I don't see any reason he wouldn't be worth our second round pick. I would even trade up to get him early in the 2nd round if I had to. He is everything we have been looking for in a SS.
I crossed McDaniel off my list when I heard about his 08 arrest for assaulting a girlfriend. He (allegedly) choked and punched her, before pushing her down a flight of stairs. I dont have a problem taking gambles on guys with character issues, but this is too much.
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Old 02-16-2011   #177
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I crossed McDaniel off my list when I heard about his 08 arrest for assaulting a girlfriend. He (allegedly) choked and punched her, before pushing her down a flight of stairs. I dont have a problem taking gambles on guys with character issues, but this is too much.
Yeah, you would be surprised how many players get arrested for similar things. I know Ernie Sims got arrested for exactly the same thing in 2005. He actually slammed his girlfriend down on the ground and kept pushing her down. I knew a guy who lived in that apartment complex at the time and he said it was bad. Out in the parking lot, just pushing her around. This stuff happens more so than people know about.

Teams will clear all that up in the interviews, though. The arrest was 3 years ago, so teams may look at that as well and see how he's grown.

I obviously don't condone it and would like to see that he's a different person now, but I am not here to critique the personal lives of these guys. I am sure that alot of the players in the NFL have done some pretty bad stuff in their lives, but I am better off not knowing about it. I just want the Texans to have a good football team to put on the field on Sundays.
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Old 02-16-2011   #178
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Yeah, you would be surprised how many players get arrested for similar things. I know Ernie Sims got arrested for exactly the same thing in 2005.

Teams will clear all that up in the interviews. The arrest was 3 years ago, so teams may look at that as well and see how he's grown.
I have no doubt that he will get drafted in rounds 1 or 2, I just dont want the Texans to get him. Drug issues, arms charges, underage drinking, accepting benefits, maybe even the rare misconduct is something that would not prohibit me from drafting a player. Yes, it would knock them down a bit, but these are young men, and these mistakes are the sign of immaturity. However, assault against a woman or child is inexcusable, any man/boy over 13 knows that.
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Old 02-16-2011   #179
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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However, assault against a woman or child is inexcusable, any man/boy over 13 knows that.
Agree 100%.
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Old 02-16-2011   #180
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I crossed McDaniel off my list when I heard about his 08 arrest for assaulting a girlfriend. He (allegedly) choked and punched her, before pushing her down a flight of stairs. I dont have a problem taking gambles on guys with character issues, but this is too much.
Sign him up, LOL.

If he's the top rated player on the board talent wise Rick and Gary should take him. I wouldn't have a problem with McDaniel at #43.

He's more fluid than Sands. With that said, if Taylor is there at 43 I'm taking him.
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