Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

[Texan4Ever]

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVeWn3bwWTg

Let's forget about drafting a CB, how about trading down and getting Justin Blackmon as a WR? Not sure if he's going to declare but having him gives us a proven receiver who can only excel under AJ and our pass-friendly offense.

As someone mentioned, trading for Oshimago Atoje (butured the name but you know the Rams FS) for some draft picks and or maybe some defensive players would not be a bad idea.

[Ole Miss Texan]

Originally Posted by Texan4Ever

Let's forget about drafting a CB, how about trading down and getting Justin Blackmon as a WR? Not sure if he's going to declare but having him gives us a proven receiver who can only excel under AJ and our pass-friendly offense.

As someone mentioned, trading for Oshimago Atoje (butured the name but you know the Rams FS) for some draft picks and or maybe some defensive players would not be a bad idea.

Man, I'm not real sure of Amukara after watching some of him... at least not a top 10 pick. Blackmon looks legit though. AJ Green is clear #1 to me and I'd love him but we're more in the running for Blackmon/Julio Jones as far as WR goes. I can't believe I'm (and you) even thinking of a WR but Blackmon next to Andre would be killer! Blackmon continued to impress in the Bowl game with 9 rec 117 yards and 2 TDs.

Get some quality FAs in here on Defense because it's clear we need some "veterans", then load up on some of the talented guys that slip to the 2nd/3rd rounds.

[Texan4Ever]

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan

Man, I'm not real sure of Amukara after watching some of him... at least not a top 10 pick. Blackmon looks legit though. AJ Green is clear #1 to me and I'd love him but we're more in the running for Blackmon/Julio Jones as far as WR goes. I can't believe I'm (and you) even thinking of a WR but Blackmon next to Andre would be killer! Blackmon continued to impress in the Bowl game with 9 rec 117 yards and 2 TDs.

Get some quality FAs in here on Defense because it's clear we need some "veterans", then load up on some of the talented guys that slip to the 2nd/3rd rounds.

If McNair decides to spend money on some FA and depending on who is available (or up for trade consideration) maybe we can try and bring in Ray Edwards (DE Vikings) and Otwge (FS Rams) in exchange for draft picks and or players.

Get the linebackers to loose weight or play the position they're comfortable with and find an OLB in the draft or via FA. If we do this we can go after Blackmon and have two legit WRs with a host of solid WRs who can come in on different plays which gives us flexibility on offense and makes our air attack that much dangerous.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan

Man, I'm not real sure of Amukara after watching some of him... at least not a top 10 pick. Blackmon looks legit though. AJ Green is clear #1 to me and I'd love him but we're more in the running for Blackmon/Julio Jones as far as WR goes. I can't believe I'm (and you) even thinking of a WR but Blackmon next to Andre would be killer! Blackmon continued to impress in the Bowl game with 9 rec 117 yards and 2 TDs.

Get some quality FAs in here on Defense because it's clear we need some "veterans", then load up on some of the talented guys that slip to the 2nd/3rd rounds.

think you hit upon the key to Texans draft, that is they need to address & hit in free agency their defensive ineptness. need experienced CB, DT & FS. then Texans can focus on BPA for their system both sides of the ball.

[SAMURAITEXAN]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I wouldn't mind if they get both.
Also, I've been watching a bit more of the Tides and I'm starting to warm up to Barron as well.
(I only watched one UCLA game so far, I do like Rahim Moore.)
If they can't get a FA like Atogwe, I hope that they draft 2 safeties and a NT.

Same here FS and NT need to be addressed especially, if we are moving our D to 3-4.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by SAMURAITEXAN

Same here FS and NT need to be addressed especially, if we are moving our D to 3-4.

And an OLB

Luckily the draft is deep enough that with Dunta's comp pick. They should be able to fill the OLB, NT and get 2 S in the 1st 3 rds.

The only way I wouldn't fill these positions is if A.J. Green was available. Then I would think about trading down. But it would alot. Green is a stud.

I like Sash,and the 2 Fla. S Hill,Black in the third. One of those guys probably would be available in the 4th rd.

[JB]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

And an OLB

Luckily the draft is deep enough that with Dunta's comp pick. They should be able to fill the OLB, NT and get 2 S in the 1st 3 rds.

The only way I wouldn't fill these positions is if A.J. Green was available. Then I would think about trading down. But it would alot. Green is a stud.

I like Sash,and the 2 Fla. S Hill,Black in the third. One of those guys probably would be available in the 4th rd.

I wouldn't take it for granted that they get a comp pick, much less a 3rd rounder.

[steelbtexan]

Dunta will be a 16 game starter.

On a team that has the best record in the league.

There will be a comp pick the question is how high. I believe that is tied into the $$$$ paid, % of plays played, and stats.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Dunta will be a 16 game starter.

On a team that has the best record in the league.

There will be a comp pick the question is how high. I believe that is tied into the $$$$ paid, % of plays played, and stats.

I think that pick comes in round 3 according to the metrics.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by SAMURAITEXAN

Same here FS and NT need to be addressed especially, if we are moving our D to 3-4.

FS is a problem always has been with this team. I'd really like to see an upgrade there.

As for DT/NT I think Cody could handle that spot and move 0k0ke to DE along with Antonio Smith at the DE's .... That allows Mario to move to the rush LB , their most dynamic player at the most dynamic position along the front seven.

If Barwin is able to return healthy they become pretty scarry up front. There was a drastic drop off in pressure due to his injury. I think he could be a real solid 3-4 OLB.

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

And an OLB

Im more concerned with ILB and particularly Demeco Ryans. The before and after of his injury is pretty telling of his importance to this defense. The Texans were 4-2 with him , including the Chiefs game and have gone 1-7 without him.
If you look at the Chiefs game under a microscope - they gave up just under 6 YPC rushing in the first half with him on the field and well over 8 YPC in the second half without him.
With Demeco that defense was just good enough to win , without him they have been just good enough to lose.
If they go to a 3-4 ..... The Texans could line up with MW and Barwin (pending he returns to form) or MW and Cushing at the OLB spots ..... the ILB spots are a questionmark at this point.
I really think a healthy Barwin brings an interesting dynamic to the defense .... which would allow Kushing to move inside with Ryans if healthy.
Giving them a front seven comprised of - Cody @ NT , Smith and 0k0ye at the ends (I really think thats 0k0ye's best position , 3-4 DE) MW and Barwin at OLB with Demeco and Kushing inside.
If they could add a FS with range and cover skills along with Pollards toughness and run support to the back end , that defense looks pretty formidable.

[steelbtexan]

Cant belive they were giving up 6 yds per carry (Which stinks) to 8 yds per carry. Which is pathetic)

Man this defense is bad.

But give me Bailey in FA. a NT,OLB and 2 S. this defense will be alot better next yr.

I dont thik this will happen given their draft record. (hope I'm wrong)

They need to give Phillips the pieces he needs and it still wont be enough to overcome Kubiaks' ineptitude.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Cant belive they were giving up 6 yds per carry (Which stinks) to 8 yds per carry. Which is pathetic)Man this defense is bad.

But give me Bailey in FA. a NT,OLB and 2 S. this defense will be alot better next yr.

I dont thik this will happen given their draft record. (hope I'm wrong)

They need to give Phillips the pieces he needs and it still wont be enough to overcome Kubiaks' ineptitude.

That was just the Chiefs game - For the season they have held opposing offenses to 3.8YPC which last I looked was top 6 in the NFL. That stat is hugely overlooked due to how piss poor their pass defense is.

Ive said it a dozen times this season , the main problems with this teams defense are a lack of push in the middle of the DL (as opposed to penetration or lack there of) and a lack of player on the bck end with range and cover skills. Pollard is fantastic for what he brings but the guy opposite him has to have a skillset which offsets his shortcomings.


Envision this -

A 3-4 defense with:

Smith and 0k0ye at the ends - both very disruptive guy;s who can penetrate but not hold the point of attack.

A solid NT in Cody who's big enough to get the job done and disruptive enough to demand a double (thats my opinion).

MW and Barwin at the OLB - both athletic enough to rush the passer and cover most players out of the back field or TE's. (believe it or not the biggest step back this defense took was the loss of Barwin.)

Ryans and Kushing inside - simply a dominant duo inside.

The secondary as is is questionable - but an upgrade to the FS spot helps tremendously not to mention the pass rush above should be near impossible to stop / predict.
Jackson and Quin might actually be servicable with a solid FS under the above circumstances.
I really like the NASTY thaty Pollard brings to the back end - I wouldnt trade him for a case of Shiner.

[SAMURAITEXAN]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

FS is a problem always has been with this team. I'd really like to see an upgrade there.

As for DT/NT I think Cody could handle that spot and move 0k0ke to DE along with Antonio Smith at the DE's .... That allows Mario to move to the rush LB , their most dynamic player at the most dynamic position along the front seven.

If Barwin is able to return healthy they become pretty scarry up front. There was a drastic drop off in pressure due to his injury. I think he could be a real solid 3-4 OLB.



Im more concerned with ILB and particularly Demeco Ryans. The before and after of his injury is pretty telling of his importance to this defense. The Texans were 4-2 with him , including the Chiefs game and have gone 1-7 without him.
If you look at the Chiefs game under a microscope - they gave up just under 6 YPC rushing in the first half with him on the field and well over 8 YPC in the second half without him.
With Demeco that defense was just good enough to win , without him they have been just good enough to lose.
If they go to a 3-4 ..... The Texans could line up with MW and Barwin (pending he returns to form) or MW and Cushing at the OLB spots ..... the ILB spots are a questionmark at this point.
I really think a healthy Barwin brings an interesting dynamic to the defense .... which would allow Kushing to move inside with Ryans if healthy.
Giving them a front seven comprised of - Cody @ NT , Smith and 0k0ye at the ends (I really think thats 0k0ye's best position , 3-4 DE) MW and Barwin at OLB with Demeco and Kushing inside.
If they could add a FS with range and cover skills along with Pollards toughness and run support to the back end , that defense looks pretty formidable.

I hope Cody can handle it however, I have been wishing for a big NT for quite while and I want some action from our FO at least to look at the NT position again in draft and FA or both. For FS, how long us fans been wishing to address this position? Too long right? I hope our FO look really hard this year.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

That was just the Chiefs game - For the season they have held opposing offenses to 3.8YPC which last I looked was top 6 in the NFL. That stat is hugely overlooked due to how piss poor their pass defense is.

Ive said it a dozen times this season , the main problems with this teams defense are a lack of push in the middle of the DL (as opposed to penetration or lack there of) and a lack of player on the bck end with range and cover skills. Pollard is fantastic for what he brings but the guy opposite him has to have a skillset which offsets his shortcomings.


Envision this -

A 3-4 defense with:

Smith and 0k0ye at the ends - both very disruptive guy;s who can penetrate but not hold the point of attack.

A solid NT in Cody who's big enough to get the job done and disruptive enough to demand a double (thats my opinion).

MW and Barwin at the OLB - both athletic enough to rush the passer and cover most players out of the back field or TE's. (believe it or not the biggest step back this defense took was the loss of Barwin.)

Ryans and Kushing inside - simply a dominant duo inside.

The secondary as is is questionable - but an upgrade to the FS spot helps tremendously not to mention the pass rush above should be near impossible to stop / predict.
Jackson and Quin might actually be servicable with a solid FS under the above circumstances.
I really like the NASTY thaty Pollard brings to the back end - I wouldnt trade him for a case of Shiner.

Didn't know that you were just talking about the Chiefs game. This makes me ? why the Chiefs threw the ball on 3rd and 2 from the Houston 38. The pass was incomplete and they punted. With stats like that they should've run the ball.

Defense has a chance to be much improved, I'm not a big Cody fan. But adding a big vet NT in FA and drafting one would solve that problem. Getting a S or 2 with speed is a must either in the draft or FA is a must.

The holes can be filled this offseason. However I dont expect Uncle BoB to open up his checkbook and Smith and Kubiak (if he evven has time to go to the Combine) will screw up the draft. Look at their history.

With that said, even if they filled all of the holes the best you can hope for with Kubiak is a one and done in the playoffs. Thanks BOB

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texan4Ever

I haven't seen much of this guy which is why I want to watch him in a bowl game but my conclusions are the following A.) Prince could be grossly overrated and or being hyped up by draft gurus purely based on a few solid games he's had and B.) It seems to me that if you want a cornerback who can take on a receiver without needing support from safeties then Prince is NOT your guy.

Also, either Blackmon is the next AJ or Prince really has technique issues such as backpedaling and getting himself in position to at least knock the ball away.

Back to Prince A.
I have now watched 4 games (Okl. St, UT, Mizzou, and Iowa St.).
In all honesty, I don't see how he can get a first rounder grade.
(I'll keep watching though!)

Neb mostly played 2-deep safeties.
Sometimes they would play man on the receivers but when they do, almost all the times, there are 3 safeties in the back.
They played more underneath zones than man coverage though, either 4 or 5 zones.
Prince hardly got off his man to support the run (and when he tried, his success rate was low - just to get off his man.)
In summary, Prince's area of responsibility is quite small comparing with guys like Janoris Jenkins who was used to cover man most of the times.
The Cornhuskers were able to get pressure with just the front four (maybe we ought to take a longer look at these guys.)
Also, Prince is one of those CBs who makes good use of the lax college rule "hand on the receiver" beyond 5 yds off the LOS.
Anybody knows of his measurables? He does have a good burst but I'm not sure that he's faster than Kareem Jackson. He doesn't seem to have an extraordinary vertical leap either! (Quin 38", KJ 37.5").

[Texan4Ever]

I'm under the impression that Prince Amukamara is being hyped up by draft experts who are purely going after his intangibles (which makes no sense to me). At this point, I wouldn't even go after him in the 2nd round because of the serious flaws in his game.

He is NOT a cover-corner and if he can't contain the top receivers in the NCAA, how can he do so in the NFL?

[beerlover]

this is pure specualtion my part but Prince Amukamara is the #1 rated CB because he is the top rated senior CB. The other top rated CB's are underclassman yet to declare intentions?

We'll know their status soon, last day for all eligible underclassman to declare early entry into 2011 NFL draft is January 15th.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texan4Ever

I'm under the impression that Prince Amukamara is being hyped up by draft experts who are purely going after his intangibles (which makes no sense to me). At this point, I wouldn't even go after him in the 2nd round because of the serious flaws in his game.

He is NOT a cover-corner and if he can't contain the top receivers in the NCAA, how can he do so in the NFL?

I watched 4 more games (Ks, Ks St, A&M, and Colorado).
In a couple of instances, he showed some flashes of his ability to stay with the receiver in the short area. The movements were fluid, the reactions were excellent (but only on a few plays). They don't throw at him much.
He had 5 pass break ups in these 4 games, two of them were somewhat simple, and just missed an INT on one play.
He played the run well in a couple of those games, especially in the A&M game (in which his production almost equaled the previous 4 games combined in run support, and looked good doing it.)
Basically, since they didn't throw at him much, it seems like the coaches started sending him to support the run (as opposed to concentrating on the receiver.)
I think he also have a good game against the Sooners but I haven't watched it yet.)

He was beaten on medium deep routes by the receivers a few times but the QB didn't look his way.
He stayed close with them on many occasions (however, he often made contact with them beyond 5 yds like I mentioned before, which was allowed in the NCAA.)

Overall, I see him more as a prospect than a first rounder.
(Depending on his measurables at the combine, a 2nd or 3rd round grade???).
I would probably have to go back to last year tapes to see more of how he defended the deeper routes (which at the moment I'm not sure he can be successful at on the NFL level) except I don't think we will be drafting a CB early.
(- If we're going to keep Allen.)

Dennard and Hagg showed up much more than Amukarama this year. If it looks like we're going to draft a CB, I will go back and look closer at Hagg (who is a Senior.) What grade does he have?

The FG/punter Henery looks really good.
I didn't pay attention to him closely in the earlier games, but the FGs he made in these last 4 games were well within the NFL posts, almost all of them dead center. I heard he made some in the 60-yd range during practices.

His punting is also good.
His longest was over 60 yds.
Due to his kicking style, with more practice, I think he can send them out of bound inside the 20 more consistently.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

this is pure specualtion my part but Prince Amukamara is the #1 rated CB because he is the top rated senior CB. The other top rated CB's are underclassman yet to declare intentions?

We'll know their status soon, last day for all eligible underclassman to declare early entry into 2011 NFL draft is January 15th.

He's a good college CB in that system where they can get pressure with mainly just the front four.
His production last year (2009) was good.
However, if we look closer, his INTs (5 of them, as opposed to zero this year) were mostly in games where the QBs were green and/or had an overall bad day. And don't forget Suh's presence.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

He's a good college CB in that system where they can get pressure with mainly just the front four.
His production last year (2009) was good.
However, if we look closer, his INTs (5 of them, as opposed to zero this year) were mostly in games where the QBs were green and/or had an overall bad day. And don't forget Suh's presence.

you know who he kinda reminds me of?



















Antrel Rolle, selected 8th overall in 05 by zona. later moved to FS in Arizona run to Super Bowl. & this year picked up in FA by the Giants. To me both are physcial players, good make-up for safety. What we see in coverage is slightly stiff hips, not fluid in change of direction desired for position. Is a system fit type of db with flexability to play all positions as needed. So if the Texans work him out maybe it's not as CB but FS?