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Old 01-22-2011   #101
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

BTW, CB Minniefield had a really up-and-down (mostly down) game against USC.
He was torched 5 times by a couple of different receivers (one of them a Fr).
Maybe it was a game earlier in the season and his techniques weren't sound yet?!?
Otherwise, he looks physical; he dished out some and received some back.
Whhen he wasn't beaten deep, he stuck well with the receivers.
But it was an ugly, ugly game for him!
(Dowling didn't play in this game).
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Old 01-22-2011   #102
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Early impressions, I got:
Moore > Carter > Hill
Moore and Carter both look good.
Either one of them would transplant Wilson (probably) sooner rather than later..

Not enough of watching McDaniel to evaluate yet, but he isn't bad.

Sash plays
Post got cut off for some reason.

About Sash, he played mostly as a cover 2 SS.
I have some concern about him going one-on-one with a receiver/TE and in the red zone. (5 games is still a small sample, though).

About Johnson, I thought I saw him playing more like a FS.
Did he play SS the year before?
I know he put on some big hits last year, but this year, I saw him lost twice against the RB near the goal line (in 2 games).
What is it about him gaining some weigh for the Shriner game?
Did he play around 195-198 lbs during the season and is now listed at 210 lbs so he can play better at SS?

Another guy who just enters my radar is Andrew Rich (BYU), SS, listed between 6'2-6'3, 223 lbs.
He looks super against TCU.
Very quick to the ball (He had something like 10 solos and 3 assists in this game).
Made a big hit on the TE to jar the ball loose up the middle.
He ran with the receiver well a few times so as to dissuade the QB from going that way and broke up a pass on another occasion.
Even on the last TD pass by Dalton, he wasn't too bad in coverage.
(He made the low tackle that almost foil the nice catch.)
The WR just made a very nice in-out move on the post-corner route and Dalton threw a perfect pass.
If only the LB could have stayed with the receiver - another yard or two - to prevent the faked post look, Rich probably would have been able to defend that pass.
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Old 01-24-2011   #103
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Post got cut off for some reason.

About Sash, he played mostly as a cover 2 SS.
I have some concern about him going one-on-one with a receiver/TE and in the red zone. (5 games is still a small sample, though).
I love Sash but you're right here. I don't see him covering guys like Dallas Clark one on one.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
About Johnson, I thought I saw him playing more like a FS.
Did he play SS the year before?
I know he put on some big hits last year, but this year, I saw him lost twice against the RB near the goal line (in 2 games).
What is it about him gaining some weigh for the Shriner game?
Did he play around 195-198 lbs during the season and is now listed at 210 lbs so he can play better at SS?
Johnson has been trying to bulk up and for good reason. He is being told that he doesn't have the speed to play FS, and instead of getting an ego about it he is trying to make himself the most attractive SS prospect he can.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Another guy who just enters my radar is Andrew Rich (BYU), SS, listed between 6'2-6'3, 223 lbs.
He looks super against TCU.
Very quick to the ball (He had something like 10 solos and 3 assists in this game).
Made a big hit on the TE to jar the ball loose up the middle.
He ran with the receiver well a few times so as to dissuade the QB from going that way and broke up a pass on another occasion.
Even on the last TD pass by Dalton, he wasn't too bad in coverage.
(He made the low tackle that almost foil the nice catch.)
The WR just made a very nice in-out move on the post-corner route and Dalton threw a perfect pass.
If only the LB could have stayed with the receiver - another yard or two - to prevent the faked post look, Rich probably would have been able to defend that pass.
We're on the same page here. I've got Rich on my watch list but haven't been able to watch very much of him. My evaluation of him is incomplete right now, but I saw the same things you did in the TCU game. Very impressed.
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Old 01-25-2011   #104
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
We're on the same page here. I've got Rich on my watch list but haven't been able to watch very much of him. My evaluation of him is incomplete right now, but I saw the same things you did in the TCU game. Very impressed.
Yeah, we need to watch more of him. Could be a sleeper here.

Also, in this game, Tejay Johnson was kinda undistinguished, so I don't have a pulse on him yet.

On the other hand, I watched 2 more games in which Antwine Perez (Maryland) played (against Navy and BC).
He caught my attention in the game against Clemson (while watching McDaniel) with some good plays, including a terrific pass break-up - an article will follow to describe it, even though I don't think it did quite the justice.)

I want to watch the Navy game because I'm thinking we can find out how he tackles in open space (agaisnt that triple option run game, there should be instances that the need arises - Sure enough, there were quite a few.)
Perez looks like a very good open-field tackler (in this game and also in the game against BC).

Against BC, he also displayed good hand and eye co-ordination along with good awareness to make the INT near the side line (he had 2 Ints in this game).

Overall, in the 3 games, it's often difficult to tell the difference between Perez and Kenny Tate (even though Tate is bigger, around 6'4-220, and is projected by NFLDraftScout to be the #1 FS in next year draft).

They played interchangeably (Tate is brought up near the LOS more while Perez actually played a little more as a FS) and worked well together.
They combined to stop a couple of wouldabeen TD run near the goal line (one resulted in a fumble that Perez recovered). He recovered another fumble in a short yardage situation in much the same fashion, showing great awareness for the ball (and again, hand/eye coordination).

I think he could be another sleeper.
But can he do it at the next level?
It's interesting to find out that he was a 5-star recruit out of HS and was offered scholarship by 47 schools.
I found this article that probably sums up the whole deal:

http://maryland.247sports.com/Articl...or-Season-4381
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Old 01-25-2011   #105
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I like Perez. He really doesn't have that much experience at FS which is weird considering what a high profile recruit he was. He has changed positions back and forth until he finally settled in at FS this year. Had 74 tackles (4th on team), 7 TFL (3rd), 3 INT (2nd), and a sack.

I think he is definitely a sleeper and considering his athletic ability he may pan out as a very solid FS. Seems like he can do a little bit of everything. Very versatile. I need to watch more of him to see where I would grade him. I'm sure the lack of experience will hurt him, and I'm sure he will be grilled by interviewers about his transfer. We all know how every little thing gets blown up as the draft gets nearer.
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Old 01-28-2011   #106
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Here is my updated secondary rankings. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm still open to them. I've been able to watch a few more games this past week and I also watched some of the Senior Bowl stuff. Things will probably keep changing here and there as I catch up on the games I recorded this season.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami
4. Aaron Williams - Texas
5. Jimmy Smith - Colorado
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
7. Johnny Patrick - Louisville
8. Kendric Burney - North Carolina
9. Jalil Brown - Colorado
10. Davon House - New Mexico St

FS
1. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
2. Rahim Moore - UCLA
3. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Ahmad Black - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Robert Sands - West Virginia
3. Tyler Sash - Iowa
4. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
5. Da'Norris Searcy - North Carolina
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Old 01-28-2011   #107
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Here is my updated secondary rankings. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm still open to them. I've been able to watch a few more games this past week and I also watched some of the Senior Bowl stuff. Things will probably keep changing here and there as I catch up on the games I recorded this season.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami
4. Aaron Williams - Texas
5. Jimmy Smith - Colorado
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
7. Johnny Patrick - Louisville
8. Kendric Burney - North Carolina
9. Jalil Brown - Colorado
10. Davon House - New Mexico St

FS
1. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
2. Rahim Moore - UCLA
3. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Ahmad Black - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Robert Sands - West Virginia
3. Tyler Sash - Iowa
4. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
5. Da'Norris Searcy - North Carolina

Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).
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Old 01-28-2011   #108
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).
You do have a point. I like Prince because he is so physical. He can really press and he won't get pushed around much by even the bigger WRs in the NFL.

All three are good tacklers and solid in run support. Harris seems the most agile and athletic of the three so I can see that argument. Prince and Smith are about the same size, but Prince seems more fluid. And while Smith is no sissy, he doesn't give it to a WR the same way that Amukamara does.
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Old 01-28-2011   #109
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).
At the moment I tend to agree.

1. Peterson
2. Harris
3. Amukamara

I've yet to study the other CBs so I can't say about the rest.

FS
Carter & Moore are sort of running neck to neck for me at the moment, even though I start to see that Carter seems to bring a bit more phisicality to the game.
Williams has done nothing for me in the 2 games I watched; I wonder where the guy from last year is now.
Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature.
Yet to study the other guy(s).

SS
No complain from me on the rating so far.
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Old 01-28-2011   #110
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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You do have a point. I like Prince because he is so physical. He can really press and he won't get pushed around much by even the bigger WRs in the NFL.

All three are good tacklers and solid in run support. Harris seems the most agile and athletic of the three so I can see that argument. Prince and Smith are about the same size, but Prince seems more fluid. And while Smith is no sissy, he doesn't give it to a WR the same way that Amukamara does.
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At the moment I tend to agree.

1. Peterson
2. Harris
3. Amukamara

I've yet to study the other CBs so I can't say about the rest.

FS
Carter & Moore are sort of running neck to neck for me at the moment, even though I start to see that Carter seems to bring a bit more phisicality to the game.
Williams has done nothing for me in the 2 games I watched; I wonder where the guy from last year is now.
Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature.
Yet to study the other guy(s).

SS
No complain from me on the rating so far.


Have you guys seen any tape on Prince against another wide receiver besides Blackmon? I'm nut sure if Prince is overrated or Blackmon a stud WR because in the clips I have seen of Prince VS Blackmon, Blackmon makes Prince look foolish and gets passed him fairly easily for the TD.
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Old 01-28-2011   #111
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Have you guys seen any tape on Prince against another wide receiver besides Blackmon? I'm nut sure if Prince is overrated or Blackmon a stud WR because in the clips I have seen of Prince VS Blackmon, Blackmon makes Prince look foolish and gets passed him fairly easily for the TD.
Blackmon is pretty damn good, imo.
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Old 01-28-2011   #112
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I'm not going to change my ranking on this one, at least not yet, but I will concede that it's not a stretch to rate Harris above Amukamara.

I would put Prince no lower than #3 though. I don't think Smith or Aaron Williams are quite in his class.
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Old 01-28-2011   #113
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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...Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature....
I'm not too worried about Black. I would rather have a guy like him who has the necessary skills than a guy with the prototypical size who just doesn't have it.

I will say that the team that drafts him may try him out at CB to see if he can make it work.
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Old 01-29-2011   #114
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).
I watched about 6 games so far, and I'm not impressed.
I don't see him as a first rounder at this moment.
I didn't take down any notes, but I knew that he got beat at least a couple of times deep (on one play, the QB didn't see the open receiver; on the other I can't remember whether the QB missed the receiver or Price was bailed out by the safety.)
He was outmuscled by the receiver at least once, giving up an inside route.
On another play, he got beat and just held the receiver, taking a PI call (which is the way to play).
He was also flagged for a PI on another play.
And as I've said before, from time to time, you can see him putting a hand on the receiver beyond the 5-yd allowance in the NFL (but legal in the NCAA) to keep the receiver from getting separation.
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Old 01-29-2011   #115
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I'm not too worried about Black. I would rather have a guy like him who has the necessary skills than a guy with the prototypical size who just doesn't have it.

I will say that the team that drafts him may try him out at CB to see if he can make it work.
I'd really like to find out about all his measurables.
Also, I'm still studying him.
I like his game so far, but he would have to play pretty big consistently to convince me that he can be a legit starter in the NFL.
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Old 01-29-2011   #116
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I'm warming up to Andrew Rich now.
I've seen him against Ponder (Fl St), Dalton (TCU), and Kaepernick (Nevada).
They even moved him to single deep safety a majority of the time against Nevada, and he didn't miss a beat.

He would have looked even more like a bullet than Sash if he's of the same size.
One play that stood out to me was when the DE chased the RB to the outside and was able to tackled him low 3 yds behind the LOS. (He might have gotten the full stop without Rich's help, but it's hard to tell.)
But, at any rate, Rich was at least 12 yds from the LOS.
He read the play and reacted so quickly that he was right on top the RB just after the DE got to his feet.

There are several instances that he was put on a receiver and was able to stay with them one-on-one.
They even put him on receivers in the red zone quite often.

I'm inclined to (but not quite sure if I'm ready) move him up to the third spot in either safety position because he also shows good range as the lone safety deep, giving help over the top from side line to side line.

I don't think he has tremendous speed. He just reads plays quickly and gets a good jump on the ball.

NOTE: I've seen both Sash & Rich got beat when they stepped up too aggresively (Sash bit on the play action fake while Rich anticipated a short pass out to the flat to the RB and left his help assignment a bit too soon). But I don't see these as terrible, unless they are repeated!

Last edited by 76Texan; 01-29-2011 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 01-29-2011   #117
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Moore's stock just took a nose dive for me.
Against WSU, he got beat badly on a double move inside the 10 and was toasted for a TD.
On the 2nd TD (also in the red zone), he took such poor position and angle that he couldn't get there in time to help the nickel back to break up the pass.
In the second half, Moore abandoned his responsibility in his 1/2 of the field (in cover 2) and chased the route to the other side (receivers running crossing routes from both sides). That left the receiver wide open for a very long gain.
There was another instance- but it slipped my mind now (where it looked like Moore didn't do the job a safety is supposed to.)

Then, in the game against Stanford, for some reason, Moore misjudged the throw and strayed too far from his deep post position. The RCB was beaten a few steps by the post route (either that, or he was supposed to trail the play and to look to protect underneath route).
There were receivers running deep routes on both sides and it did not look like the CBs were supposed to drop into 3-deep coverage. In this case, Moore shoulda stayed back as far as the deepest man, but he didn't. TD!

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Old 01-29-2011   #118
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

.....

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

...

While I'm at it, here are some more plays:
- Amukamara was all over a slant route, but he was credited for a pass breakup instead of an PI.
- Amukamara held the receiver past the 5yd but no PI was called.
(The 5-yard contact zone is only an NFL rule. In college and high school, defensive backs are permitted to chuck receivers anywhere on the field, so long as they don't hold or commit pass interference once a forward pass is thrown.)
In this case, Prince didn't just chuck the receiver, he held him.
- On another play, Prince was called for PI (he had to hold the receiver as he was about to get beat.)

Last edited by 76Texan; 01-29-2011 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 01-30-2011   #119
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

.....

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

...

While I'm at it, here are some more plays:
- Amukamara was all over a slant route, but he was credited for a pass breakup instead of an PI.
- Amukamara held the receiver past the 5yd but no PI was called.
(The 5-yard contact zone is only an NFL rule. In college and high school, defensive backs are permitted to chuck receivers anywhere on the field, so long as they don't hold or commit pass interference once a forward pass is thrown.)
In this case, Prince didn't just chuck the receiver, he held him.
- On another play, Prince was called for PI (he had to hold the receiver as he was about to get beat.)
OK you've convinced me, maybe Texans take a look @ him in the second & swing him over to FS?
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Old 02-01-2011   #120
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
OK you've convinced me, maybe Texans take a look @ him in the second & swing him over to FS?
May be he still needs to improve on his technique?
I've seen him a bit high out of his break here and there.
When he stays low, he turns and sticks very well.
He may still be a good CB with some good coaching; his hips seem fluid enough (along with other positive traits.)
Whatever we saw on the field might not be the end product that we will see in the NFL.

It would be a good possibility to consider him as a FS in the second round; however, if Wade has already thought out loud about moving Quin to FS, maybe they will go for another CB in FA or in the draft, I dunno!
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