Big Board Thread

[Texan4Ever]

Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan

Just curious as to where you all have Jimmy Smith CB from Colorado.

I heard today that he is moving to the top of some peoples boards as the best CB in the draft. I really like what I have read about him but haven't seen much tape.

I think 76 posted something about him based on tapes and he doesn't seem to immpressed with Smith. He could be right as a few people think he is overrated due to his physical play and his height which is shooting him up the boards.

[Ole Miss Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

13. Nate Solder, OT, Colorado - 6'9 - 315
Anyone who's seen him play knows he stands out on the field not only 6'9" has huge wingspan & surprising footwork to keep would be pass rushers off QB.
http://detroit.sbnation.com/detroit-...-detroit-lions

This probably isn't the most popular idea... but tell me about Solder a little bit. From what I'm reading, he could be an elite LT that reminds some of Joe Thomas. Supposedly has good feet and can block well for screens and get to the 2nd level.

Thoughts of the potential on this guy at LT for us? Move Brown inside to Guard or RT. Winston stays at RT or moves into G?

I know we all want defense but man, Is Duane Brown the answer at LT for us and do you pass on a potential franchise LT?

[rmartin65]

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan

This probably isn't the most popular idea... but tell me about Solder a little bit. From what I'm reading, he could be an elite LT that reminds some of Joe Thomas. Supposedly has good feet and can block well for screens and get to the 2nd level.

Thoughts of the potential on this guy at LT for us? Move Brown inside to Guard or RT. Winston stays at RT or moves into G?

I know we all want defense but man, Is Duane Brown the answer at LT for us and do you pass on a potential franchise LT?

I love him as the future LT for the Texans. I dont know if he is 6'9", but 6'7" at the least. He has an incredible frame, could probably get to 330 lbs without losing agility. Great footwork, decent strength, and can play with a nasty attitude (I would like to see it more often though). Because he needs to bulk up and could stand to work on technique, I think it will take a year to be a starter. He is a fringe first that I would love in the case of a trade back, or if he lasts until the Texans' 2nd rounder.

Move Brown to LG, and the line looks pretty decent.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by rmartin65

I love him as the future LT for the Texans. I dont know if he is 6'9", but 6'7" at the least. He has an incredible frame, could probably get to 330 lbs without losing agility. Great footwork, decent strength, and can play with a nasty attitude (I would like to see it more often though). Because he needs to bulk up and could stand to work on technique, I think it will take a year to be a starter. He is a fringe first that I would love in the case of a trade back, or if he lasts until the Texans' 2nd rounder.

Move Brown to LG, and the line looks pretty decent.

Solder measured in at 6'8-1/4 at the Sr. Bowl.
I think he will be the first or 2nd LT taken, and that's most likely in the first round.
I would be very tempted to trade back and get him if you think he's still there in the eraly twenty.
I would move Brown to RT (he started out playing there for VT) and slide Winston to the inside.
I do believe that arm length is an issue with Winston on the outside.

[Ole Miss Texan]

Originally Posted by rmartin65

I love him as the future LT for the Texans. I dont know if he is 6'9", but 6'7" at the least. He has an incredible frame, could probably get to 330 lbs without losing agility. Great footwork, decent strength, and can play with a nasty attitude (I would like to see it more often though). Because he needs to bulk up and could stand to work on technique, I think it will take a year to be a starter. He is a fringe first that I would love in the case of a trade back, or if he lasts until the Texans' 2nd rounder.

Move Brown to LG, and the line looks pretty decent.

Thanks for the feedback. I havn't really watched him.

One thing that concerned me this past season, it just seemed like Winston got beat by speed more than I ever remembered before. Brown doesn't scream franchise LT to me, but what I do see is a very solid, versatile o-lineman. In that sense, I really don't think he was a reach when we got him. I think Brown is a better pass blocker than Winston. Solder-Brown could make awesome book ends. Push Winston inside to RG, I think he would hold his own in pass blocking and the right side would be stronger in run blocking (possibly). Winston is tall himself and I don't normally like such tall interior o-linemen. Wade Smith seemed to be good over on the left, I don't ever remember screaming his name. Myers definitely improved this season. Caldwell is a great backup, I still really want him to work out at Center though. But I'm actually a fan of Myers.

Just thinking outloud. Trade down for him would be enticing. Still prefer a defensive stud though.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texan4Ever

I think 76 posted something about him based on tapes and he doesn't seem to immpressed with Smith. He could be right as a few people think he is overrated due to his physical play and his height which is shooting him up the boards.

Oh no, that was Prince Amukamara that I think was overrated.
I like Smith alright. I just wanted to study him a little more (I've only been concentrating on him in two games: Mizzou & Georgia).
I'm not at all surprised somebody think he's the best corner prospect in this draft.
If you watch him play against AJ Green, you would tend to agree.
Green tallied 7 catches for 119 yds and 2 TDs in that game, none on Smith's watch.
Smith prevented two highly possible TD throws to Green and dissuade the QB to throw that way two or three other times.
(Not that I think it's a good idea to have single coverage on Green, no matter how fun it was to watch that match-up.)

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan

Thanks for the feedback. I havn't really watched him.

One thing that concerned me this past season, it just seemed like Winston got beat by speed more than I ever remembered before. Brown doesn't scream franchise LT to me, but what I do see is a very solid, versatile o-lineman. In that sense, I really don't think he was a reach when we got him. I think Brown is a better pass blocker than Winston. Solder-Brown could make awesome book ends. Push Winston inside to RG, I think he would hold his own in pass blocking and the right side would be stronger in run blocking (possibly). Winston is tall himself and I don't normally like such tall interior o-linemen. Wade Smith seemed to be good over on the left, I don't ever remember screaming his name. Myers definitely improved this season. Caldwell is a great backup, I still really want him to work out at Center though. But I'm actually a fan of Myers.

Just thinking outloud. Trade down for him would be enticing. Still prefer a defensive stud though.

I doubt Solder is a good fit for Texans. Derek Sherrod would fit seamless in Texans ZBS. We did have him rated much higher originally but bumped him down later in first round. He is much more mobile & can reach the second level only 6053 305 his ability to move in space will be showcased @ the combine. played against some tough competition in SEC @ Mississippi State.

[Texan4Ever]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Oh no, that was Prince Amukamara that I think was overrated.
I like Smith alright. I just wanted to study him a little more (I've only been concentrating on him in two games: Mizzou & Georgia).
I'm not at all surprised somebody think he's the best corner prospect in this draft.
If you watch him play against AJ Green, you would tend to agree.
Green tallied 7 catches for 119 yds and 2 TDs in that game, none on Smith's watch.
Smith prevented two highly possible TD throws to Green and dissuade the QB to throw that way two or three other times.
(Not that I think it's a good idea to have single coverage on Green, no matter how fun it was to watch that match-up.)

Oh ok, Smith is drawing my attention because of his height and he sorrta resembles Aso's play but he seems to be a bit more physical.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

I doubt Solder is a good fit for Texans. Derek Sherrod would fit seamless in Texans ZBS. We did have him rated much higher originally but bumped him down later in first round. He is much more mobile & can reach the second level only 6053 305 his ability to move in space will be showcased @ the combine. played against some tough competition in SEC @ Mississippi State.

Well, BL, I just finished watching the third Colorado game (this one is against OU), and I would say that Solder is a perfect fit for the Texans.
The Buffaloes played a mix of ZBS and power (mostly ZBS), and I saw Solder made a lot of blocks that D.Brown did.
- He went to the second level to take on the LBs several times.
- One remarkable block is when he reached to the right (play side) to cut block the DT (not the DE); he then get up quickly to block the weak side safety that came down to support the run.
- He pulled all the way to the right side once.
- One time they placed the TE on his side; Solder would pull to the outside and went on to block the LB in for the outside run.
- Another excellent play was when he pass blocked on the DE, then quickly switched to the outside to take on the rushing OLB.

I'm thinking, at the moment, that he's the #1 tackle in this draft.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texan4Ever

Oh ok, Smith is drawing my attention because of his height and he sorrta resembles Aso's play but he seems to be a bit more physical.

As I mentioned, I just watched the Colorado/OU game.
Once again, Smith showed that he's the complete package.

He has size, speed, phisicality, loose hips, good burst, good techniques.
He knows how to locate the ball so he can put a hand on the receiver without being called PI.
He turns and runs smoothly, mirroring the deep routes well.
He plays the cloud technique well in run support.
He will pursues the run to the other side of the field.
He can come in quickly on a corner blitz.

If his plays mirror the 3 games that I have watched so far, I think I would have to put him as the #1 rated CB in this draft.

Man, Olemiss, I want badly to have Smith and Solder both for the Texans.

[kiwitexansfan]

Give me Smith at #11, or if he does shoot up hopefully Prince might fall down to us. He would be lights out with good safety protection in the cover 2.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Well, BL, I just finished watching the third Colorado game (this one is against OU), and I would say that Solder is a perfect fit for the Texans.
The Buffaloes played a mix of ZBS and power (mostly ZBS), and I saw Solder made a lot of blocks that D.Brown did.
- He went to the second level to take on the LBs several times.
- One remarkable block is when he reached to the right (play side) to cut block the DT (not the DE); he then get up quickly to block the weak side safety that came down to support the run.
- He pulled all the way to the right side once.
- One time they placed the TE on his side; Solder would pull to the outside and went on to block the LB in for the outside run.
- Another excellent play was when he pass blocked on the DE, then quickly switched to the outside to take on the rushing OLB.

I'm thinking, at the moment, that he's the #1 tackle in this draft.

with all due respect I didn't like what I saw @ the Senior Bowl. Against better competition he lost his base & was easily disengaged with quicker/stronger DE unobstructed to the QB. In short he would get Schaub killed. He needs to increase his core strength & fill into his frame which will take a year or two, then maybe you really got something but in regards to the Texans now he would be a mistake, IMO.

[kiwitexansfan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

with all due respect I didn't like what I saw @ the Senior Bowl. Against better competition he lost his base & was easily disengaged with quicker/stronger DE unobstructed to the QB. In short he would get Schaub killed. He needs to increase his core strength & fill into his frame which will take a year or two, then maybe you really got something but in regards to the Texans now he would be a mistake, IMO.

I heard the same thing.

I believe it may have been Kerrigan but someone made Solder their mummy dog.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

with all due respect I didn't like what I saw @ the Senior Bowl. Against better competition he lost his base & was easily disengaged with quicker/stronger DE unobstructed to the QB. In short he would get Schaub killed. He needs to increase his core strength & fill into his frame which will take a year or two, then maybe you really got something but in regards to the Texans now he would be a mistake, IMO.

You might have mistaken him with Castonzo. They look similar, especially with that gold helmet.

I counted Solder with one bad play (that he was beaten to the inside by Acho 'cause he played too high) and two subpar plays (one to the inside but it took a little while and the QB scramble up the pocket, and one he was pushed close to the QB who had made a completion - this one probably shouldn't count as a subpar play)
.
Castonzo was involved in at least 4 bad plays.
Got pushed into the QB, forcing poor throws and on one he pulled too far to the right and completely missed the defender who came in for a tackle in the backfield.
There was also a subpar play where he got beat to the inside, but the QB rolled to the other side.

Sherrod was in for 5 bad plays and a couple of subpar plays.
Of the 5 bad plays, 3 were in the passing game (getting pushed in to the QB forcing hurried/poor throws) and two in the running game (one where he let the DT got around him near the goal line to stop the RB for no gain, and one where he completely missed the outside defender, letting him pursue the back side and take away the cut back lane.)

I dindn't wacth Carpenter closely (but there was at least one bad play) since I've already known he was quite inconsistent at Bama the last two years (I do watch a lot of Bama games.)

I didn't watch Carimi either, 'cause he played RT.

As far as competition is concerned.
Of the games I watched, OU and Georgia have players (DEs and LBs) that will be drafted this year and some will be drafted next year.
Jeremy Beal, Justin Houston, Travis Lewis, Akeem Dent to name a few.
Some may be UDFAs because they are close to NFL talent level.

If I have time, I may watch him in action against Jordan (Cali), Clayborn and Ballard (Iowa), Piere Allen (Nebraska), Aldon Smith (Mizzou).
But I suspect he got good grades due to the fact that he can play against those guys anyway.

[76Texan]

OK, so I took a look at a couple more games:
California in week 2 ad Nebraska in the last week of the regular season.

In the California game (just as in the game against against Colorado St in week 1) he looked suspected at times.
It was due to him playing high.

However, Jordan couldn't do anything against him.
But Solder had quite a bit of difficulties against Mychal Kendricks, the OLB (giving up 1-1/2 sack and one pressure that was not recorded in the official ncaa stat site - I have found that what I observe on the field has not been the same as whatever the official site recorded at times.)

I guess we need to put a watch on this guy (Kendricks) for next year (he totalled 8-1/2 sacks for the year.)

Against Nebraska, he pretty much controlled the left side.
He did very well against Georgia and OU as I've already mentioned.
I don't see him having problem on the second level at all.

However, I will admit that due to his natural height, he might have problem with the quickness and speed in the NFL. They can set him up with an outside move and come back with an inside move that may give him problem.
(But perhaps it can be helped with whatever they mean by the tackle needing to overset or underset depending on guard play on different blocking scheme?!?)

[beerlover]

I appreciate all the time you spend reviewing film. I'm just saying one of the scouting services I subscribe to rates Solder #50th overall & 3rd overall OT prospect. Just from reading your reports the common theme seems to be he struggles with speed inside, this is going to be a problem in the NFL don't you agree? Look I can see investing a first round pick on the position but not to develop, think this is what the Texans saw in Bulter, needed to increase his core strength & refine his tools. Great frame, great attitude & work ethic Nate will surely succeed in the league if he can avoid injury & back pains like other tall LT's see Marcus McNeill, whom the Texans passed on, drafted by San Diego, 2nd rd. 50th overall.

[kiwitexansfan]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Against Nebraska, he pretty much controlled the left side.

FWIW Nebraska's scheme doesn't emphasise outside pass rush from the DE's so you would expect Solder to look like he did good against them.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

I appreciate all the time you spend reviewing film. I'm just saying one of the scouting services I subscribe to rates Solder #50th overall & 3rd overall OT prospect. Just from reading your reports the common theme seems to be he struggles with speed inside, this is going to be a problem in the NFL don't you agree? Look I can see investing a first round pick on the position but not to develop, think this is what the Texans saw in Bulter, needed to increase his core strength & refine his tools. Great frame, great attitude & work ethic Nate will surely succeed in the league if he can avoid injury & back pains like other tall LT's see Marcus McNeill, whom the Texans passed on, drafted by San Diego, 2nd rd. 50th overall.

What about Sebastian Vollmer who measured in at 6'8 and 314 lbs on his pro day.
He turns out to be a very good RT for the Pats.
I've mentioned before that he also had a heck of a game at LT against Freeney (he played LT when Matt Light was out against Denver in week 5 - 09, and started 5 more games at LT). After that, he claimed the starting spot at RT ever since.
He's a kid who played for the Cougars that I thought the Texans should have seriously looked at. (What a value at #58).

I'm curious as to who the scouting service rate at #1 & 2 (must be Carimi and Castonzo)??? But these two guys are about as tall.
Or is it Sherrod and Tyrod Smith??? (I don't dislike these two guys; I just don't like them as much from a couple of games I've watched - maybe more than 2.)

As far as starting, I disagree a little bit, as I din't think the Texans should have started Duane Brown right away.
Now, you have known that I rated Brown in the early 2nd round, but then I had to agreed that he's also the #8 tackle on the board, and if all the others were gone, and the Chargers coming up, I can see why the Texans took him at his spot (I think it was either your or badboy who pointed this out to me.)

I like Solder better than Brown as a prospect.
Back then I did say that Brown sometimes had the same problem that Solder has now.
As a prospect, Brown has a slight edge over Solder in the running game (due to his overall quickness and agility.)
But I can see that Solder is much stronger and can dominate a defender.
And he's really long; once he got all the techniques down, his chance to latch onto the defenders should increase; and once he latches on, we know it's going to be quite difficult for the defender to disengage.
Also, with his low body fat count, it's quite possible for him to add on even more muscle. I see that as a plus over Brown.

Even so, I wouldn't mind at all for him to sit and watch a few games, then play every third series (with Winston sliding into the Guard spot.)
Winston is a vet and a pro; he should be able to handle that.
Or we could start the season with Winston at RG; Butler at RT and Solder alternating every third series.
It's a long shot anyway, since it's highly likely that the Texans won't try to fix something that ain't broken.

At any rate, I haven't really study them all yet so it's still fluid right now.
For example, I haven't watched the drills at the senior bowl practice - I only glossed over it.
I've seen plenty of Castonzo in his soph year, and some in both his junior and senior year. He kinda dissappoint me his senior year (maybe he got some minor health issues?)
I've seen plenty of Carimi his junior year (when I studied Graham) and a couple games this year.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan

FWIW Nebraska's scheme doesn't emphasise outside pass rush from the DE's so you would expect Solder to look like he did good against them.

OK, I agree.
The right side of the Cornhuskers was not the best on the front four;
the guys over there were young (Meredith - who was injured during the game and Williams; then Randle is just a Fr).

However, Solder did slip out on the LBs on occasions, and he also slid over on a blitz or two (I think there was at least one corner or safety blitz)

Again, your point is taken.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

What about Sebastian Vollmer who measured in at 6'8 and 314 lbs on his pro day.
He turns out to be a very good RT for the Pats.
I've mentioned before that he also had a heck of a game at LT against Freeney (he played LT when Matt Light was out against Denver in week 5 - 09, and started 5 more games at LT). After that, he claimed the starting spot at RT ever since.
He's a kid who played for the Cougars that I thought the Texans should have seriously looked at. (What a value at #58). Agree totally

As far as starting, I disagree a little bit, as I din't think the Texans should have started Duane Brown right away. Desperation move by Texans
Now, you have known that I rated Brown in the early 2nd round, but then I had to agreed that he's also the #8 tackle on the board, and if all the others were gone, and the Chargers coming up, I can see why the Texans took him at his spot (I think it was either your or badboy who pointed this out to me.) early to mid second, market need drove up value

I like Solder better than Brown as a prospect. Solder is a better fit for most schemes, while Brown is best suited for ZBS
Back then I did say that Brown sometimes had the same problem that Solder has now.
As a prospect, Brown has a slight edge over Solder in the running game (due to his overall quickness and agility.)
But I can see that Solder is much stronger and can dominate a defender. this is the point I disagree with, Solder doesn't dominate or pancake defender, he's not nasty, will need to finish off blocks otherwise will get beaten on 2nd/3rd effort
And he's really long; once he got all the techniques down, his chance to latch onto the defenders should increase; and once he latches on, we know it's going to be quite difficult for the defender to disengage.
Also, with his low body fat count, it's quite possible for him to add on even more muscle. I see that as a plus over Brown. I agree his upside is much higher

I'm 100% with you concerning Sebastian Vollmer & Duane Brown. So what is fair value? one is a steal the other a reach but in the overview of entire draft board they balance out & are an example how the strong fed off mistakes of the weak.

Clearly contained in this BIG BOARD thread, it is noted Nate Solder as highest rated OT in the draft class @ #13. Maybe we, as a group, feel the need to reopen the board & make some adjustments? Clearly Nate could be bumped up higher as some like Stephen Paea have fallen (surgery) just one example, plus reflecting ascending value of Von Miller who most feel is not only top 10 material but could be selected by Arizona #5.

Here is our Big Board with just a few updates (biggest movers Cam Jordon/Von Miller). see what you think & we'll tweak it a bit I think it's time, been almost two months exactly from when we started. Thank You

1. Da'Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson - 6'4 - 280

2. Nick Fairley, Auburn, (Jr.), 6-4, 298

3. Patrick Peterson, DB, LSU - 6'1 - 222

4. A.J. Green, WR, Georgia - 6'4 - 212

5. Von Miller, DE, Texas A&M - 6'3 - 243 previous Blaine Gabbert, Missouri, (Jr.), - 6'5 - 235

6. Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama - 6'3 - 306

7. Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina - 6'5 - 268

8. Prince Amukamara, DB, Nebraska - 6'1 - 205

9. Cameron Jordan - DE, California - 6'4 - 285 previous - J.J. Watt, DE/DT, Wisconsin - 6'6 - 290

10. Julio Jones, WR, Alabama - 6'4 - 220

11. Nate Solder, OT, Colorado - 6'9 - 315 previous - Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State - 6'1 - 311

12. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri, (Jr.), - 6'5 - 235- previous -Von Miller, DE, Texas A&M - 6'3 - 243

13. J.J. Watt, DE/DT, Wisconsin - 6'6 - 290 previous - Nate Solder, OT, Colorado - 6'9 - 315

14. Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa - 6'4 - 285

15. Akeem Ayers, LB, UCLA - 6'4 - 255

16. Jake Locker, QB, Washington - 6'3 - 230

17. Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama - 5'10 - 215

18. Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue - 6'4 - 263

19. Tyron Smith, OT USC - 6'6 - 290

20. Justin Houston, LB Georgia - 6'3 - 260

21. Cameron Newton, QB, Auburn - 6'6 - 250

22. Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas - 6'6 - 238

23. Anthony Costanzo – OT, Boston College - 6'7 - 308

24. Brandon Harris, CB, Miami - 5'11 - 195

25. Cameron Heyward, DE/DT, Ohio State - 6'5 - 288

26. Aldon Smith, DE/OLB Missouri - 6'5 - 260

27. Mike Pouncey – OG, Florida - 6'4 - 310

28. Drake Nevis – DT, LSU - 6'1 - 285

29. Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi State - 6'5 - 305

30. Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State - 6'1 - 311 previous - Cameron Jordan - DE, California - 6'4 - 285

31. Mikel LeShoure, Illinois, (Jr.), - 6'0 - 230

32. Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois - 6'3 - 295