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Old 04-04-2005   #1
beerlover
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Default last years trades w/supplemental pick

just revisiting last years draft, yes the 1st round was loaded but after that the talent level fell off which may explain why the Texans traded up for Jason Babin, also I doubt they where thinking of replacing their middle lb's Sharper & Foreman so quickly. the fact they projected Hollings so highly looks dubious at best, after this year we'll know for sure. here is an alternative game plan for last year without trading up for Babin & taking Hollings in the supplemental draft.

#33/X Houston (F/OAK) Pick exercised in supplemental draft
select Teddy Lehman, ILB. went to Detroit @ #37 2nd on team in total tackles, started all 16 games. would have made taking a OLB in 2005 a no brainer, someone like David Pollack (very similar to Babin).

40 Tennessee (F/HOU) if the Texans wanted to take a chance on a RB with some injury issues but was also very productive in College Julius Jones was available here, really broke out late season & shows the promise the Texans must have been thinking Hollings would deliever.

71 Tennessee (F/HOU) Starks, Randy DT Maryland (actual pick of Titans) would have given the Texans a strong solid young DT fits the 3-4 scheme is 6-3 & 307 lbs. recorded 4.5 sacks as a rookie, any Texan DT have more sacks?

103 Tennessee (F/Hou) Parker, Samie WR has excellent speed and route runner did not get much p/t with the Chiefs but shows great upside and ideal for a team @ the #2 WR spot.

138 Tennessee (F/HOU) Scott, Jake OG worked his way into the starting Colts lineup protecting manning and opening lanes for james. the Colts OL had the 2nd best ratio of sacks per pass plays giving up only 14 sacks for the season.

I'm torn on the direction the Texans have taken, its not real decisive one way or the other or is it? you be the judge
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Old 04-04-2005   #2
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I hate trading up because of the player you might have had.

But the truth is even if you don't trade someone could look at your draft later and pick out better players taken later in almost every round that you could have... but you didn't take them. Just think of all the teams that could have taken Montana before the 3rd round, or Brady before the 6th round... or picked Priest Holmes in the last round... no one did... he was a free agent.

Hindsight is 20/20. (as per El Tejano... thanks)

Last edited by hound; 04-04-2005 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 04-04-2005   #3
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Hindsight 20/20.
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Old 04-04-2005   #4
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I've got you all beat. Last time I had my eyes tested I was 20/15...oh wait a minute.

I think it's interesting to take a look back at the players we could've had, and I appreciate the effort beerlover put into it. As far as Randy Starks perfomance with the Titans I'm not so sure he'd have had near the numbers he had if we had picked him up instead of Babin. Fisher's defense is very aggressive, and the DLine is no exception. The Texans D-Line is used mostly for occupying the OLine in order to free up the LBs to cause havoc. Also don't forget that Starks was playing along side Haynesworth, and if you were an opposing OLine coach or Offensive Coordinator who would you scheme for on the Titans DLine. Haynesworth? Or a rookie starter in Starks? I would make certain that whichever OG was responsible for Haynesworth would have plenty of help from the C. I tend to agree with you that Hollings might not have been the best investment the Texans have ever made, but he's still got time to turn it around. The problem is I don't see him getting much PT if he can't run inside as well as he does outside. It seemed like everytime I watched him run he'd end up running into the back of his blockers, and end up with a short gain or a loss. He's got great speed, and he can be very elusive. However, I'm not sure he has the vision or the instincts to be a high caliber RB. Jones has looked good for the Cowboys thus far, and I'll admit that I wasn't very high on him coming out of Notre Dame. I really like the RB coming out of Notre Dame this year (Grant). Looks like my evaluations of Golden Domers isn't so great. The only problem is he has alot of durability concerns, but he could get picked up in the later rounds. As far as Lehman goes there is no doubt he'd have been a great pickup, but I like the crop of ILB in this years draft and I feel the Texans will get a quality guy on the inside this year. The same can be said for picking up a G or C in this year's draft. There are alot of very talented guys that can be had late in the first day, and perhaps even the middle of the second day. I think in the end, even after looking at all the prospects we could've had, I'm still very happy with grabbing Babin. I think he'll be a cornerstone player for this defense for years to come.
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Old 04-04-2005   #5
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Hindisight is 20/20, but instead of hollings.... we could have had Julius Jones?!?!

I will never understand that hollings pick.
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Old 04-04-2005   #6
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oh oh my! we could have had Julies Jones? Good RB DD would be out already! but really theres no way to go back in time, I think Babin is a great OLB I doubt any other pick would have done as well but that other guy + JJ! :woot Im going to go think about what we could be this upcoming year!
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Old 04-04-2005   #7
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If you ever want to change that ridiculous name all you have to do is PM me.
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Old 04-04-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComstockLode
Hindisight is 20/20, but instead of hollings.... we could have had Julius Jones?!?!

I will never understand that hollings pick.
Everyone forgets, we didn't pick Hollings with the #33 pick. We picked Hollings with the 2nd round pick of the prior year's Super Bowl loser before the season played out.

Two points:

1. Who expected the Raiders to go from #31 to #2 in earned draft picks in one year?
2. We were stuck looking at Stacey Mack and Jonathon Wells as our two running backs. Hollings had college success in his very short career and at the time he looked a lot like the only possible hope for success, even though we knew the injury might be a problem. We were so desperate we tried out a guy we had drafted for special-teams. Imagine our surprise when that experiment worked ...
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Old 04-04-2005   #9
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appreciate the kind words and your effort as well to address last years draft texasguy346

this post was not intended to slam or degrade last years Texans draft in any way shape or form. as I stated I'm not real decisive one way or the other which is the better approach even with 20/20 hindsight or in some cases 20/15

as I was putting the idea down on the keyboard it became more like a puzzle with each year filling in the missing pieces and each need upgraded or replaced. a couple more observations the talent level really dropped off after mid second round or so last year (as I indicated in thread #1) I also feel while the top of this years draft class is nowhere near last year there is more talent well into the 3rd or even 4th round which makes it seem kinda flat. but for team with lots of needs having multiple picks is a plus, this favored the Texans trading up. it was not easy to select players after the 2nd round who had significant impacts with their teams like Babin did, I simply selected a few of the brighter young players @ need positions who would have been available if the Texans retained all their picks. and it doesn't matter how you slice it the Texans gave up their 2nd round pick, which would have been the #33 pick for Hollings, thats just a fact Jack er' Sarg

yes it would be nice to already have a young guard & defensive tackle in our system to groom, but as many have already suggested on this board there are several good options into the 4th round and I would guess these two positions would be addressed this year.
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Old 04-04-2005   #10
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The biggest thing that scares me about this year's draft is looking back at the Babin trade from last year. Is Casserly thinking of a repeat?

I was of the opinion at the time that even if Babin was worth a 1st round pick, we were not a team that was only a players or two away. We could have used help all across the board, and even if the draft was perceived as weak, you still gamble that your 1st day draft picks may upgrade a position or two.

I really like the 2nd and 3rd round guys for harvesting talent. Its not uncommon for them to outplay 1st rounders and they cost a lot less.

But thank goodness for Dunta, talk about a bright spot!
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Old 04-04-2005   #11
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there isnt the best of top quality i think in the years draft that was in draft previous. In this draft their is depth. WR, CB, DE, RB all have good depth at those positions. This year we have 2 positions up for grabs. Then we need to add depth at those positions is that what makes this draft a plus for us. We only need 2 starters and then some people who can learn. If we trade down from 13 we can get depth at all of those positions. I think we will do the opposite of last year. Instead of trading up we will trade down.
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Old 04-04-2005   #12
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i hate to say it but the titans killed the texans on that trade. Starks laboy Flemming and Bell and waddell all played a ton and Bell and Starks look to be stars already. Babin was very ordinary. I think it is early to call this trade a bust but the titans are far ahead right now.
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Old 04-04-2005   #13
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Minnesota has been active in offseason they look desperate to make some kind of move if top 2 wideouts are gone by #7 and Williamson is their at #13 why not deal for #18 and their second rounder. Then maybe Ware,Pollack,TD, or Justin Miller is a Texan plus use that 2nd for a WR that probably ends up better than Williamson probably Reggie Brown.
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Old 04-04-2005   #14
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on the titanscentral web site they are talking about pulling off another 4 for 0ne with philly moving up to 6 to get benson. They say it was on Sirius and some of their big posters are confirming it.
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Old 04-04-2005   #15
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that might happen. I am not sure who is going to trade up or trade down obcourse none of us do but i am 85% sure that if no trades happen it will go this way,
1. Rodgers
2. brown
3. Johnson
4. edwards
5. c. williams
6. pac-man
7. m. williams
8. rolle
after this... this is where it starts to get interesting. I dont think Redskins want to stay put.
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Old 04-04-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBoyTim
on the titanscentral web site they are talking about pulling off another 4 for 0ne with philly moving up to 6 to get benson. They say it was on Sirius and some of their big posters are confirming it.
I have heard that philly wants to trade Simon and like a 1st and #2 and move up into top 5 and get Mike Williams.
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