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Old 12-22-2010   #21
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I can't see the Texans taking a corner in the first if this regime is still here.
They better bring in some veteran Cb's and draft one as early as possible. This secondary was almost historically bad. It's a shame the entire defense got a bad name because of them.

I have to wonder about something out loud...

Typically a strong safety is the more physical of the 2 safeties because he has to match up on occasion with tightends and ofcourse he plays on the strong side of the formation. I get the initial thoughts on a profile for the position...but here's what "strong safety" has come to mean...

Can't cover...limited range

Eugene Wilson is the only true Free safety on the roster. He wouldn't start for another team in the league. What i'd like to see is 2 Free Safety types drafted high who have man coverage skills, lots of range, and and a knack for interceptions...

Every Defensive Coordinator depends on turnovers and they spend countless hours in practice focusing on the topic. Here's a clue...

1. When the ball is in the air it belongs to whomever can get to it first.
2. If you want more turnovers, bring in defenders who can catch the ball.
3. Focus on safeties with a consitent career record for interceptions. (This usually indicates hands and instincts but not always)

As far as the strong safety concept (slow enforcer), if i want limited range, poor coverage skills, but hits like a truck players i'd put a 4th or 5th linebacker on the field.

my perfect draft =

rd1 cb
rd2 fs
rd3 ss (fs skill set)
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Old 12-22-2010   #22
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

5.) Ras-I Dowling (Virginia)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUDcKqcHuK8 VS. UNC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmWJb...eature=related VS. Various

Ras-I Dowling is tall (6'2" 200-Lbs) but has decent speed to stay with receivers and can shed blocks and get to the ball-carrier. He may have to switch to the safety position once he goes pro, which shouldn't be a problem since he has good hands and can hit.

He would project as a free safety and can help defend against the pass up top and does a solid job in coverage. If the Texans do draft him, he would be an excellent complement to Bernard Pollard or whoever is playing the SS position.
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Old 12-22-2010   #23
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I can't see the Texans taking a corner in the first if this regime is still here.

I just don't see Kubiak shelving Kareem Jackson that quickly...I think he will give him every opprotunity to be a starter next year...
I don't think shelving is anywhere near the term.
It has more to do with finding solution for the whole defense as a whole, and the secondary as a unit.

If the draft and free agency can only bring a good CB, I would definitely consider moving KJ to the FS position.

If we can find a good safety, we wouldn't have to do it.

That was why I was wondering if Dowling can play safety.
On another note, I just happen to watch a Maryland game and I found Kenny Tate pretty interesting.
He's a Jr and may declare. I'm planning to watch more of his games.
Anybody has an idea?
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Old 12-22-2010   #24
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I don't think shelving is anywhere near the term.
It has more to do with finding solution for the whole defense as a whole, and the secondary as a unit.

If the draft and free agency can only bring a good CB, I would definitely consider moving KJ to the FS position.

If we can find a good safety, we wouldn't have to do it.

That was why I was wondering if Dowling can play safety.
On another note, I just happen to watch a Maryland game and I found Kenny Tate pretty interesting.
He's a Jr and may declare. I'm planning to watch more of his games.
Anybody has an idea?


I'm not sure about moving KJ to the safety position, we drafted him as a corner and will probably keep him there for a few years and see if he pans out.

As for Dowling, I think he can play FS well enough because of his ability to cover receivers and still pack a punch when he has to go after the ball carrier. If we could draft him and coach him up, he would be a big improvement over what we currently have.
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Old 12-22-2010   #25
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Tate is super talented,big 6'3 220, fast a reported 4.4.

He's a former WR that has only been playing S for about 1.5 yrs.

For that reason I wouldn't take him until the 3-4th rd. But he has late 1st early 2nd rd talent.
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Old 12-23-2010   #26
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I think that Ras-I Dowling will be a better FS than CB. I haven't seen him much but have read that he plays stiff and isn't very good in his change of direction. He's got good size and will probably be a good FS.

I'll gladly settle for Brandon Harris but I'd much rather we trade up for Prince Amukamara. I think that the 2011 draft is a weak one thus alot of guys are going to go higher than they otherwise would and that would make it a good time to trade up.

I also think that this could be a great opportunity to really help out our secondary by taking a CB in the 1st round and a FS in the 2nd round. There are several good FS that should be available in the 2nd round since none of them seem to be 1st round talent. We could possibly have our pick of Deunta Williams, Rahim Moore, Quinton Carter, or DeAndre McDaniels. If we could pick up a good DT in FA it would really free up our draft to fill the needs in the secondary.

Last edited by Wolf6151; 12-23-2010 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 12-23-2010   #27
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I think that Ras-I Dowling will be a better FS than CB. I haven't seen him much but have read that he plays stiff and isn't very good in his change of direction. He's got good size and will probably be a good FS.

I'll gladly settle for Brandon Harris but I'd much rather we trade up for Prince Amukamara. I think that the 2011 draft is a weak one thus alot of guys are going to go higher than they otherwise would and that would make it a good time to trade up.


IMO, I would much rather have Brandon Harris than Prince Amukamara. Harris does so may things well (e.g. cover WRs, shed blocks, make open-field tackles) that I think he may be better than Prince at the CB position.
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Old 12-23-2010   #28
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I think that Ras-I Dowling will be a better FS than CB. I haven't seen him much but have read that he plays stiff and isn't very good in his change of direction. He's got good size and will probably be a good FS.

I'll gladly settle for Brandon Harris but I'd much rather we trade up for Prince Amukamara. I think that the 2011 draft is a weak one thus alot of guys are going to go higher than they otherwise would and that would make it a good time to trade up.

I also think that this could be a great opportunity to really help out our secondary by taking a CB in the 1st round and a FS in the 2nd round. There are several good FS that should be available in the 2nd round since none of them seem to be 1st round talent. We could possibly have our pick of Deunta Williams, Rahim Moore, Quinton Carter, or DeAndre McDaniels. If we could pick up a good DT in FA it would really free up our draft to fill the needs in the secondary.
Dont you guys think that if we draft more rookie secondary players that the same inexperience that showed up this year will show up next year? We should pick up a free saftey during free agency because we need experience in the pass defense. Prince looks good and i would like us to draft him but we have Kareem who the coaches arent going to give up on yet, Quinn who has been playing well lately, and Allen who isnt perfect but is arguably our best cornerback right now. Dont think there is room for another cornerback.
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Old 12-23-2010   #29
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by texanchris View Post
Dont you guys think that if we draft more rookie secondary players that the same inexperience that showed up this year will show up next year? We should pick up a free saftey during free agency because we need experience in the pass defense. Prince looks good and i would like us to draft him but we have Kareem who the coaches arent going to give up on yet, Quinn who has been playing well lately, and Allen who isnt perfect but is arguably our best cornerback right now. Dont think there is room for another cornerback.
Texans should, will address cb in free agnecy. Rick Smith should have never let the whole Dunta Robinson scenero get to the point it did, he was a foundation piece at least from an experience point the Texans have severly lacked without his leadership. Worst mistake of his GM tenure.

I'm all for adding one more talented cb via the draft who has the instincts & pedigree to develop into a first rate cb in the NFL. I like Minnifield (Virginia) in 2nd and/or Carmichael in 3rd (Virginia Tech).
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Old 12-23-2010   #30
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Prince looks good and i would like us to draft him but we have Kareem who the coaches arent going to give up on yet, Quinn who has been playing well lately, and Allen who isnt perfect but is arguably our best cornerback right now. Dont think there is room for another cornerback.

You do realize that teams carry more than 3 CB's, the Texans have 6 on their roster. I'm sure that a 1st round CB would improve the talent level and make a roster leach like Antwaun Molden expendable. We currently have 1 guy who's average at best, Allen, 2 guys that have potential, Quinn and Jackson, and 3 guys that suck, McCain, McManis, and Molden. No more CB's who's last name starts with an "M".
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Old 12-23-2010   #31
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I don't think shelving is anywhere near the term.
It has more to do with finding solution for the whole defense as a whole, and the secondary as a unit.

If the draft and free agency can only bring a good CB, I would definitely consider moving KJ to the FS position.

If we can find a good safety, we wouldn't have to do it.

That was why I was wondering if Dowling can play safety.
On another note, I just happen to watch a Maryland game and I found Kenny Tate pretty interesting.
He's a Jr and may declare. I'm planning to watch more of his games.
Anybody has an idea?
I hear what you are saying, but this staff has not shown that they will do what you are talking about...

Maybe since the bottom fell out on him Kubiak will be willing to do some things differently, but based on past history, Kubiak is loyal to his players for a bit longer than he should be loyal to them...
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Old 12-23-2010   #32
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by texanchris View Post
Dont you guys think that if we draft more rookie secondary players that the same inexperience that showed up this year will show up next year? We should pick up a free saftey during free agency because we need experience in the pass defense. Prince looks good and i would like us to draft him but we have Kareem who the coaches arent going to give up on yet, Quinn who has been playing well lately, and Allen who isnt perfect but is arguably our best cornerback right now. Dont think there is room for another cornerback.
Disagree

A great CB via FA or the draft improves the secondary immensley. I dont care how many average CB's are on the roster. With that said the LB,S,DT positions have more value in this draft. IMHO
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Old 12-24-2010   #33
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

The Texans have 4 obvious weaknesses on defense DT, CB, FS, and WLB. Not all of these positions can be filled with starter level talent in one draft. I think the Texans will look at the problem from a monetary point of view as it relates to FA as well as a talent/draft pick point of view. DT's and CB's are much more expensive in FA than FS and WLB thus I think the Texans will most likely try to fill the WLB and FS in FA and DT and CB in the draft. Of course all of this is speculation at best since the CBA and possible new head coach issues are still up in the air. I also think that our very young CB's would benefit from an experienced FS backing them up more than an experienced CB with a rookie FS.
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Old 12-24-2010   #34
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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The Texans have 4 obvious weaknesses on defense DT, CB, FS, and WLB. Not all of these positions can be filled with starter level talent in one draft. I think the Texans will look at the problem from a monetary point of view as it relates to FA as well as a talent/draft pick point of view. DT's and CB's are much more expensive in FA than FS and WLB thus I think the Texans will most likely try to fill the WLB and FS in FA and DT and CB in the draft. Of course all of this is speculation at best since the CBA and possible new head coach issues are still up in the air. I also think that our very young CB's would benefit from an experienced FS backing them up more than an experienced CB with a rookie FS.
we have an experienced FS via free agency, his name is Eugene Wilson. point is whatever the position, elite talent brings an elite price tag regardless. Lets spend some of Bob McNairs money for him that he's saving by retaining Kubiak & Company, sign Champ Bailey.

that's what I want the Texans to do for a belated Christmas present
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Old 12-24-2010   #35
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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The Texans have 4 obvious weaknesses on defense DT, CB, FS, and WLB. Not all of these positions can be filled with starter level talent in one draft. I think the Texans will look at the problem from a monetary point of view as it relates to FA as well as a talent/draft pick point of view. DT's and CB's are much more expensive in FA than FS and WLB thus I think the Texans will most likely try to fill the WLB and FS in FA and DT and CB in the draft. Of course all of this is speculation at best since the CBA and possible new head coach issues are still up in the air. I also think that our very young CB's would benefit from an experienced FS backing them up more than an experienced CB with a rookie FS.
There are some very good S in this draft. If R.Smith does his job and I question his ablilities. He should be able to fill 3 of the 4 needs in FA. Adding a cheaper DT in FA like Abrayou Franklin or Barry Coffield would help give a guy that can help give a push in the middle that this team has been lacking since Seth Payne left.

Then in the draft guys that should be available in rds 1-4 to fill the needs will be there. Guys that I know you like

Rd.1 Harris or Miller
Rd.2 Herzlich or Minniefield
Rd.3 Amhad Black or Steven Friday
Rd.4 Will Hill or Nate Irving

You can fill these spots of weakness by trading up to the bottom of rds 2/3. But R.Smith has to be agressive and smart. After he spends hours of watching film himself. Instead of just relying on his scouts notes.

It requires hard work that so far in R.Smith's drafts it has become apparent he has not been willing or is incapable of doing. But the players will be there it's Smith's job to find those players.

It would help if Kubes would schedule his offseason surgeries at a time when the Combine isn't happening.
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Old 12-24-2010   #36
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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There are some very good S in this draft.
There are definitely some good ones to be had in this draft. Guys like DeAndre McDaniel, Deunta Williams, Ahmad Black, Rahim Moore, Tyler Sash, and Mark Barron aren't blue chippers but they are all good prospects. We have no excuse to not get one of these guys this year.

McDaniel, Williams, and Black all have great leadership qualities to them and tend to get people in position before plays start. I don't know if that's part of being a senior, but it's difficult not to notice.
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Old 12-24-2010   #37
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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There are definitely some good ones to be had in this draft. Guys like DeAndre McDaniel, Deunta Williams, Ahmad Black, Rahim Moore, Tyler Sash, and Mark Barron aren't blue chippers but they are all good prospects. We have no excuse to not get one of these guys this year.

McDaniel, Williams, and Black all have great leadership qualities to them and tend to get people in position before plays start. I don't know if that's part of being a senior, but it's difficult not to notice.
My favorites that should be availabe in the 3/4 th rd are
1.Sash
2.Black
3.Hill
4. Carter
5.Sands

Williams will be gone before the 3rd rd. IMHO

After drafting a Sash in the 3rd, Smith should trade back into the 3rd rd and draft Black or Hill. That way the S position would be fixed for yrs. Smithiak wont do this because in last yrs draft the S position was very deep and they decided drarfting more TE's was the way to go. It shows how little Smithiak value the S position.

Although the CB's were bad this yr Pollard and Wilson provided little help over the top and made below avg CB's look like some of the worst in history of the NFL.
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Old 12-24-2010   #38
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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we have an experienced FS via free agency, his name is Eugene Wilson. point is whatever the position, elite talent brings an elite price tag regardless. Lets spend some of Bob McNairs money for him that he's saving by retaining Kubiak & Company, sign Champ Bailey.

that's what I want the Texans to do for a belated Christmas present
What kind of contract would you give Champ Bailey????

If I'm Champ, why do I want to come here?

Seems like it'd take some good money to get him in here...Much more money than any competitors are offering...
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Old 12-24-2010   #39
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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What kind of contract would you give Champ Bailey????

If I'm Champ, why do I want to come here?

Seems like it'd take some good money to get him in here...Much more money than any competitors are offering...
1. there is the Denver connection.
2. plenty of football left still only 32
3. better cb than Dunta Robinson

contract could be structured similar to Dunta Robinson contract. Big number 57 million but misleading in fact that its not all guarenteed, there are incentives plus team options where they can buy out contract early if so justified. Heres the breakdown on Dunta Robinson six-year contract, which included a $7 million signing bonus:

Hes sent to receive base salaries of $5 million in 2010, $5.5 million in 2011, $6 million in 2012, $7 million in 2013, $9 million in 2014 and $9.5 million in 2015.

Hes also set to receive a $3 million bonus in the second year of the deal and could also receive another $5 million in option bonuses.

His salary cap numbers are $12 million in 2010, $6.5 million in 2011, $7.75 million in 2012, $8.75 million in 2013, $10.75 million in 2014 and $11.25 million in 2015.
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2012 Draft was Mercilus
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Old 12-24-2010   #40
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I wouldn't mind bringing Champ Bailey in, he is a leader who is still feared by opposing QBs and WRs, he can provide on-the-field as well as off-the-field mentoring to our young DBs, and he can also help our offense out by going up against our WRs not named Andre and get them to improve there game.
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