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Old 02-18-2011   #181
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I stand corrected,

McDaniel wasn't that impressive to me in the 2 games that I saw last yr. (Miami,South Carolina) Of course that was just the eye test. I didn't see any tape where I just focused on him. I mainly focused on Bowers and Jenkins.

There was alot of Talent on that Clemson defense (Branch,Bowers,Jenkins on the DL and Gilchrist and McDaniels in the secondary) They should've been much better than they were last yr. But they appeared undisciplined. This is what worries me about taking Clemson players.
You made me rewacth the Miami/Clemson game in 09, in which McDaniel probably would get defensive MVP; so then I realized you must be talking about the 2010 game, so I rewatched that one also, LOL!
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Old 02-18-2011   #182
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

In the 2010 Miami game, there were a couple of iffy plays for McD.
One was due to coverage call, and since we don't know what it was we can't say who was at faulft.
On both plays, none of the broadcasting team members can either!

It was a peculiar D call to say the least.
The Tigers rushed 4 and dropped 7 into coverage.

On the other side, they had 2 double teams against 2 receivers; while on McD's side, they left 3 defenders covering 3 receiving threats.

The LCB took on the wide out, so let's cross that pair out.
McD played close to the LOS and jumped on the receiving threat that went wide; the 5th DB (Lewis, a Soph) also followed the same offensive player.

That left Hankerson (most inside, almost like a TE) all alone on a straight go route for an easy TD.

McD lined up outside the DB, so I would think Hankerson's responsibilty belongs to the DB.

It was odd that one of the defenders from the other side didn't drop back in the middle to watch for such a scenario, but it happened.
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Old 02-18-2011   #183
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I go by the eye test.

The way that you breakdown tape is very informative. I'm very appreciative. It helps me form a middle ground between what I see at the combine and from what I see on the field during the college season.

Thanks

Jay
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Old 02-19-2011   #184
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I go by the eye test.

The way that you breakdown tape is very informative. I'm very appreciative. It helps me form a middle ground between what I see at the combine and from what I see on the field during the college season.

Thanks

Jay
I like to observe the little details. They show how "football smart" the players are. Sometimes one can have a lot of "talent" but never realize their "potential".

In basketball, for example, Kwame Brown was hand-picked by Jordan and became an instant bust ten years ago.
Phil Jackson couldn't do much with him either; so there's no guarantee that a player can be "coached up".
I heard he's reunited with Jordan now in Charlotte; must be that Jordan feels he still has some unfinished business in trying to prove that he can find and develop talent!
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Old 02-19-2011   #185
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Anyway, before I come back to the second iffy moment for McDaniel, I thought I'd mention the 09 game first.
There was a play I think that have similiraties.

If anyone remember the Texans/Chargers game, I had broken down two similar plays (one by either team).
It involves a 2-receiver pattern with one running a deep route and the other running an underneath route, crossing from the other side of the field.
If the safety stays back to help defending the deep route, the QB would go short.
If the safety comes up on the short route, the QB would go long.

When the Chargers ran their play, Wilson jumped on the short crossing route (from the left side of the formation), leaving the wide-out (on the right side of the formation) free on the skinny post for a TD.

When we ran almost the same play, their safety (Weddle) stayed back to cut off AJ;
Schaub went to Jacoby underneath for a 17yd gain.

Well, let a college Junior safety shows them how it's done!

McDaniel backpedaled then stepped to his left to cut off the deep route (he took a quick glance at the other receiver then pretended to concentrate on the deep route).
All of a sudden, he stepped on the gas and bursted in front of the crossing route underneath, intercepted the ball and ran it back for a TD.

Wouldn't you like to have that guy on our team last year?
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Old 02-21-2011   #186
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Back to the second "iffy" moment in the 2010 Miami game for McDaniel.
The situation was different, being 3rd and 5 for Miami from their own 35 (ie. a short route would give the Canes a first down and move the chain.)

It was a similar pattern, except both receivers were on the same side and ran two vertical routes, both threatening the safety.
The wide out ran an in-and-up route.
The slot receiver (Hankerson) ran a seam route (a straight go route that would split the nickel back and the safety.)

McDaniel lined up 10 yds off the LOS, backpedaled about three yards and sat waiting for the ball to break.
(Actually, there was a third receiver on the same side running a check route out to the flat, covered by the dime back.)

Bob Griese and another analyst concurred that the Tigers decided to play zero coverage (no deep safety help), meaning the CBs were to run with the receivers.
In that case, I imagine the safety's job was to sit at certain "break point" where the receivers are likely to make a change in direction.

With 3 receivers in his area, McDaniel was settling himself in a position where he may be of help to all three CBs on certain routes.
Most likely, his job was to defend the underneath routes that either deep threats can break into (any in or out route, stop route, comebacker, etc.) in order for the CBs to run with the receivers on all deep routes.

The one thing McDaniel probably did wrong was to take one step forward (in anticipation of a break by the receiver?).
The QB Harris (in all likelyhood had reviewed his own tape from last year game) was probably instructed to hold the ball and wait for the safety movement.
That one step up by McD was all the QB needed to see to take a shot downfield.
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Old 02-21-2011   #187
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

The red tapes that I've been showing of McDaniel were very little as compared to what I've seen from Quinton Carter, Rahim Moore, Duenta Williams.

On the other hand, the postives were many.
In fact, IMHO, McDaniel played more like a true safety, a ball hawk, an all-around football player than the others.

I ran accross these funny comments by Bruins fans when Moore was picked as first-team All American by TSN and third by the AP.

http://www.insidesocal.com/ucla/2010...rting-new.html

Sadly, they were basically true.
I think Moore should have gone back to school for another year.

The plays from Carter and Williams also had a lot of holes.
None of them I would trust to be the centerfielder on a defense, at least not in their first year in the NFL.
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Old 02-21-2011   #188
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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The red tapes that I've been showing of McDaniel were very little as compared to what I've seen from Quinton Carter, Rahim Moore, Duenta Williams.

On the other hand, the postives were many.
In fact, IMHO, McDaniel played more like a true safety, a ball hawk, an all-around football player than the others.

I ran accross these funny comments by Bruins fans when Moore was picked as first-team All American by TSN and third by the AP.

http://www.insidesocal.com/ucla/2010...rting-new.html

Sadly, they were basically true.
I think Moore should have gone back to school for another year.

The plays from Carter and Williams also had a lot of holes.
None of them I would trust to be the centerfielder on a defense, at least not in their first year in the NFL.
You've sold me on McDaniel. Too bad the Boy Scout troup over at Reliant wont take him. The issues with Carter and Moore are correctable. The way the UCLA fans talk about Moore, he may be avilable in Rd 3-4 and would be a bargain at that point. IMHO
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Old 02-21-2011   #189
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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McDaniel played a lot of deep safety, including in cover one;
and he looked great to me.
Perhaps we are concerned about his speed at the next level.
If so, what do you think his 40 time should be to be rated as a frist rounder?
I think he needs to be in the low 4.5's atleast to make it into the first round. If he runs sub 4.5 he will go in the 1st round.
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Old 02-21-2011   #190
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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I think he needs to be in the low 4.5's atleast to make it into the first round. If he runs sub 4.5 he will go in the 1st round.
I really don't know where to place him, to be honest.

But let's look at some numbers:


2007:
#20 Aaron Ross (CB) 4.5

2008:
#20 Aqib Talib (CB) 4:47
#31 Kenny Phillips (S) 4:54


2009:

SI: "Jenkins, an Ohio State product, ran anywhere from a 4.55 to 4.59 on most watches in his first attempt at Lucas Oil Field in Indianapolis. He improved on his second 40, running a 4.52 or 4.53.

Coming into the combine, scouts were concerned about Jenkins' speed and felt he needed to run in the mid-4.4s to cement his status as the top cornerback. Some teams will now start to look at Jenkins as more of a safety since they feel he lacks top-end cornerback speed."

Jenkins was still the first CB taken at #14

....

2010:

#5 Eric Berry (FS) 4:47

#7 Joe Haden (CB) 4:57

#20 Jackson and #27 McCourty both clocked at 4:48

...
I don't think speed will be all that big a factor.
His coach said he ran 4.5 (but played like he ran a sub 4.4, he added.)

I'm thinking somewhere between 4.5-4.55
For a FS, I would think 4:55 is a very good time.
For a SS, 4:62 is still a very good time.

Last edited by 76Texan; 02-22-2011 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 02-21-2011   #191
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I don't follow teams need.
Can somebody recap which team need a FS, SS, CB and what draft slot they have?
Thanks!
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Old 02-22-2011   #192
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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You've sold me on McDaniel. Too bad the Boy Scout troup over at Reliant wont take him. The issues with Carter and Moore are correctable. The way the UCLA fans talk about Moore, he may be avilable in Rd 3-4 and would be a bargain at that point. IMHO
Actually, last year the Texans took some of the guys on my wish list, albeit at a higher slot than I had a couple of them at.

I had Jackson & McCourty neck to neck (late first, early second).
OK, so if I was a bit harsh, late first would have been better than 20.

I was fine with Tate in the 2nd at our slot.

I had Mitchell in the fourth (considering that he had not been playing defense all that long).

I wanted Morgan Burnett in the third, but the Packers took them at #71
(He started right away, but was injured in the 4th game.)

Wish they could have traded down a bit in the first or trade up in the third (and still draft Mitchell.)

Another guy I would have been fine with was Nate Allen at safety (if his injury checked out - and it did), but he was drafted at #37 by the Eagles.
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Old 02-22-2011   #193
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Every year since the inception of the Texans i am always most familiar with the safeties of the draft class...because we always need one but never select one.

You would think in a division with Peyton Manning they might pay some attention to the position...
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Old 02-26-2011   #194
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Every year since the inception of the Texans i am always most familiar with the safeties of the draft class...because we always need one but never select one.

You would think in a division with Peyton Manning they might pay some attention to the position...
You would think!

But it's hard to blame them for trying.
They did spend a lot of money and draft picks on the defensive side.
And when Richard Smith was here, the Texans played mostly a tampa 2 scheme, so a safety like Wilson (many injuries ago) was at least adequate.
Frank Bush, on the other hand, was trying to do too much.
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Old 02-26-2011   #195
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
You've sold me on McDaniel. Too bad the Boy Scout troup over at Reliant wont take him. The issues with Carter and Moore are correctable. The way the UCLA fans talk about Moore, he may be avilable in Rd 3-4 and would be a bargain at that point. IMHO
Ughh!
I watched some more of his games and the same stuffs appeared time and again.

The Oregon game was unbearable. He looked like a freshman out there.
I was thinking... ouch... undraftable.

I'm going try to watch the games from 09 to see how he got all those INTs.
(I actually did watch a few already, but let me hold off on the results.)
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Old 02-26-2011   #196
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

I'm still perplexed with the accolades that Prince A. have gotten, so I spent more time watching him.

2010:
Kansas, Iowa St, Mizzou, Wash, Okl, Okl St, UT, KS, Ks St, A&M, Colo, W. Kent, Idaho (the only game I didn't have is S. Dakota St.)

I also went back to all the 09 games in which he built up the "productions" (INTs, PBups):
Okl, UT, Colo, KS, Mizzou, Baylor

And I'm sorry to say that I don't see him as a first rounder.
To be honest, I don't know if I would want him in the second round either.

Besides the INT in the Fla Atlantic game (which I don't have), the other four INTs were gimme-type.

Maybe except for one; on that play, the commentator had this to say:
- QB staring down his receiver the whole time.
- Ball was out (thrown) late
- Receiver did not come back toward the ball.

On 2 of the other 3 INTs, he was actually beaten by 2-3 steps but the QB threw the ball right to him instead to the receivers.

The third one was late in a game in which the opponent was behind and it was like 4th and 20, and Prince played like a safety back deep and the QB threw the ball to him as if he was the receiver.

Sorry, kiwi and other Cornhuskers fans!
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Old 02-26-2011   #197
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

Prince was a cover 2 corner who stretched the college chuck rule to the max.

Having the safeties backing him up allowed him to play aggressively in the underneath zone (and the chuck rule also helps a lot.)

But leave him on an island and he would be burned time and time again.
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Old 02-26-2011   #198
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

On the other hand, the more tapes that I watched from Jimmy Smith and Andrew Rich, the more I like them.
I also went back to the 09 games like W. Virg, Okla, Mizzou , KS for Smith
and TCU, Fla St, Utah for Rich.
These were games against good passing teams/skill players at the time.
I also watched some games where their teams got manhandled (but they held up - Smith and Rich.)

I defnitely think Smith deserves first round status.
He've got the best tapes of all the CBs in this draft class - and the measurables.

Rich, I really don't know where to put him because he's so so under the radar that putting him ahead of Rahim Moore and Quinton Carter seems so preposterous.

But he really is a player that I want to see in a Texan uni.
The guy plays hard and smart and is always around the ball.
He hardly ever misses a tackle (and it's not like the play comes directly to him, he had to go after it, many times from all the way back in the secondary.)

Tyler Sash would be another good choice for me in the mid-rounds.
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Old 02-27-2011   #199
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

76Texan, what's your opinion of Brandon Harris-CB from Miami?
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Old 02-27-2011   #200
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Default Re: Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

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But leave him on an island and he would be burned time and time again.
Most of the college routes are underneath, so it wouldn't surprise me that Amukamara was coached to be hyper-aggressive on those routes. That doesn't mean he can't be coached to turn and run with WRs. I think he has the speed and ability.

Amukamara reminds me of a bigger pre-injury Dunta Robinson. Very physical corner who can challege NFL WRs at the LOS. I think the Texans have lacked that. I do acknowledge that Amukamara has been burned deep. But you have to look at the circumstances, where he hasn't been afforded safety help and asked to challenge the slants and outs. I don't think Amukamara has to be pigeon holed as a cover 2 CB.
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