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Old 12-08-2010   #1
80tothezone
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Default Defense coaching or talent?

OK so First let me say that I have been one of the biggest critics of the coaching staff (especially frank bush) and I'm really not interested in hearing that the problem has anything to do with the O. Our problem is D end of story no one with an IQ that registers anywhere above a goose egg could think otherwise...

I have been going over the game film and I am starting to question whether the problem is really frank bush.... I mean every zone has holes in it and good QB's can find them the idea is to put pressure on him and make him throw before a receiver gets into position.

That being said upon reviewing the game film it seems that our biggest problem in the pass game is people are slow to react (which could be a coaching or tallent issue)... our LB's our safeties and our corners not to mention the complete lack of up the middle pressure and Mario playing hurt.

So the question I guess that I have is can you really put it all on Bush? Would replacing him actually fix the problem??? Or would that be changing something just for changes sake and even after we do that we still are in the same place next year?
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Old 12-08-2010   #2
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

If you think it's all on Frank Bush, you're definitely mistaken. Sometimes, players just aren't good enough. With that said, he hasn't done a great job either.

The one question I want answered: who made the decision to go with the young secondary? Was it financial or was it because "these are the best guys we got?"

Whoever made that decision, whether it be Kubes, Rick Smith, Frank Bush, David Gibbs needs to go.
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Old 12-08-2010   #3
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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Originally Posted by 80tothezone View Post
OK so First let me say that I have been one of the biggest critics of the coaching staff
With only 53 posts, there is no way you have been one of the biggest critics.

Quote:
Our problem is D end of story no one with an IQ that registers anywhere above a goose egg could think otherwise...
That is a statement with a lot of asshattery in it.

Quote:
I have been going over the game film and I am starting to question whether the problem is really frank bush.... I mean every zone has holes in it and good QB's can find them the idea is to put pressure on him and make him throw before a receiver gets into position.

That being said upon reviewing the game film it seems that our biggest problem in the pass game is people are slow to react (which could be a coaching or tallent issue)... our LB's our safeties and our corners not to mention the complete lack of up the middle pressure and Mario playing hurt.

So the question I guess that I have is can you really put it all on Bush? Would replacing him actually fix the problem??? Or would that be changing something just for changes sake and even after we do that we still are in the same place next year?
The rest of your posts brings up good questions. It has been mentioned before that the Texans do not have the team speed that they need. I question that though. I think the coaching staff has a real hard time getting the concept across to the players, or the players do not trust each other enough on defense. Everyone seems to be watching to make sure the other guy does not need help, so they are late to their own assignments.

It does not help them any when the offense does not do it's job early in games.
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Old 12-08-2010   #4
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?



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Old 12-08-2010   #5
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

Isn't it spelled "talent?"
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Old 12-08-2010   #6
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
It does not help them any when the offense does not do it's job early in games.
My theory is that Kubiak's gameplan going in to games doesn't always work, this causes a few bad drives to start most of our games. Yes you can blame our offense, but that means Kubiak so some changes do need to be made with our staff.

With that said, we obviously have the talent because once everyone's tempo reaches their peak (unfortunately well after the first half some games) our offense finds the endzone and the defense makes stops.

I want coaches who know how to prepare our players for the game right out of the gate.
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Old 12-09-2010   #7
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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Isn't it spelled "talent?"
We need more height.
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Old 12-09-2010   #8
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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Originally Posted by Andre_Johnson View Post
Isn't it spelled "talent?"
NO! it's spellled howw I wwannt to spelll itt
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Old 12-09-2010   #9
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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Originally Posted by BullsOnParade View Post
If you think it's all on Frank Bush, you're definitely mistaken. Sometimes, players just aren't good enough. With that said, he hasn't done a great job either.

The one question I want answered: who made the decision to go with the young secondary? Was it financial or was it because "these are the best guys we got?"

Whoever made that decision, whether it be Kubes, Rick Smith, Frank Bush, David Gibbs needs to go.
ok (and keep in mind I don't like the guy) but what coaching decisions can one point to where he has made the bad call... I mean even the 3rd and 19 that lost us last weeks game It looked like he had a good D called, the players just didn't execute (bently I believe) was slow to get to the ball etc...

If coaching is the issue then I would think you would be able to find bad play calling that results in points etc, instead what I see more than not is bad execution.Now that to me falls on players and position coaches not on the DC... I guess what I may be realizing is that people (including me) are quick to see a D problem and blame the DC or a team problem and blame the HC cause it is easy and there is an easy case to be made for it i.e. the defense sucks so no matter what the problem will be solved by hiring a new DC...

I haven't looked up how many DC's and OC's we have had here but I know it is more than one and we still have the same problems which tends to make me think that the problem might be a little more complicated than that...just a little FFT

also i agree whoever it was that said we should go young should be fired obvious mistake..
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Old 12-09-2010   #10
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre_Johnson View Post
My theory is that Kubiak's gameplan going in to games doesn't always work, this causes a few bad drives to start most of our games. Yes you can blame our offense, but that means Kubiak so some changes do need to be made with our staff.

With that said, we obviously have the talent because once everyone's tempo reaches their peak (unfortunately well after the first half some games) our offense finds the endzone and the defense makes stops.

I want coaches who know how to prepare our players for the game right out of the gate.
I just don't see blaming an offense that puts up 24 ppg and splits TOP right down the middle with the D if the case were that we were putting up 24ppg and only holding the ball 12-15 mins then I could see the case... On average though we hold the ball 29:+ a game so I just can't see blaming them.

People see a few mistakes by schaub AFTER he has led a 7 min drive down the field to tie/go ahead and then when he can't do it again with less than 1:00 to go and no TO's they somehow come away with "schaub sucks we need a better O" I just don't get it ... I will say it again as I have said it before ... how many game winning/tieing drives can you ask a guy to make in single game...
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Old 12-09-2010   #11
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 80tothezone View Post
OK so First let me say that I have been one of the biggest critics of the coaching staff (especially frank bush) and I'm really not interested in hearing that the problem has anything to do with the O. Our problem is D end of story no one with an IQ that registers anywhere above a goose egg could think otherwise...

I have been going over the game film and I am starting to question whether the problem is really frank bush.... I mean every zone has holes in it and good QB's can find them the idea is to put pressure on him and make him throw before a receiver gets into position.

That being said upon reviewing the game film it seems that our biggest problem in the pass game is people are slow to react (which could be a coaching or tallent issue)... our LB's our safeties and our corners not to mention the complete lack of up the middle pressure and Mario playing hurt.

So the question I guess that I have is can you really put it all on Bush? Would replacing him actually fix the problem??? Or would that be changing something just for changes sake and even after we do that we still are in the same place next year?
That is the big question. Chicken or egg? We dont get to hear the coaching, planning, or game film discussion, so how should we know? This is on Gary to figure out and correct. Either he needs a new secondary, or a coach who can coach them up to their potential, and put in position to make plays.

Not much else to say. We just dont have the information required to make an informed decision, and the Houston Texans, along with most other franchises like it that way. Keep the fans in the dark.
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Old 12-09-2010   #12
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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Re: Defense coaching or tallent?
Well, I googled "tallent" and found several Tallent's Sausage and Grocery stores around Texas. So I guess the question is whether or not this chain of grocery stores has more effect on the Texans that does the defensive coaching.

Based on that, I'm gonna go with coaching as the problem.
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Old 12-09-2010   #13
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Well, I googled "tallent" and found several Tallent's Sausage and Grocery stores around Texas. So I guess the question is whether or not this chain of grocery stores has more effect on the Texans that does the defensive coaching.

Based on that, I'm gonna go with coaching as the problem.
funny but someone already said that one ....
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Old 12-09-2010   #14
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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funny but someone already said that one ....
funny but someone already debated coaching vs. talent too...
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Old 12-09-2010   #15
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

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funny but someone already debated coaching vs. talent too...
yeh but not with the insightful analysis that I bring to the table or maybe they did I don't know didn't see the thread...obviously ....
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Old 12-09-2010   #16
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Default Re: Defense coaching or talent?

Both. The NFL channel did alot of analysis of our team just before the Thursday night game and it wasn't very pretty. With the backfield, they talked about technique alot, which lends itself to coaching. With the Dline, it was about getting pushed around.
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Old 12-09-2010   #17
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Default Re: Defense coaching or tallent?

Without going on another never-ending rant like I did yesterday with my brother-in-law, I'll keep it short.

Let's take the Ravens and Steelers defense for example. Do they have badass CB's? Nope, the Ravens have Chris Carr and Josh Wilson and the Steelers have Bryant McFadden and Ike Taylor starting for them. While they aren't bums, they aren't exactly proven pro bowlers.

So, what is it that makes these two defenses very good? Well, I think I can come up with a couple of answers that say our problems are with talent AND coaching. Both the Steelers and Ravens are dominant with their front sevens. Their DC's put them in positions for success, whether it's stunting or blitzing the hell out of offenses, they're creating havoc in the backfield.

They both also have one or two dominant NT/DT's in Hampton, Ngata, Gregg, etc. Dominant LB's in Suggs, Harrison, Rayray, Woodley, etc. And they also each have a dominant safety with Polamalu and Reed.

So my answer is both. It's the DC's job to put the players in the best position to succeed. Is Bush doing this? IMO, absolutely not. Having one or two dominant players on each level helps a lot and I think we're missing the DT and Safety position. BUT, there's no doubt in my mind that this defense couldn't be much better than what we see every week if the coach found ways to make up for their deficiencies.

Damn, ended up a rant anyways
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Old 12-11-2010   #18
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Default Re: Defense coaching or talent?

More than that.

It is beyond coaching and talent.

It is a systemic problem in putting together a defense. The only time the Texans had a defense that was even semi-good, it was put together from older, experienced players procured through the expansion draft.

They need a proven GM. They need a proven DC who has built a defense, and has a specific philosophy to draft/obtain free agents for. They may even have to evaluate how they practice--how can you get big fat guys on defense if you are going to kill them in the summer heat.

Whatever Kubiak's failings were, he took an offense that was crap, and built it into something that more often than not looks like NFL football. If he could do that on the offensive side of the ball, there has to be an experienced DC that could do that for the other side.
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Old 12-11-2010   #19
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Default Re: Defense coaching or talent?

One of Kubiaks faults is that he lacks flexibility. When he first came here, before he even hired a DC, he started making personnel decisions to staff
a 4-3 since the Texans were running a defense, the 3-4, that he'd not seen in Denver. And of course he's not an defensive coach, but for some reason he just apparently was uncomfortable with a non 4-3 D ?
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Old 12-11-2010   #20
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Default Re: Defense coaching or talent?

Kubiak hired the DC. When he didn't work out, Kubiak fired him and hired another DC. Kubiak hired the defensive coaches. When some of them didn't work out/left, Kubiak hired new ones of those. Kubiak drafted all the defensive players. When the ones he brought in initially didn't work out, Kubiak fired them and brought in new ones. When the ones he inherited didn't work out, Kubiak fired them and brought in new ones.

If you look closely, there's a common denominator in all that.
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