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Old 11-26-2010   #161
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Texans are currently tied for 7th in red zone scoring percentage (60.61%).

In 2009, they finished 13th with 52.46%. (click on "2009" column to line it up).
So what is CarrBombed talking about?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it.
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Old 11-26-2010   #162
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Would you have been happy if the Texans made the play-offs last season? That very well could have happened, & the team/Kubiak, wouldn't have done one thing different. What if the Ravens lost that week 12 OT game against the Steelers last year.... or the Colts wanted to win 16 games last year... or that Malaluga & Odom were able to play week 17 vs the Jets.

I don't know where you stand on it, but if the Texans would have made the play-offs because of any of those reasons, many posters on this board would be giving Kubiak credit for getting this team to the play-offs.
We can play the 'If Game' all day long. If the Patriots had needed that last game for playoff position, the season would've been another 8-8 result.

Yada yada yada

We can sit here and play patty-cake-scenario-bake to come up with all kinds of circumstances, but the fact remains that head coaches are held to ONE standard in this league, and that standard begins and ends with winning.

I think Kubiak has done a good job in a few areas of the team. But overall, head coaching is not one of those areas.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Both coaches were fired after being spanked by the Packers. 45-7 for the Cowboys, & 31-3 for the Vikings. Clear "proof" that those teams had given up on their coaches. Since that Cowboy firing, the Texans have lost:
29-23 to the Chargers
31-34 to the Jaguars &
30-27 to the Jets

On some goofy, never seen before crap..... The team is playing, & playing hard. We were in control of the Chargers game. We had the Jags game going to OT, with the momentum, & the Jets game was basically won.

Yes, everything that happens on the field is a reflection of Kubiak, but nothing (I don't believe) that happened in the last 4 weeks says, "Fire Kubiak right now."

He's got 6 games to pull a rabbit out of his arse...... let's see what happens.
My intention was not to compare point-for-point resumes of each coach, but rather the big picture idea of ownership holding head coaches accountable for the results that represent their body of work.

The whole "team quit" angle is not something I tend to elaborate on because it is based upon speculation and perception. Without behind the scenes access to the inner workings of a franchise and deeper insight into player mentalities, it's really just opinion.

But, if I were to accept your premise at face value for the sake of this conversation, and let's say that the Texans have not quit on their head coach, then effort is obviously not the issue here. It then comes down to preparation, game planning, schemes, play calling, and roster development. And in each case, the line of responsibility can be traced directly back to the coaching staff, which - as a whole - is representative of the guy in charge, Kubiak.

So the kids don't quit, they are just the wrong kids given the wrong set of instructions.

I do agree with you, though, in that they have six games. It would be a modern day NFL miracle story for the Texans to run the table against the rest of the schedule, but hey, I'll be there watching (and hoping), so let's wait and see what happens.

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If you don't think their play on the field has been better the last 4 weeks, I don't know what to tell you. Their record definitely hasn't gotten better, but I never said that it did.
In some regards I can see the case being made, but the consistently slow starts and inability to close games are deal breakers. They have not improved in any of those key areas.
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Old 11-26-2010   #163
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
But, if I were to accept your premise at face value for the sake of this conversation, and let's say that the Texans have not quit on their head coach, then effort is obviously not the issue here. It then comes down to preparation, game planning, schemes, play calling, and roster development. And in each case, the line of responsibility can be traced directly back to the coaching staff, which - as a whole - is representative of the guy in charge, Kubiak.
I'm convinced.

Excellent argument, though I don't think the Keep Kubiak Club can be swayed. Whatever increment improvements we saw in the past have ceased. Just when it seemed that the Texans had learned to win the close games (Skins, Chiefs), they revert back to their finding-a-way-to-lose manner. It's not working and only the rationailzations have changed. "Lose Kubiak and there goes the elite offense." As if another coach couldn't put together a productive offense with Andre, Arian, and Matt. And the latest, "You can't make a change because of the lockout". When in the same breath, they admit that the defensive staff and scheme must be re-vamped. There's no winning with these guys.

Nice effort, though.
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Old 11-26-2010   #164
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I'm convinced.

Excellent argument, though I don't think the Keep Kubiak Club can be swayed. Whatever increment improvements we saw in the past have ceased. Just when it seemed that the Texans had learned to win the close games (Skins, Chiefs), they revert back to their finding-a-way-to-lose manner. It's not working and only the rationailzations have changed. "Lose Kubiak and there goes the elite offense." As if another coach couldn't put together a productive offense with Andre, Arian, and Matt. And the latest, "You can't make a change because of the lockout". When in the same breath, they admit that the defensive staff and scheme must be re-vamped. There's no winning with these guys.

Nice effort, though.
Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.
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Old 11-26-2010   #165
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.
Well we can always say "let's just see what happens". You're always going to have to do that anyway. Doesn't mean you can't talk about things until after they have happened. If we just waited to see, there would be no talk about the draft until draft day, no talk about the season until week 1, and no talk about playoffs until January. Wouldn't make for a very interesting message board.
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Old 11-26-2010   #166
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
So what is CarrBombed talking about?
They were tops in the NFL at getting in the redzone and 13th in red zone scoring... They year before that even worse...the redzone production doesn't match their visits. This year has been better (mainly because of Foster), we just aren't getting down there as consistent as we did last season.
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Old 11-26-2010   #167
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.
I'm all for letting the season play out.

But no playoffs = Smithiak gone, lockout or no. Uncle BoB wont see it this way.

Let me tell you there's no way Uncle BoB could've been as mad as I was after the Tack MNF game last yr. Funny how a yr changes ones perceptions. This yr I wont even care if they lose to the Tacks while starting their 3rd string QB. I will just LOL. The Texans organization would be in better shape if they got blown out Sunday and just put the Smithiak regime out of its misery. IMHO

But I will never root for the Texans to lose. It's just not in my DNA.
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Old 11-26-2010   #168
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Default Re: keep kubiak

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB View Post
Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.
If Kubiak loses this Sunday (I actually think we roll the Titans) my gues is that he is essentialy done with the Texans. We would be 4-7 and heading to Philly for a 4-8 record. At that point, we are almost assured of a 7-9 or worse record. Six wins only and I would almost guarantee a change.

At 8-8 I think McNair may keep him, but a losing record is going to be tough to support.
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Old 11-26-2010   #169
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Default Re: keep kubiak

"keep kubiak"

I think "keep kubiak from wasting another season" sounds better.

Seriously though, I'm resigned to the fact that he's not going anywhere. We'll finish 8-8 and hopefully get a new defensive coordinator and staff if we're lucky.
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Old 11-26-2010   #170
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Default Give kubiak extension !!!

The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough
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Old 11-26-2010   #171
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Default Re: Give kubiak extension !!!

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Originally Posted by newtexan View Post
The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough
We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?
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Old 11-27-2010   #172
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Default Re: Give kubiak extension !!!

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We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?
I think we should start Malcom Sheppard.

By the way, please change your avatar.
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Old 11-27-2010   #173
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Default Re: Give kubiak extension !!!

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Originally Posted by TexCanada View Post
We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?
Yeah, it sucks that Kubiak (or any coach who gets fired) ends up being the scapegoat just because we can't clear house with the players.

I just believe we're snakebit either way. We're so screwed. This stuff that has happened to us over the last 9 years, it just doesn't happen. It defies all logic.

What a mess. What an utter mess.
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Old 11-27-2010   #174
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Default Re: keep kubiak

What if we just found a really good DC and let them completely take over the D? I know Kubiak isn't perfect in all things, even when you take the D completely away from him, but it would sure solve a lot of problems. And, NO, Kubiak should NOT have any say in who is chosen as DC. That's if he even stays.

Actually, that's probably what will happen, because of the whole lock-out thing.
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Old 11-27-2010   #175
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
What if we just found a really good DC and let them completely take over the D? I know Kubiak isn't perfect in all things, even when you take the D completely away from him, but it would sure solve a lot of problems. And, NO, Kubiak should NOT have any say in who is chosen as DC. That's if he even stays.

Actually, that's probably what will happen, because of the whole lock-out thing.
What does that say about your HC when he shouldn't have a say in the hiring of a DC? Pretty sad isn't it?

What's the point of even keeping the HC in that case? In a small way the same sort of situation Jim Zorn was in last year with the Redskins, perhaps not as bad but you get my point.
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Old 11-27-2010   #176
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Default Re: Give kubiak extension !!!

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
Yeah, it sucks that Kubiak (or any coach who gets fired) ends up being the scapegoat just because we can't clear house with the players.

I just believe we're snakebit either way. We're so screwed. This stuff that has happened to us over the last 9 years, it just doesn't happen. It defies all logic.

What a mess. What an utter mess.
It does happen......to losing franchises. The Saints and Bucs went through it for decades. There's no such thing as "being snake-bit". The problem is we have a loser running our team and then when they end up losing every year, we want to sit here and damn the bad luck....it's that whole definition of insanity thing. Good teams make the necessary moves and they make their own luck.

The Rockets are going through the same thing and people think they're snakebit......but they're not. Their problem is they keep anchoring their franchise to the bum foot of a broke down 7'6 china man and then wonder why their season goes nowhere when he goes down.

Games are not won or lost on one single play......We didn't lose to the Jags on that hail Mary pass and we didn't lose to the Jets on that last play. You give yourself better opportunities to win games through coaching and Kubiak has screwed the pooch big time with some of his coaching decisions (especially clock management). It also doesn't help when he sticks to the same failed scripted plays and doesn't get rolling on offense until after his team is in a hole.

If we fired Gary Kubiak we wouldn't be making him any kind of scapegoat....that's silly. This is a man who only has one winning (non playoff) season in 5 years of coaching. He won't be some sort of martyr when we let him go, he'll just be a nice guy who couldn't cut the mustard and a person who deserved to be fired. This is a results driven league and when you aren't producing any type of results, you get fired.
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Old 11-27-2010   #177
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Default Re: Give kubiak extension !!!

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Originally Posted by newtexan View Post
The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough
Those are Kubiak's players..... He's the one who keeps putting them into position to fail. You get a new coach and he's going to bring in his own guys, so in the end we'll get a new coach and new players. win, win.
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Old 11-27-2010   #178
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Default Re: keep kubiak

I find it interesting that on all the "Team <insert name>" threads, successful coaches are nitpicked to death as unsuitable to lead the Texans. At the same time, the model of mediocrity that is Team Kubiak is defended based on the team finally "getting it" and going on an unprecedented five or six game winning streak. Same song, different year.

Kubiak is rarely the best coach on the field on any given Sunday. Finding an upgrade isn't all that difficult.
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Old 11-27-2010   #179
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
They were tops in the NFL at getting in the redzone and 13th in red zone scoring... They year before that even worse...the redzone production doesn't match their visits. This year has been better (mainly because of Foster), we just aren't getting down there as consistent as we did last season.
Actually, this is off target for a couple of reasons.
1. From the same site, the Texans were listed as 6th (not tops) in Red Zone Opportunities, and 9th in Red Zone scoring for last year, so the discrepancy between Red Zone visits and Red Zone scoring last year wasn't nearly as large as the 1st & 13th rankings your post would have us believe.

2. The ranking of 13th from last year and 7th this year is based on percentage of visits that a TD was scored. Therefore, "getting in the redzone" isn't in any way shape or form a part of the stat. A team that had 10 Red Zone visits and 6 TD's would have the exact same ranking as a team with 50 visits and 30 TD's.

So yeah, we've improved, and yeah, we're not where anyone wants us to be, but by any measure, we were in the top half of the NFL last year, and the top 25% of the NFL this year when it comes to Red Zone Performance.
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Old 11-28-2010   #180
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Default Re: Give kubiak extension !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Those are Kubiak's players..... He's the one who keeps putting them into position to fail. You get a new coach and he's going to bring in his own guys, so in the end we'll get a new coach and new players. win, win.
Kubiak from day one has always been a great game planner.

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